Wednesday Writs: The Mess is Growing, So Here Are Links Edition

Em Carpenter

Em was one of those argumentative children who was sarcastically encouraged to become a lawyer, so she did. She is a proud life-long West Virginian, and, paradoxically, a liberal. In addition to writing about society, politics and culture, she enjoys cooking, podcasts, reading, and pretending to be a runner. She will correct your grammar. You can find her on Twitter.

You may also like...

36 Responses

  1. Oscar Gordon says:

    WW&: WHAT?! Nooooo, she’s totes legit constitutional scholar. Just like me!Report

  2. Oscar Gordon says:

    I will say that I think Mr. Cain had a good observation in another post.

    The parties have the ability to call up and deploy the kind of white shoe law firms that can bankrupt small countries just by answering the phone. The fact that we are not seeing the GOP deploy such a law firm in these challenges says something about all this.Report

    • greginak in reply to Oscar Gordon says:

      It seems like the fancy lawyers who have to lawyer in court want to protect their reputations and aren’t in on the fund raising grift. If they could get a big firm they would.Report

      • Three of the lawyers from Bush v. Gore are SCOTUS justices now. Skilled attorneys must not see the same upside here.Report

        • Kazzy in reply to Mike Schilling says:

          I would say you have the cause and effect reversed there.

          Bush — or those around him, at least — chose high profile firms that employed well educated and talented lawyers. It isn’t shocking that they fit the profile of eventual SCOTUS justices.

          Trump has chosen a bunch of clowns because he is thinks they’re brilliant. Anyone who would likely be considered for SCOTUS would not fit Trump’s temperament.Report

          • InMD in reply to Kazzy says:

            Meh I don’t think Mike is that far off. There are a lot of reasons people who make a living going in front of judges might avoid attaching themselves to this that did not did not apply to Bush v. Gore, whatever one thinks of the outcome.Report

            • Kazzy in reply to InMD says:

              But do you think the firms that took Bush’s case said, “This will land our lawyers on SCOTUS one day”? Because I don’t think that was it.

              Bush hired brilliant legal teams. Trump hired his dingbat crony yes-people.Report

              • InMD in reply to Kazzy says:

                I hear you. And you’re right, there’s a certain pedigree that is more likely to lead one to becoming a justice that has nothing to do with partisan leanings or personal loyalties. I’m just saying I’m not sure such people were available for this even if Trump wanted them.Report

              • Mike Schilling in reply to InMD says:

                Several of the highly respected firms originally that originally represented Trump withdrew. It’s not that he only wanted bozos, it’s that only bozos remain available.Report

              • Kazzy in reply to Mike Schilling says:

                True indeed. I suppose I was thinking more of the Bush legal team. I don’t think working that case got them to SCOTUS; I think them having SCOTUS potential was why they were on the case.Report

    • JS in reply to Oscar Gordon says:

      The Texas Solicitor General didn’t sign on to Paxton’s case.

      This was Paxton’s application for a pardon. (he is in rather deep legal trouble. He’s under felony indictment he’s been stalling from court for 5 years, and while under indictment apparently committed some fun new felonies by misusing his office, had the whistle blown on THAT, then fired all the whistleblowers)

      Of course the case itself is….well, the only way it’s more serious than the “kraken” nonsense is in that Paxton clearly wrote it himself, so the spelling is correct and he filed it in the correct court.

      The actual legal gist is such that….well, for one, Texas’ own election would be nullified. I’m not aware of any state that’s ever held an election that would pass scrutiny under Paxton’s argument. If it were even vaguely possibly it’ll get more than “HA! NO!” from the Supreme Court (or perhaps “NO! HA!”), I suspect California or NY might file a brief asking Texas’ election be nulled, and adding on that their Senate and House candidates shouldn’t be allowed either.Report

      • Oscar Gordon in reply to JS says:

        Is Paxton under Federal indictment?Report

        • Philip H in reply to Oscar Gordon says:

          July 2020 marks five years since Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton was indicted on felony securities fraud charges. The criminal case against him has been a cloud over his head during nearly all of his time in statewide office, including a narrow reelection win in 2018.

          Yes, yes he is.

          https://www.texastribune.org/2019/06/19/ken-paxton-criminal-case-timeline-texas-attorney-general-fraud/Report

          • Oscar Gordon in reply to Philip H says:

            OK, follow up question:

            Is there a consensus on whether or not a President can pardon someone BEFORE they are actually convicted of a crime?Report

            • Marchmaine in reply to Oscar Gordon says:

              Yep.

              Ford pre-emptively pardoned Nixon.

              “Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.”Report

            • JS in reply to Oscar Gordon says:

              It’s been done. It hasn’t been tested, but it’s been done.

              Flynn, for instance was actively trying to withdraw his guilty plea so he hadn’t been convicted. Nixon, of course.

