Lots of Lingering Questions on the Trump Immunity Ruling
Call it irony. Three days before America celebrates shaking off the rule of the British king, the Supreme Court releases a decision that many say grants the president authoritarian powers and makes him all but unaccountable to the law.
I’ll be honest. I sort of expected this. It’s logically obvious that the president has to have immunity for some of his acts as head of the government. For instance, ordering the bombing of a foreign country would be illegal for a private citizen, but it’s part of the president’s job as commander-in-chief. On the other hand, I did not expect the Court to offer immunity as broad as it did.
Let’s take a look at what the majority decided. (You can read the decision here.)
Contrary to what you may have heard (from both sides), the Court did not grant Donald Trump absolute immunity. Instead, Chief Justice Roberts describes three different levels of immunity that can apply to the president depending on the action taken.
First, there is conclusive immunity, which is absolute immunity. However, conclusive immunity only applies to the “President’s exercise of his core constitutional powers.”
Roberts cites examples of these core powers, saying, “They include, for instance, commanding the Armed Forces of the United States; granting reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States; and appointing public ministers and consuls, the Justices of this Court, and Officers of the United States.”
Second, Roberts writes, “As for his remaining official actions, he is entitled to at least presumptive immunity.”
In other words, the president may not be immune from prosecution for other acts, but he is presumed to be so. The implication is that the burden of proof is on the prosecution to pierce the shield of immunity.
As Roberts explains, “At a minimum, the President must be immune from prosecution for an official act unless the Government can show that applying a criminal prohibition to that act would pose no ‘dangers of intrusion on the authority and functions of the Executive Branch.’”
Third, “as for a President’s unofficial acts, there is no immunity,” Roberts writes.
Ultimately, the Court remands most of the charges against Trump back to the lower court where it directs JudgeTanya Chutkan to assess whether prosecuting would intrude on executive authority and whether they involve official acts that might be covered by immunity or unofficial acts for which there is no immunity.
Roberts provides guidelines, saying, “In dividing official from unofficial conduct, courts may not inquire into the President’s motives. Such a ‘highly intrusive’ inquiry would risk exposing even the most obvious instances of official conduct to judicial examination on the mere allegation of improper purpose. Nor may courts deem an action unofficial merely because it allegedly violates a generally applicable law.”
So a president’s actions must be both unlawful on their face and unofficial to not fall under either conclusive or preclusive immunity.
The exception is the president’s discussions with the Acting Attorney General about overturning the 2020 election results. The Court held that these discussions “are readily categorized in light of the nature of the President’s official relationship to the office held by that individual.”
The Court also held that it is a core constitutional power for the president to fire cabinet members at will. Thus, when Trump threatened to fire Acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen when he resisted Trump’s efforts, Trump was covered by conclusive immunity.
On the other hand, the Court left open the door to prosecution based on Trump’s discussions with Vice President Pence about using Pence’s role as president of the Senate to alter the outcome of the Electoral College vote. The Court did not rule on whether these discussions were official acts and remanded the question to the lower court.
Roberts concludes the majority opinion by saying, “The President enjoys no immunity for his unofficial acts, and not everything the President does is official. The President is not above the law. But under our system of separated powers, the President may not be prosecuted for exercising his core constitutional powers, and he is entitled to at least presumptive immunity from prosecution for his official acts. That immunity applies equally to all occupants of the Oval Office.”
The president may not be above the law, but the Court did just make it measurably harder to prosecute illegal activity by Oval Office occupants. The impact of the ruling will be felt most immediately in the Trump prosecution, but the long-term effects may be more consequential.
There is a legitimate concern about tit-for-tat prosecutions by competing presidents and parties. Just look at the Republican push to find something – anything – to impeach and prosecute President Biden for in retaliation for the Trump impeachments and prosecution. But I am concerned that the Court drew the protective line of presidential immunity too large.
There are lots of lingering questions. For example, the president is the commander-in-chief of the military so is it a core constitutional power to “order the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival?” Justice Sotomayor argues in her dissent that the majority seems to be saying that immunity would apply here. Or would that be considered an unofficial act despite the president’s constitutional role?
Trump supporters celebrating the ruling should consider Roberts’ statement that “immunity applies equally to all occupants of the Oval Office.” Joe Biden is president right now. Could he legally order a drone strike on Mar-a-Lago and be covered by conclusive immunity as a sitting president exercising core constitutional powers?
David French offers a different scenario. The Insurrection Act gives the president broad powers to deploy American soldiers domestically. What if a president lawfully orders troops into the cities and then, protected by conclusive immunity, issues unlawful orders such as declaring martial law and arresting the political opposition en masse?
