Matt Yglesias had a few words on this subject about six months ago. He wrote,
"The conservative view that the United States is the home par excellence [of social mobility] is interesting because I’m pretty sure it’s something they’re not lying about. It’s a source of genuine confusion. But as Matt [Zeitlin] says, it’s completely false...."
Yglesias links to two studies, one from the Federal Reserve, the other from CAP, that indicate low levels of mobility. He concludes,
"Still, the facts are the facts. The ex ante level of inequality in the United States makes social mobility hard, and we’re not doing anything like the kinds of investments in child nutrition, early education, etc. that could make up for it ex post."
Obviously, I'm no lawyer. But I wonder if Romer v. Evans might offer some glimmer hope that SCOTUS could rule in favor of the plaintiffs if the Prop 8 case gets to them.
"Policy-makers on the right should push to reform entitlements into safety nets for those who need them most: not the middle or upper class, but the working poor and the unemployed."
I'm waiting for that sort of sentiment to find expression in the Republican or Tea Party platforms. For that matter, the Democrats platform.
Perhaps, if/when the poor start voting in large numbers something like that could happen. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
@BootsYour comment regarding the village brought to mind the article in the NYT on cyber bullying. It is a clear example of the debate between societal, school, responsibility vs. parental responsibility. A fraught issue, but, IMO, the general question of village involvement is settled. It does take a village. Debate will center on the desirability of of particular of involvement.
Try the Silversun Pickups. Two albums. Both rock, turn-up the volume. Yes, they sound like Smashing Pumpkins, particularly the first album, but so what? The first time I listened to "Lyazy Eyes," on the radio, I thought it was new Pumpkins music.
Really a lot of AOR out there.
Wilco, Sky Blue Sky.
Spoon, Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga. Once that album slips into my player it's in there for repeated plays.
@Rufus,
this will be my first and last comment till the discussion commences. It's a good way to catchup on WWE and Jerry Springer shenanigans, blow-by-blow, if you don't watch them. Yikes!
E.D., I'm implying *no such thing,* I almost added what I'm about to say to the reply to Mike Farmer. So....
Remember, that old saying says nothing about the person "knowing." For me it speaks to the closed nature of many systems. To gain entry one often needs a person in power to give a hand up. It would be nice if merit, knowing, were the only requirement for entrance, sadly, it is not.
E.D., I have many issues with your politics but no issue with your intelligence. A know-nothing??? Sorry, not even close.
(In any case, I suspect you were teasing with that question .)
@North and Berry, speaking of Bush II, a recent poll of 200 plus historians has him pegged as the worst president of the modern era and in the bottom five of all time worst. Way to go George.
"...but I imagine the actual composition of the movement is far more complex." E.D. Kain
Here is the opening paragraph from a Gallup poll released today:
"There is significant overlap between Americans who identify as supporters of the Tea Party movement and those who identify as conservative Republicans. Their similar ideological makeup and views suggest that the Tea Party movement is more a rebranding of core Republicanism than a new or distinct entity on the American political scene."
@Jaybird, well I clearly do not share your view regarding equivalency but I’m very use to that trope around here. No, the theocons and neocons and just plain old cons scare me a lot more than tax and spend liberals.
And why bring morality into it? Your views differ from mine but I would never accuse you of holding immoral positions.
Venial? I don't understand that at all. Venial to me denotes something of little or no importance, something easily forgiven. I'm sure you will set me straight on how you are using it.
@Jaybird, Here is where I saw you in agreement with BB, "I would say that TPM members have much more in common with social conservatives that welcome government intervention as long as it’s in support of their agenda.”
I saw your, "They’re just populists who want their own morality imposed on others," as substantially in agreement with Bartlett.
"What I think this poll shows is that taxes and spending are not by any means the only issues that define TPM members; they are largely united in being unsympathetic to African Americans, militant in their hostility toward illegal immigrants, and very conservative socially. At a minimum, these data throw cold water on the view that the TPM is essentially libertarian. Based on these data, I would say that TPM members have much more in common with social conservatives that welcome government intervention as long as it’s in support of their agenda."
On “A Response to Paul Krugman”
OK, I'm old. So tell why the fuck link to Tupac? I'm sure it's cool and the smart kids get it. But, I'm old.
On “Childhood poverty in America”
Matt Yglesias had a few words on this subject about six months ago. He wrote,
"The conservative view that the United States is the home par excellence [of social mobility] is interesting because I’m pretty sure it’s something they’re not lying about. It’s a source of genuine confusion. But as Matt [Zeitlin] says, it’s completely false...."
Yglesias links to two studies, one from the Federal Reserve, the other from CAP, that indicate low levels of mobility. He concludes,
"Still, the facts are the facts. The ex ante level of inequality in the United States makes social mobility hard, and we’re not doing anything like the kinds of investments in child nutrition, early education, etc. that could make up for it ex post."
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/2010/01/social-mobility-in-america/
On “Prop. 8 and the Future”
Obviously, I'm no lawyer. But I wonder if Romer v. Evans might offer some glimmer hope that SCOTUS could rule in favor of the plaintiffs if the Prop 8 case gets to them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romer_v._Evans
On “Childhood poverty in America”
"Policy-makers on the right should push to reform entitlements into safety nets for those who need them most: not the middle or upper class, but the working poor and the unemployed."
I'm waiting for that sort of sentiment to find expression in the Republican or Tea Party platforms. For that matter, the Democrats platform.
