The Weight of Society

Alysia Ames

Alysia lives in central Iowa with her husband and two daughters where she works as an accountant

Related Post Roulette

40 Responses

  1. Wow, great piece. Thanks for sharing it.

    I also see this sort of thing with women and smoking during pregnancy. People often chalk up smoking during pregnancy to a “lack of education” but there’s not a woman out there who doesn’t know that smoking during pregnancy is bad. They do it anyway. It’s not a question of being uninformed, they’re getting too much pleasure from smoking to give it up and/or the pain is too great to give it up, even temporarily. They know smoking is bad, they just hope that things will be ok despite that.

    With dieting, it’s even worse because you can’t quit eating cold turkey. The need to eat is always there, it never goes away, and several times a day you will encounter that temptation, no matter how diligently you structure your life to avoid it. Hunger is more than just “hunger pangs” – people feel weak, shaky, unable to function, overly emotional, and mentally dull when dieting. Ironically, thin people are more resistant to the side effects of calorie restriction than overweight people are because their insulin response is better. Dieting entails making yourself physically ill for months or even years at a time, in the promise that maybe someday you’ll feel a little bit better than you used to.

    You can’t diet very effectively when you’re working a physically challenging job all day, you can’t diet very easily when you’re doing shift work and you may only have five minutes to eat something to get you through another 6 hours. And even once a person does get the weight off, their metabolism has changed and even with lower food intake the weight comes back – “The Biggest Loser” proved that. https://www.health.harvard.edu/diet-and-weight-loss/lessons-from-the-biggest-loser

    We need a medical solution for obesity that isn’t as invasive as surgery, because the problem is biological, not lack-of-willpower-ogical. I’m not sure it’s Ozempic but I do think it’s a step in the right direction to view weight control thru a medical lens instead of a moral one.Report

    • I’m not sure it’s Ozempic but I do think it’s a step in the right direction to view weight control thru a medical lens instead of a moral one.

      Agree 100%Report

    • DensityDuck in reply to Kristin Devine says:

      Except we’ve tried to view weight control through a medical lens, and we always come back to “the answer is stimulants”, and then people take too much because they think it’s magic melt-away-the-pounds beans, and they develop problems from stimulant abuse, and the FDA — risk-averse at the best of times, and doubly so in the case of “lifestyle-related disorders” that they really believe Moral Temperate People wouldn’t have — says “okay that’s it, no more weight-loss drugs for you”. (And if the FDA doesn’t say it, product-liability lawsuits will.)Report

  2. DensityDuck says:

    It’s interesting that you bring up pain in this, because I’ve often thought that one of the reasons Americans seem to have a unique weight issue is that eating is a sensual activity, and Americans have a historical reticence to discuss sensual matters. So we just sort of pretend that eating food is a purely mechanical activity, or else we dress it up with infantile language (“flaky moist scrumptiousness”, “melt-in-your-mouth sweetness”) to try and turn away from those feelings.

    So. Imagine a sex-ed program that not only refused to discuss the enjoyable aspects of sex, but never even suggested those aspects existed. That wouldn’t be very effective a program…Report

  3. Damon says:

    There are multiple issues here:
    1) mankind is programed, as you mention, to view things from a perspective of scarcity. Random hominid wandering the plans and sees a dead animal. Reaction: gorge on meat. You may not eat it again for a month. Same with sweet things–CALORIES must have calories.

    This also applies to sex, but that’s a different thing 🙂

    Add in the cultural stuff, the ease of fast food, etc. and it ‘s a mess. People eat when depressed, stressed, bored, horny, etc.Report

    • North in reply to Damon says:

      Yeah biology is a bastard. But all our ancestors (well actually our Ancestors siblings) who could loose the weight easily died in the next wave of famines without passing on their genes and our actual ancestors were folks who would horde their fat calls and burn muscle instead the moment times got lean and shift their metabolisms to burn less fat when they got even a whiff of deprivation.

      And, now, so too do we. Sigh.Report

  4. Wagon says:

    Establishing my bona fides before I comment: I am 6’ 5”, 330 pounds. At my fattest, I was 455 pounds. 17 years ago I dropped a bunch of weight, have gotten down to 290 at my adult lowest. Was a fat kid. Have been fat my whole life.