For that matter, what if a president orders the military to commit war crimes? Donald Trump threatened to issue just such an order in 2020.
My instinct here is that the president might have immunity, but the members of the military and other nonpresidential officials would not. The preservation of our constitutional system may one day depend on the military and government officials refusing to follow unlawful orders. That refusal has its own risks and costs.
But wait, there’s more.
If you thought that the Court was just giving Donald Trump a pass and rubberstamping the Republican agenda, you might need to think again. I described recently how the conservative Court has been picking off right-wing legal theories, and just a few days ago, the Court dealt a blow to the executive branch plans of a potential second Trump Administration.
In a sleeper case, the Court overruled the Chevron deference doctrine, which had held that government bureaucracies were generally allowed to define the laws passed by Congress. This often led to wild swings in policy and bureaucratic law between different administrations, and Republicans had hoped to use the reinterpretation of laws as a cudgel to transform the federal government under Project 2025. The recent Supreme Court ruling serves as a notice that “courts may not defer to an agency interpretation of the law simply because a statute is ambiguous.”
The Trump immunity ruling is not the disaster that some say, but it definitely has problems and gaping holes that may turn out to be larger than the Chevron loophole by several orders of magnitude. In the short term, Trump’s prosecution is still alive and his quickly-filed challenge to his New York felony conviction will likely fall flat since a) he wasn’t president when he cooked the books and b) it wasn’t an official act. It is also difficult to see how retention of classified documents by a former president could be an official act of a sitting president.
On the other hand, Trump will certainly kill the federal prosecution against him if he wins.
The decision does mean that the very slight chance that Trump’s trial would be complete before Election Day has diminished into nothingness.
I’d like to see Congress address the presidential loopholes left by the Supreme Court, but it would take a big man in the Oval Office to help pass a constitutional amendment that would limit his own power. That man won’t be Donald Trump. There is no use starting such a movement before the election because Republicans won’t want to limit Trump’s power if he wins.
If Trump loses or when he is out of office and the Republican Trump Fever finally breaks, then maybe Congress will be able to fix the Court’s mistake and act to limit the abuse of presidential power. Both parties should want this because neither trusts the presidents from the other side. Hopefully, we’ll still have a country long enough to close the loophole.
In the meantime, the best course for voters is to carefully consider the candidates and don’t vote for people with a history of corruption and abuse of power. That’s especially true if they tell you that they plan to abuse their office. If they tell you that they are going to be a crook or dictator, believe them.
“In dividing official from unofficial conduct, courts may not inquire into the President’s motives.”
As a non-lawyer, this is one of the most perplexing pieces of all this. Inquiring into motive is absolutely essential to determining the nature of all kinds of actions. Motive is largely the difference between self-defense and murder. Motive is what makes a payment of money in exchange for a favor a bribe, rather than a gift (the money is literally intended to *motivate* the desired actor to the desired action).
If I want to know whether engaging in attempts to overturn election results are “official”, and thus immune from criminal prosecution, or “unofficial” and not-immune, then it sure seems to me that inquiry into motive (state of mind, the “why” etc.) is *crucial*.
I want to know if the person had good reason to believe there had been election fraud/error or legitimate questions of law or process (and thus, even if wrong, were acting in good faith, exactly as we would expect an officer of a democratic government to act); or if they were simply cynically trying to hold on to power by any means necessary and know good and well and for a goddamned fact that they lost.
To forbid inquiry into motive seemingly torpedoes the fact-finding process at its start. “This was caused by that” is at the heart of how we make determinations, whether you’re a jury or a judge or a homicide detective or a scientist.Report
Yup this right here. It gives the Prez a very special kind of immunity that would make many/most prosecutions impossible.Report
No no, that’s not what the court wants. The court (I am no longer going to capitalize the supreme court. I know it’s petty, but I’m done with this pretending it’s some sort of valid thing.) doesn’t want any examination of why anyone did anything, they have decided that there are entire parts of reality that the president cannot do illegally, no matter what the motive or what happens.
Which yes, do include killing people, and imprisoning people and pretty much any power that the president actually has in any sense, cannot be done illegally. He can be bribed to illegally detain someone, and because ‘detaining someone’ is part of his official powers, this cannot be questioned.Report
You see, they have to make it not depend on motive, because if it depended on motive, what Trump was doing is obviously invalid.
In fact, to be clear, what Trump was doing is probably not technically a crime anyway. It was merely being used as evidence of a crime, specifically, of evidence of his deliberate attempt to do a coup.