              Every draft dodger that Carter pardoned. (That was Carter, right?). 99.99% hadn’t been charged, much less convicted.Report

      • Philip H in reply to JS says:

        The President has promised to intervene and SCOTUS has asked for responses from the states named. They may well dismiss, but its not playing out as the slam dunk Pennsylvania suggested it would be.Report

        • JS in reply to Philip H says:

          Yes., yes it is. It’s actually worse than the Kelly case.

          Kelly had at least a vaguely coherent stab at standing.

          Paxton’s attempt is worse, and moreover would open an even larger can of worms than the PA case. A can that SCOTUS doesn’t want opened and, to be honest, neither does Paxton.

          Or at least neither does Texas.

          It only looks “more serious” in that SCOTUS has original jurisdiction not appellate, so they have more motions to go through.Report

  3. Michael Cain says:

    WW2: Colorado removed the cap on the number of people that can attend church services, weddings, and funerals. They’re still required to maintain six-foot spacing between people from different households.

    WW7: I now live about 3.5 miles west of Weld County. It’s an interesting juxtaposition. The Fort Collins metro area — Larimer County — where I am is already much more liberal than Weld is and getting more so. I don’t know if this NYTimes story was posted: it lists the US metro areas with more than 250,000 people with the biggest voter swings away from Trump. Four of the top ten were from Front Range Colorado. I’ve said for at least the last couple of years that the Trump administration was making a whole series of decisions that looked like they were designed to piss off the Front Range suburbs. The top three are Colorado Springs, Fort Collins, and Denver. The People’s Republic of Boulder — which had limited room to swing — was tenth.Report

  4. Philip H says:

    So what do we make of SCOTUS asking for responses from the states named in Paxton’s action? The ultraright sure seems to think it means SCOTUS is about to upend everything – given their swift dismissal of the Pennsylvania action yesterday they would have ramped this off equally as quickly.Report

    • Oscar Gordon in reply to Philip H says:

      Pennsylvania filed a response to the recently dismissed lawsuit, so I suspect that SCOTUS is doing something similar.

      Also, IIRC, suits between states fall squarely in their wheelhouse, so they have to take it seriously.Report

    • Michael Cain in reply to Philip H says:

      The ultraright is crazier than I thought if they believe that there are five votes on SCOTUS to overturn elections based on “Pennsylvania’s General Assembly exceeded its powers by unconstitutionally allowing no-excuse absentee voting, including for federal offices, in the election.”Report

      • Chip Daniels in reply to Michael Cain says:

        Why shouldn’t they be optimistic?
        They have something like 200 Republican Congressmen who are unable to say that Trump lost.

        There is no “too far, too crazy” anymore in the Republican party.Report

      • Philip H in reply to Michael Cain says:

        Were I the AG’s in those states I’d find a way to point out in my filing that the Texas AG has been charged with federal securities crimes and whistle blower retaliation and shouldn’t be listened to.

        But that’s just me.Report

      • Oscar Gordon in reply to Michael Cain says:

        Hell, SCOTUS probably just looked at it, noticed that the legislature gave everyone 180 days to file suit against the change, grabbed a calendar, did some basic math, and came up with a number > 180.Report

      • Brandon Berg in reply to Michael Cain says:

        I seem to recall quite a few leftists who expressed great confidence that Barrett was going to be the final vote needed to hand Trump victory in this election. Possibly some among the regulars here, though I could be getting mixed up on that point.Report

        • I also don’t recall about here at OT. Certainly there are significant numbers of the Lawyers, Guns & Money commentariat who believed that with Barrett on the Court the Justices would simply overturn the entire election. Even there those were the extremists. Most believed it would be done if it were like Florida in 2000, one state and very close (hundreds not tens of thousands of votes).

          I think I’ve been consistent in saying that there are at least five members of the current SCOTUS who will hold vote by mail and broad absentee ballot usage constitutional: Breyer, Kagan, Sotomayor, Roberts because being CJ of a Supreme Court that’s broadly accepted as fair is much more fun, and Gorsuch because he’s the westerner and would like to be able to visit his family here without people spitting at him.

          Prediction: Next week they rule that Texas lacks standing to sue other states over their election practices.Report

    • Michael Cain in reply to Philip H says:

      17 states have filed an amicus brief supporting Texas.Report

    • Em Carpenter in reply to Philip H says:

      That’s pretty standard. It doesn’t speak to the Court’s view on the merits. Kind of like how people were all “boom! Docketed!!” When that’s essentially like getting proof your certified letter was received.Report

      • Em Carpenter in reply to Em Carpenter says:

        To elaborate: a party against whom a petition for certiorari is filed has 30 days to respond. The court’s order is requiring it be done more quickly, because the nature of the suit is such that time is of the essence. The Court wants to make a decision without having to wait 30 days.Report

  5. greginak says:

    Well at least trumps soft tiny coup attempt is incompetent and buffonish. Which clearly is. It would bad otherwise. Nothing to see here, move along.Report