    I tend to disagree with the trend of wholesale abandoning the “moral” approach for the “medical” approach. I get it. Shame is often counterproductive. People react to it in different ways. I understand, as I have and continue to do the comfort eating thing at times. But weight loss and sustainability is all about deferred gratification and thinking of others besides myself and my own desires, which absolutely are moral issues and a problem in many, many areas beyond weight loss.

    I have a wife and kids who depend on me. I have friends and two aging parents. I have responsibilities related to my career. I have civic responsibilities. Poor health makes me less likely to be able to fulfill those responsibilities and more likely to become a burden to others.

    At the end of the day, weight loss and health is about getting it through my thick skull that my own desires and gratification are less important than what I can and should do for others. That is a counter cultural idea in our society, on both the left and right. One side worships the market of self interest, the other worships self actualization and making one’s own truth.

    And yeah there’s a lot of stuff working against us. I work a desk job. The American diet is shit, for the most part. Junk food is designed to hit every pleasure receptor and addict us. But navigating obstacles is what life is. Like I tell my kids, most of life is doing hard things you don’t want to do. I don’t see weight loss and health as any different. It’s just about acknowledging reality (I can’t eat and drink anything I want at any time and forego all physical activity if I don’t want to have these negative consequences) and accepting responsibility (the problem starts with me and the decisions I make, not with anyone/thing outside me). Finding a motivation helps with that, and my kids are a good one.

    I put my bona fides for a reason. Because I get the shame. I feel it. But the thing is, I deserve it bc my choices have brought me to where I am. And when I see people on social media posting shit like “be fat inclusive” or showing morbidly obese people and saying “this is healthy,” I think some shame is appropriate and beneficial for us all.Report

  5. Brandon Berg says:

    I think you’re underestimating the role that dietary choices play in managing hunger. Yes, there are a handful of people who have some kind of genetic defect that causes the hormones regulating hunger and satiation not to work right, and as a result will never not be hungry, but that’s not what’s driving the obesity epidemic.

    There’s extensive evidence, which you can easily confirm anecdotally, that certain foods aggravate hunger and promote overeating. As a rule, it’s easier to overeat foods which contain a mix of fat and carbohydrates while being low in protein and fiber. Nobody binges on boiled potatoes, but french fries and potato chips are classic binge foods. Ice cream yes, butter no. Whole-grain bread no, donuts yes.

    When researchers want to induce obesity and diabetes in rodents, they feed them what’s called a high-fat diet, but is actually a diet with a mix of fat and carbohydrates. Lab rats won’t overeat low-fat lab chow, and they won’t overeat a ketogenic diet, but they’ll go nuts on HFD chow. Another diet that works to induce obesity and diabetes is the cafeteria diet, where mice get access to a variety of human junk food.

    That patient who ate a Big Mac and bag of Halloween candy probably doesn’t have some kind of genetic abnormality that makes it impossible to eat a 2,000-calorie diet without constantly suffering severe hunger pangs. It’s more likely that he overeats because his diet consists primarily of foods that promote overeating. Lock him up with nothing to eat but boiled potatoes, fish, and steamed vegetables, and he’ll fill up just fine on 2,000 calories per day, maybe less.Report

    • Lock him up with nothing to eat but boiled potatoes, fish, and steamed vegetables, and he’ll fill up just fine on 2,000 calories per day, maybe less.

      This may be true, it may not, but it doesn’t matter — in most cases, even locking up someone isn’t effective at restricting their dietary choices. A percentage of the workers at “fat farm” retreats get overwhelming incentives to smuggle in things like candy bars and potato chips and disrupt the carefully-structured diet because a corresponding percentage of the self-sentenced inmates quickly become driven to bribe them for these goodies.

      But most of the time, for most people, getting locked up to restrict dietary choices is something so undesirable that no one will voluntarily do it and of course imposing that on someone without their consent would be monstrous. So nearly everyone is free to navigate their world on their own and that means constant temptation by purveyors of fast food (debatable quality, but high in fat and carbohydrates, generally calorie-dense, and comparatively inexpensive and easy to access), junk food (same), and dessert foods (same, except moreso). We are free, not confined, and for all the reasons stated when we are free our willpowers all eventually fail and we succumb to making bad choices. A small number of people can get back on the wagon quickly but it turns out that most of us don’t.

      Willpower just isn’t going to do it. I’ve tried willpower and good food choices, I’ve tried ketogenic diets, and the social and biological forces described in the OP overwhelm me every time. I’m hopeful that Ozempic or some similar drug eventually becomes affordable and maybe that will supplement my willpower enough that I can stay on a weight loss journey for enough time to change the shape of my body in the direction that reason and logic and aesthetics tell me I ought.Report

      • Brandon Berg in reply to Burt Likko says:

        Sure, I get that it’s hard to resist the temptation to eat unhealthful foods, and I think it’s great that there’s medicine that can help with that. I’m just saying that hunger level is not, in fact, an immutable personal trait, and can be manipulated with diet.Report

  6. Pinky says:

    I’ve been going back and forth on this article for a while. I really like it. I disagree with some of it but I’m glad it was written. The answer to the conversation in the article and comments is bound to be “yes and also”, because there are several causes of weight problems, and I wouldn’t even rule out education. There’s always been as much bad and good information out there, and the internet era sure hasn’t dampened either.

    I’m always going to go back to the Greek and medieval philosophers, and note the distinction they made between fortitude, which is virtue in the face of actual or potential pain, and temperance, which is virtue in the face of actual or potential pleasure. On a practical level, it can be hard to distinguish between the two. For example, turning down a beer may be temperance for me but fortitude for an alcoholic. I don’t want to dismiss the difficulty in deliberate eating, but it probably doesn’t often rise to the level of causing pain, only forgoing pleasure. Even that is complicated though, because people often use food as a means of mitigating pain.

    Anyway, my point is that we shouldn’t overlook the moral dimension of weight loss. Our society doesn’t demand a lot of resolve from us, and McDonalds delivers now. If you asked 50 years ago “what could go wrong?” and then “what would the results be if all of it did go wrong?”, you’d have a picture of us standing on the scale.Report

  7. Jaybird says:

    As a person of substance, I asked my doctor about Ozempic.

    As it turns out, insurance only pays for it if you have diabetes.

    Who knew?Report

    • Philip H in reply to Jaybird says:

      That may not be the case for all insurance plans . . . and since the weight loss function is an off label use, discovered as a positive side effect of its diabetes treatment functions, there are no doubt liability considerations.

      But hey we still have private health insurance as a business segment instead of single payer so that’s something … I guess.Report

      • Jaybird in reply to Philip H says:

        Perhaps you’re right.

        Maybe we’d have been better off without this substance being discovered in the first place.Report

        • Philip H in reply to Jaybird says:

          how about you don’t go to catastrophic extremes just because our medical care delivery system isn’t up to snuff?

          Ozempic is a great drug and it appears to be doing real good for both diabetic people and overweight people. Unfortunately for that second group, the way we test, dispense and pay for drugs makes unintentional positive uses harder to implement. That suggest a system in need of severe reform, not a need to roll back the scientific process.Report

          • Jaybird in reply to Philip H says:

            If we could remove the “business segment” without removing “R&D”, that’d be great.

            I’ve not seen that demonstrated.

            As such, I’m noticing that we want to reduce the profit motive without reducing the stuff that creates such marvelous profits.Report

            • Philip H in reply to Jaybird says:

              What entity funds the vast majority of medical R&D in the US?Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Philip H says:

                According to the NIH:

                The other major funders of biomedical research are the for-profit pharmaceutical, biotechnology, and medical equipment industries, which have outspent NIH in recent years

                Report

              • Philip H in reply to Jaybird says:

                Well that’s 1999 data adjusted for 2004 inputs . . .

                That aside, the profit motive won’t be taken away by moving to single payer – which would potentially solve the problem that your insurance won’t cover a drug for off label prescribing for other positive benefits.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Philip H says:

                If you have more recent data, I would love to see it!

                Maybe we could get an answer to your question of “What entity funds the vast majority of medical R&D in the US?”

                Because, seriously, I think that that’s an interesting question and the answer will bolster one of our arguments and undercut the other.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Philip H says:

                Fascinating!

                These analyses suggest that NIH project costs for basic or applied research associated with the products approved from 2010 to 2019 were significantly greater than reported industry spending. Costs for the NIH were also higher than industry costs when both included spending on failed clinical trials of candidate products. Including clinical failures, NIH investment (calculated with either a 3% or 7% discount rate) was not less than industry investment calculated with a 10.5% cost of capital. Investment from the NIH calculated with clinical failures and a 3% or 7% discount rate was also not less than industry investment calculated with clinical failures, additional costs of prehuman research, and 10.5% cost of capital. These results suggest that NIH investments in pharmaceutical innovation are comparable with those made by industry.

                And the conclusion:

                This cross-sectional study found that NIH investment in drugs approved from 2010 to 2019 was not less than investment by industry, with comparable accounting for basic and applied research, failed clinical trials, and cost of capital or discount rates. The relative scale of NIH and industry investment may provide a cost basis for calibrating the balance of social and private returns from investments in pharmaceutical innovation.

                HA! All the NIH had to do was say “want some money?” enough times and, of course, industry drank it up.

                And now the NIH gets to say “We paid for it, we make the policy now.”

                Brilliant.

                Okey doke. I’m willing to accept the argument that since the NIH paid for at least 50%+$1 of it, that they now get to control it.Report

              • Philip H in reply to Jaybird says:

                My point wasn’t about control. It was to refute the notion that moving to single payer would kill off the profit motive for R&D of the kind that gave us Ozempic.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Philip H says:

                Only if single-payer kills the profits, I guess.

                For what it’s worth I’m reconciled to the idea that we’re going to have single-payer.

                I just know that it will also be attended by a couple dozen different tiers of health care and the publicly-available one will not be the “Gold Tier”.Report

              • Marchmaine in reply to Jaybird says:

                What if it’s ‘cosmetic’ tiers.

                Like, approvals and access to doctors is (more or less) the same, but the customer experience? Whooa, there’s a lot we charge for (and I’d pay).

                Now, the ‘more or less’ hides a lot; but there’s probably a way to say that all surgery facilities are the same and the doctor/surgeon doesn’t know who’s under the knife for any given procedure… but the waiting rooms and recovery rooms and everything else? That’s pay-go.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Marchmaine says:

                It strikes me that it’ll be a lot more like Public Education.

                Everybody gets equal treatment! No matter what hospital is in your district.Report

              • InMD in reply to Jaybird says:

                I think we need to distinguish here between payer and provider. It’s perfectly possible to have a public payer and private providers, which indeed is how Medicare and Medicaid work today, and how many countries that are not the UK design their healthcare systems. So Medicare For All is not necessarily VA Hospitals For All. However there is a real question of what happens to supply if you were to totally cut private payers out of the equation. Look into what providers and hospitals think about what Medicare or Medicaid reimburse today, for example. But there are ways of potentially getting all citizens insured without the potential provider quality problems you’re bringing up.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to InMD says:

                I do not think that it will be VA Hospitals For All.

                Just like Public Education doesn’t mean that every public school will be like the 0% Proficient ones in Baltimore.

                The Public Schools that I went to were great! I’d recommend them to everybody I know.Report

              • Brandon Berg in reply to Philip H says:

                It was to refute the notion that moving to single payer would kill off the profit motive for R&D of the kind that gave us Ozempic.

                If you’re just going to assert conclusions that clearly don’t follow from the evidence you present, why not go big? Say you linked the paper to demonstrate a cure for all cancer or prove that P = NP or something.

                In the US (and in all countries, AFAIK), scientific discoveries cannot be patented. As a result, there is limited incentive for private investment in basic scientific research, i.e. the discovery of facts about the natural world. For various reasons private companies do engage in this to some degree, but not as much as we would like.

                Now, we could change the law to allow patenting of scientific discoveries, so that if you discover that some protein in the human body is involved in a disease process, you get the exclusive right to develop therapies based on that discovery for the next 20 years. This is probably a bad idea, because it greatly reduces the incentive for other companies to research therapies based on that discovery.

                So we end up with a system where the government funds basic scientific research, and then anybody who wants to can try to develop therapies based on the discoveries yielded by this research.

                Note, from the paper you linked:

                Funding from the NIH totaled $187 billion; $31 billion (17%) represented applied research on approved drugs, and $156 billion (83%) represented basic research on drug targets.

                That’s actually more spending on applied research than I would have thought, and I wonder what exactly gets counted as applied research. But NIH spending on applied research is definitely much less than industry spends on drug development.

                The key thing to understand here is that the research funded by the NIH is not producing anything like a viable drug, but typically just documenting some aspect of human biology. A target is not a drug, and the process of developing a drug from a target is far from trivial. It’s extremely expensive, has high failure rates, and generally takes several years in the best-case scenario.

                So yes, unless the government takes over drug development, the ability to profit from selling drugs is crucial to ensuring that new drugs keep getting developed. The fact that the NIH (and other governments and charities) fund basic research does not make this any less true.

                As for what effect single-payer health care would have on the incentive to invest in drug development and clinical trials, this depends entirely on how it’s run. If it cheaps out and “negotiates” low prices for drugs, this will result in fewer new drugs. If maintaining the incentive to invest in drug development is an explicit goal that is actively promoted, it will not result in fewer drugs. It might result in more drugs. The flip side of this, of course, is that it will require spending more on drugs; IMO we underinvest in drugs and this would be a good thing on net.

                However, experience suggests that it won’t shake out that way. Countries with single-payer health care systems pay less for drugs than the US. And recently, old Bottom-Eighth Biden has been selling out future generations by “negotiating” lower prices for prescription drugs. I doubt that giving him and his ilk even more power over health care spending would result in more responsible behavior.Report

              • Chip Daniels in reply to Brandon Berg says:

                Biden has been selling out future generations by “negotiating” lower prices for prescription drugs

                Yes. You should totally run with this killer attack on Biden.

                Spread it far and wide, that Joe Brandon is negotiating lower prices for prescription drugs.

                We libs will be owned, totally owned.Report

              • InMD in reply to Chip Daniels says:

                Nothing is more diabolical than leftist plots to save the tax payer money.Report

              • Chip Daniels in reply to InMD says:

                The phrase “Dying of whiteness” comes to mind.Report

              • InMD in reply to Philip H says:

                I’m not sure that single payer necessarily solves it even if it could potentially. In that system the government would have to decide it was picking up the tab for the product, which it might, or it might not. Now, the leverage of having the might of hypothetically 320 million members to negotiate a drug price is very real but it does not answer the question of whether it’s covered. There are a number of systems that are more universal than ours where something like this probably wouldn’t be, at least not at the moment.Report

              • Marchmaine in reply to InMD says:

                The very best possible outcome would be some sort of accounting of the ‘full cost’ of developing new drugs (including funding the failures) as a new blockbuster comes online and paying what will look like exorbitant prices to recoup the costs of the new drug and the failed drugs, plus fund future R&D plus profits…

                It becomes a sort of regulated industry, like, say, Power Companies. BUT, we have a lot of real world data on the gaps that come with regulated industries and how they perform. And what incentives they have to cut corners to keep their dividends when regulators say no.

                The worst would be Single Payer wins a windfall … once.

                The other worst is Pharma wins more windfalls because there’s no real constituency for no access to blockbusters and Pharma wins the media war over *not* releasing the drug at the price Single Payer hopes to pay. I mean, not necessarily foot fungus meds… but the super-expensive new Cancer treatments? Yeah, the Public is not going to be price sensitive here.Report

              • InMD in reply to Marchmaine says:

                I think that’s right. To me the real policy questions on this are much more about patents and IP than about insurance. Not that I’m against, for example, Medicare having negotiating power, but it’s almost non-responsive to the larger issue, particularly when we’re talking about off label uses for non acute conditions as we are here.Report

    • CJCoIucci in reply to Jaybird says:

      Who knew? Lots of us.Report

  8. InMD says:

    Having just been abroad for the first time in quite a while I think it bears mentioning how much we set ourselves up for failure on this in the US. Which isn’t to say we’re totally unique. Obesity is rising all over the rich world, even if we are as usual leading the pack. However I’d be remiss not to share that I spent 5 days in a small German city and came back 5 lbs lighter after eating nothing but doner kabobs and bratkartoffeln and drinking way more beer than I care to admit. My brother who lives there and his wife keep weight off effortlessly because they walk to transit, walk to errands, and walk to fun. As harsh as this is to say I saw fewer noticeably obese people over several days than I often do on an hour long trip to the grocery store in the US.

    All of that said, I think the solution really is to embrace the help we can get from the pharmaceuticals. We aren’t going to re-invent American infrastructure and logistics any time soon and so we should use what we have, which is money and technology. To that end my wife found out our insurance covers one of the semaglutides (I think mujaro) and has been taking it as a supplement to her other efforts to take off the pregnancy weight. It seems to be working well for her, and while I’d never suggest totally foregoing efforts to exercise and make smart choices at a certain point humans are tool users and these new tools may be the start of a new, better adaptation to our success at eliminating food scarcity where we’ve achieved it.Report