Perhaps, if/when the poor start voting in large numbers something like that could happen. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
On “The future of the American family”
@BootsYour comment regarding the village brought to mind the article in the NYT on cyber bullying. It is a clear example of the debate between societal, school, responsibility vs. parental responsibility. A fraught issue, but, IMO, the general question of village involvement is settled. It does take a village. Debate will center on the desirability of of particular of involvement.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/28/style/28bully.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=cyber%20bullying&st=cse,
On “Honor and the past”
Try the Silversun Pickups. Two albums. Both rock, turn-up the volume. Yes, they sound like Smashing Pumpkins, particularly the first album, but so what? The first time I listened to "Lyazy Eyes," on the radio, I thought it was new Pumpkins music.
Really a lot of AOR out there.
Wilco, Sky Blue Sky.
Spoon, Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga. Once that album slips into my player it's in there for repeated plays.
Radiohead, OK Computer and Kid A.
I could go on and on.
On “Site issues”
Since the topic is site issues - why are some comments delayed "awaiting moderation"?
Boo-hiss.
On “The future of the American family”
Here is a take on the village non-question.
"Ryan and Jethá's central contention is that human beings evolved in egalitarian groups that shared food, child care, and, often, sexual partners."
Shocking! Not so much.
http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Dawn-Prehistoric-Origins-Sexuality/dp/0061707805/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277744526&sr=8-1
On “Site issues”
@Rufus,
this will be my first and last comment till the discussion commences. It's a good way to catchup on WWE and Jerry Springer shenanigans, blow-by-blow, if you don't watch them. Yikes!
"
@Rufus, thanks.
Have the book. The first chapter was interesting.
"
E.D., I don't know if this is a site issue or just a problem I'm having.
The suggested book club reading, Empire of Illusion, seems to have vanished. Any info on this?
Thanks.
On “The future of the American family”
@E.D. Kain, guess I guessed incorrectly.
You disagree with my interpretation?
"
E.D., I'm implying *no such thing,* I almost added what I'm about to say to the reply to Mike Farmer. So....
Remember, that old saying says nothing about the person "knowing." For me it speaks to the closed nature of many systems. To gain entry one often needs a person in power to give a hand up. It would be nice if merit, knowing, were the only requirement for entrance, sadly, it is not.
E.D., I have many issues with your politics but no issue with your intelligence. A know-nothing??? Sorry, not even close.
(In any case, I suspect you were teasing with that question .)
"
Mike Farmer, the name of the game might be older than the current networking trope.
We formerly put it this way, "It's who you know, not what you know."
"
"Reihan has a fascinating post...."
And:
"I think this is especially true of Reihan, whose wonkish blog over at NRO can only be described as a sort of positive conservatism."
Well, I guess those big-wet-sloppy-kisses are in order since Reihan helped get you published over at NRO.
I kid!
On “Toward a positive conservatism”
@Bob, sorry, Barry.
"
@North and Berry, speaking of Bush II, a recent poll of 200 plus historians has him pegged as the worst president of the modern era and in the bottom five of all time worst. Way to go George.
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/07/01/scholars-bush-worst-president/#comments
"
"...but I imagine the actual composition of the movement is far more complex." E.D. Kain
Here is the opening paragraph from a Gallup poll released today:
"There is significant overlap between Americans who identify as supporters of the Tea Party movement and those who identify as conservative Republicans. Their similar ideological makeup and views suggest that the Tea Party movement is more a rebranding of core Republicanism than a new or distinct entity on the American political scene."
http://www.gallup.com/poll/141098/Tea-Party-Supporters-Overlap-Republican-Base.aspx
On “Toward an organic society”
@silentbeep, not all libertarians found the cartoon as amusing as you. PZ posted a followup yesterday.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/06/annoying_libertarians.php#comments
"
@silentbeep, here are some possible "strange idiosyncratic disaffected liberaltarian" [sic] types E.D. might pick from.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/06/a_taxonomy_of_libertarians.php#comments
On “And You Thought That French McDonald’s Ad Was Edgy”
Update I
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/27/paris-mens-fashion-weeks_n_627199.html#s106866
On “Toward an organic society”
Jaybird, after sleeping on it, I think I realize what you were saying regarding venial. I guess you are saying they can be a petty as anyone.
"
@Jaybird, well I clearly do not share your view regarding equivalency but I’m very use to that trope around here. No, the theocons and neocons and just plain old cons scare me a lot more than tax and spend liberals.
And why bring morality into it? Your views differ from mine but I would never accuse you of holding immoral positions.
Venial? I don't understand that at all. Venial to me denotes something of little or no importance, something easily forgiven. I'm sure you will set me straight on how you are using it.
"
@Jaybird, Here is where I saw you in agreement with BB, "I would say that TPM members have much more in common with social conservatives that welcome government intervention as long as it’s in support of their agenda.”
I saw your, "They’re just populists who want their own morality imposed on others," as substantially in agreement with Bartlett.
"
Bruce Bartlett shares your view,
"What I think this poll shows is that taxes and spending are not by any means the only issues that define TPM members; they are largely united in being unsympathetic to African Americans, militant in their hostility toward illegal immigrants, and very conservative socially. At a minimum, these data throw cold water on the view that the TPM is essentially libertarian. Based on these data, I would say that TPM members have much more in common with social conservatives that welcome government intervention as long as it’s in support of their agenda."
http://capitalgainsandgames.com/blog/bruce-bartlett/1768/tea-party-extremism
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.