So they had to exclude motive, and they also had to exclude even talking about it in any manner, had to make it completely out of bounds, because otherwise it could still be used as evidence, even if there is immunity.Report
“I am no longer going to capitalize the supreme court. I know it’s petty, but I’m done with this pretending it’s some sort of valid thing.”
The leftist never respects institutions. He’ll merely use them when possible, and praise them when it gives him some benefit.Report
It is revolutionaries and insurrectionists who regard existing institutions as illegitimate.
Insurrectionists can be found in all corners of politics.Report
Revolutionaries = Good
Insurrectionists = Bad
I don’t know why you can’t keep this straight.
My side has Revolutionaries who want to change things in the name of Progress.
Your side has Insurrectionists who want to change things but they want to change them in a Reactionary fashion to a thing that never existed.
Until the Supreme Court is repaired, it won’t be capable of Progress. We have to change it back to the state when it was.Report
George Washington and Vladimir Lenin were both revolutionaries. One revolution turned out to be good, one turned out to be bad.
The fact that all revolutionaries see themselves as good is why it is important to look past the lofty rhetoric and see what it is that they want to do.
In our current political moment, the Democrats are defending the status quo and existing institutions, and the Republicans are the revolutionaries attempting a restoration of the status quo ante.
This is why we keep mentioning Project 2025 and Trump’s promises to be a dictator and use the power of government to persecute his enemies because it shows which kind of revolution MAGA is.Report
Yeah, the worst would be getting behind a politician who uses the power of government to persecute enemies.
That would be tyranny.Report
So, you think the DoJ prosecutions of TFG are politically motivated? Good to know.Report
No.
He did NOT say that.
Remember, he has said repeatedly he doesn’t have any insightful or interesting ideas about American politics.
No arguments to make, no points to prove.
Comments like there are simply to offer observations, like “Donald Trump was convicted of crimes.”
How you choose to interpret the observation is up to you.Report
Yeah. Only partisans can have interesting ideas, we established.Report
You don’t believe that. Neither does Jaybird. If he’s not going to make clear, direct statements, I will continue to call him for it.Report
If the argument that we shouldn’t elect Trump because he’ll use the power of government to persecute his enemies, I think that that’s worth interrogating.
I mean… have you heard the argument that the people who make such arguments are projecting?
It’s not something that can be argued against with something as simple as responding with an eloquent “so you’re saying”.Report
He has openly said he wants to prosecute Joe Biden. He used to lead chants of “Lock her up” at rallies in the 2016 campaign. Not sure what to interrogate, nor why anyone would accuse liberals of projecting when those are direct quotes.
Never mind the Project 2025 language about purging the federal civil service of liberals and Democrats. Because – and this isn’t really a secret – the federal civil service already employs Republicans, and they haven’t been purged by the Biden Administration.Report
This should be obvious, but: he didn’t lock her up.Report
Only because he and his team couldn’t figure out how to do so.
And unlike 2016, we have to take him literally and seriously this time.Report
Also too-
Trump has been convicted by a jury of his peers of crimes.
No one has yet put forward any credible evidence of Biden being guilty of crimes.
This is where the BSDI stuff becomes absurdly stupid.
Of course all revolutionaries claim to be good; But objective evidence shows that some are good and some are not;
Of course tyrants and liberal democracies both prosecute officials; But objective evidence shows that some accused are guilty, while others are innocent.
From the standpoint of democracy and the rule of law, the Democratic candidate is objectively supportive, while the Republican candidate is objectively hostile.
This isn’t an opinion, its a demonstrable fact.
(Referencing my comment above, this is why Jaybird tries very, very hard to avoid making a actual argument, in defense of Trump and relies instead on the motte of “Just making observations.)Report
respect is earned, not just given.Report
If only there was a way to post pictures of Jan. 6, 2021.Report
Both sides have done it. One side is it. Leftism inherently rejects institutions. A stupid rightist may riot at the Capitol thinking he’s defending an institution. The average leftist will respect the institution of the Supreme Court only to the extent that the Court subverts the institution of the Constitution.Report
Leftists reject institutions?
Institutions like higher education?
Institutions like law enforcement and the judiciary?
Institutions like the military?
Institutions like government bureaucracy?
Institutions like schools?
Institutions like labor unions?
Institutions like small volunteer organizations like Scouts and PTA groups?
Liberals criticize these when they don’t perform their stated objectives.
Trumpists have attacked every single one of these and vowed to destroy them BECAUSE they performed their stated objectives.Report
more fall out. Expected as it is, but still fall out.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/03/politics/how-the-supreme-courts-immunity-ruling-can-help-donald-trump-fight-criminal-charges/index.htmlReport