Russian Influence Indictment: Read It For Yourself

Related Post Roulette

15 Responses

  1. Philip H
    Ignored
    says:

    Russia, Russia, Russia …

    I feel like I have seen this story before. Or something really really close to it.Report

    • Pinky in reply to Philip H
      Ignored
      says:

      Do you remember that Mueller found no collusion between the 2016 Trump campaign and Russia?Report

      • Philip H in reply to Pinky
        Ignored
        says:

        Mueller spent almost 200 pages describing “numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign.” He found that “a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.” He also found that “a Russian intelligence service conducted computer-intrusion operations” against the Clinton campaign and then released stolen documents.

        While Mueller was unable to establish a conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians involved in this activity, he made it clear that “[a] statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean there was no evidence of those facts.” In fact, Mueller also wrote that the “investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts.”

        https://time.com/5610317/mueller-report-myths-breakdown/

        What Mueller found was insufficient evidence to make federal charges of conspiracy – which is a crime – while documenting significant activities, relationships and communications that would in fact describe collusion – which s not a federal crime.

        collusion, noun – secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose

        https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/collusion

        The interactions of Russia and the Trump campaign in 2016 were definitely things they tried to keep secret, and were definitely deceitful even if not criminal. This time, the Russians happily crossed the line.Report

        • Pinky in reply to Philip H
          Ignored
          says:

          You and I both know that if the shoe were on the other foot, say like with Hillary Clinton, you’d be saying that she was investigated however many times and never charged with anything.Report

          • Philip H in reply to Pinky
            Ignored
            says:

            Funny that – You claimed Mueller found no collusion, I told reminded you he wasn’t attempting to find something that’s not chargeable under the federal criminal code, and you pivot to Hillary Clinton. We do have several investigations into her during her state department days by both Trump’s DOJ and the GOP controlled House before them, and she wasn’t referred for charging in any of them. There’s even a significant amount of evidence that the FBI publicly reopening an investigation into her laptop weeks before the election is one of several reasons she lost.

            Mueller did charge and try a number of individuals he encountered during his investigation. Many of whom were convicted. He didn’t charge Trump because he was President by that time, and the DoJ still won’t charge or try sitting Presidents. By the time Trump left office, there were more pressing things to try him for, which has already resulted in his conviction on 34 state felony charges, as well as civil adjudication of him being a Rapist; him receiving two significant judgements for defamation of the woman who alleged the rape; and a civil judgement of fraud against his company.

            So no, Sec. Clinton and Pres. Trump are not equivalent cases. And again, Mueller didn’t find prosecutable conspiracy, which means nothing regarding whether there was collusion.

            You, of course know all this, but are happy to misdirect away from the interference of Russia in our elections – the now indicted interference in a second election – because as much as you dislike Trump, you like the GOP’s policy proposals that would accompany him. If Russia helps those goals come to fruition, you won’t argue.Report

  2. Burt Likko
    Ignored
    says:

    Two observations about this.

    First of all, the RT memo (assuming we credit it with authenticity and I see no reason not to) first eliminates the notion that there is a sufficiently “pro-Putin” constituency within US culture to develop, so it determines that the next best thing for Russian interests to do is to foster dissension, disunity, distrust, and political paralysis. To that end, it identified a constellation of arguments and concepts to advance into the American cultural consciousness, which would create the distrust and political paralysis Russia would need to force America to effective (although not official) neutrality. Concepts which happen to dovetail very closely with social conservative talking points.

    Secondly, these guys are taking the position that they had no idea at all that it was Russian money paying them to push those exact same talking points out into the culture, that no one told them what to write or think, they believe all those things all on their own. Which means, if true, they somehow decided that they would advocate the exact same things that Russia thought would cause the most harm, friction, and paralysis in our culture. And indeed they saw and relished in the contentiousness they caused. Dozens of tweets from Tim Pool talking about a new civil war in America are still readily findable. That’s what they sold, and they knew they were selling it.

    The only real question is did they know their sales commissions were being subsidized by Russia? We can choose to disbelieve them about their awareness that they were being paid by someone to push these ideas, even if we credit that they didn’t know it was Russia that was doing it. I have a hard time thinking that they really believed the advertising from Tenet Media and their own ventures partnered with Tenet was even close to enough to come up with the money they were making.

    They were either traitors or whores, and they’re trying hard in their public statements to deny being whores. “We’re just inconsequential idiots who didn’t know what was going on, please don’t pay attention to us smol beans,” is not a particularly great defense in my book.Report

  3. Pinky
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ve listened to Matt Christiansen for years. He joined Tenet Media last year. His show changed format a bit, and I’ve fallen off watching it, but I have a lot of respect for his integrity and opinions. I’ve recommended him before, and barring any shocking news, I’d recommend him still.Report

  4. Saul Degraw
    Ignored
    says:

    Russia paid for Rubin and Pool even though it knew they were not likely to be financially successful:

    Chen then solicited Commentator-1 — Dave Rubin — and Commentator-2 — Tim Pool— to work for the imaginary Eduard Grigoriann, drawing from a shortlist of candidates sent by one of the Russian personas. However, both Rubin and Pool demanded a lot of money. The indictment alleges Rubin wanted close to $5 million per year to create content for Tenet, and Pool wanted “100k per weekly episode to make it worth his while.” Chen warned the Russian persona that it would not be profitable to employ either of them, but the persona responded that they would love to move forward. In other words, Chen knew full well that their backers were willing to throw large sums at right-wingers with no hope of achieving a profitable return, a move that would be very odd for an actual business.

    For a brief moment, it looked like Rubin might have been smart enough not to work for a completely unknown entity with cash to burn. The indictment shows that he inquired more than once about who Eduard Grigoriann was and wanted to know about the company and who he would be working with. However, he did not need much convincing, as there was no particularly robust effort to make Grigoriann’s existence believable.

    https://www.publicnotice.co/p/russia-indictment-tim-pool-benny-johnson-rubinReport

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *