Quibbling Over Nomenclature Regarding the Atomic Bombings

Andrew Donaldson

Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has been the Managing Editor of Ordinary Times since 2018, is a widely published opinion writer, and appears in media, radio, and occasionally as a talking head on TV. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter@four4thefire. Andrew is the host of Heard Tell podcast. Subscribe to Andrew'sHeard Tell Substack for free here:

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12 Responses

  1. Chip Daniels says:

    I always think of that quote attributed to St. Augustine that if we must kill, we should kill with anguish and regret.

    Human ethics is messy and complex and riddled with exemptions and caveats.Report

  2. InMD says:

    Great piece, Andrew.

    I think one of the larger problems of ‘the Discourse’ on this and many subjects is desperation for a level of certainly and moral validation that never follows any weighty decision. Maybe a weighty decision is by definition one that a person will chew on forever and never be totally sure they got right.Report

  3. rexknobus says:

    I have always had the feeling that the decision to drop the bomb wasn’t a very difficult one, at the time. The Germans were enemies, of course, but the Japanese were Hated. Really Hated. Maybe a racial thing; maybe a reaction to the depredations of the Japanese Empire at the time; maybe a fear of the real threat they had posed early on in the war. A poisonous combination of all of that? But Hated with a capital Hate. I really doubt that Truman, or anyone in a position of influence at the time, gave the dropping of the bomb that much thought. “We’ve got it. We’ll use it. Next question?” Later, of course, much analysis, but at the moment, no problem. (As long as it worked.) Would we have used the bomb on Germany? I rather doubt it, but who can be sure? The timing didn’t work out.

    None of that is meant to suggest the decision was wrong; just that it wasn’t hard, at the time. The point has been made many times that The Bomb wasn’t even the worst that we did. Was it dropped to save millions of lives in a nasty invasion scenario? Was it dropped as the first shot in World War III (scare those Commies a bit)? I have read some analysis that says the fire-bombing of Dresden was more about the Russians than the German civilians. I don’t know.

    War sucks, man.Report

    • InMD in reply to rexknobus says:

      I think this is very likely true. To your point one interesting factor is how much larger the atrocities of Germany loom in the modern Western (as opposed, to say, the Korean) imagination than those of the Japanese. There’s no particularly empirical reason for that, but I have to think it colors the discussion. Assuming all else being the same it’s hard to envision a lot of people voicing these concerns about dropping the bomb on you know who in Berlin.

      I also think you’re right that the contemporaneous records show a racial element, but they also have the visceral hatred for an enemy that attacked us, as opposed to an enemy more of circumstance. I recall hearing about how my grandfather went into a rage when he saw that my mother bought a Camry, but never seemed particularly bothered by all the VWs on the road.Report

      • InMD in reply to InMD says:

        Just to add, it’s even more interesting when one considers how infinitely more repentant the Germans are than the Japanese about their past.Report

      • PD Shaw in reply to InMD says:

        I certainly don’t disagree about a racial element in domestic discourse around the Japanese, but the anti-German elements were pronounced as well, though perhaps stronger during WWI. The lesson for German-Americans taken from WWI was to de-Germanify, though still policies like Prohibition were seen as anti-German.

        My grandfather was drafted at a later age because he lived in area with a substantial German peace church presence whose members liberally claimed conscientious objector status. He objected to the pacifist bona fides of those he had known all his life.

        Anyway Germany/Europe was the expressed strategic priority over Japan/Pacific. The war aims for the U.S. were the same, occupation and demilitarization. These are obvious priorities given everybody in positions of influence were taking their lessons from WWI (including the Japanese command) The U.S. and its allies has seen the consequence of a negotiated peace/ armistice as merely serving as breathing space for renewed aggression. The counterfactual that I think is worth considering is what the McCarthy era would have been like if it had been disclosed that the U.S. had a weapon capable of ending the war sooner (whether it be in Germany or Japan) and it wasn’t used for some philosophical musings on the implications of the Prometheus myth. I don’t think it would have been pretty.Report

        • InMD in reply to PD Shaw says:

          It’s an interesting point, and I know anti-German sentiment was pretty wide spread during WW1 and during some of the 19th century waves of immigrants. My grandfather on my father’s side was of German ancestry. He also hailed from a heavily German area of the midwest. I know he served in Europe in WW2 but not much else, or if he faced any pressures or discrimination. The surname which I carry is obviously German and not anglicized or anything. He died before I was born and my father doesn’t talk about him much.Report

  4. PD Shaw says:

    Meh, I think dropping the bomb was good for the reason I gave — it increased the likelihood that my grandfather and others in his situation came home from the war alive. I see dividing good from justified as a false dichotomy, and if people aren’t using “just war” in the more technical sense, it usually comes across as “deserving.” It was good to bring the war to an end as quickly as possible. If the criticism is people are spiking the ball in some unflattering light, then that seems more of a social media issue that I am not exposed to and it wasn’t in the body of the article. The main criticism I had of the article was highlighting a Nikole Hannah-Jones twit is a bit of nut-gathering, there are certainly better critiques than her conspiracy theorizing.Report

  5. Burt Likko says:

    I know evil violence requires a less evil but greater level of violence to stop it. I also know without really tight guardrails and leadership the lesser of two evils never evolves past just being the evil it always was once the mitigating circumstance passes.

    Here lies the justification for using the bombs, yes; but more than that. Here is expressed, succinctly, a hard-earned wisdom. Here is demonstrated why I love reading Andrew Donaldson so very much, why he is a blessing to these pages.Report