Elizabeth Warren, USB, and Solving Yesterday’s Problem Today

Will Truman

Will Truman is the Editor-in-Chief of Ordinary Times. He is also on Twitter.

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12 Responses

  1. InMD says:

    I’m kind of curious about who is asking for this. I’ve never been (and God willing never will be) an apple user for anything, other than back when we had iPods. I remember maybe 8 or 9 years ago periodically being annoyed at which cable connected to what, particularly in the context of car chargers. Since then though I’m pretty sure everything I have has evolved to either micro USB or regular USB and I can’t remember last time I was annoyed by any of it. Even when this was a periodic annoyance I’m not sure it ever in my mind would have risen to the level of ‘Congress needs to get off its ass and fix this!’ So is Liz Warren just an old lady who needs to get with the times or is there some shadowy Cable Makers Association of America whose members stands to benefit?Report

  2. Brandon Berg says:

    Doesn’t the USB standard include a mechanism to adjust power output from a charger to match the demands of the device being charged?Report

    • There have been at least simple-minded negotiations possible since USB 2.0. USB “Power Delivery” added more voltage and current options and requires USB-C connectors/cables. All of these are ways for the device to signal the charger that it can (and needs to) draw more power than the default.

      Exploding batteries are on the device. If the battery can be safely charged at only 100 mA, then it’s up to the device’s charging circuitry to limit the current. There’s no way for the charger to “force” more current than the device will accept. If the device is dumb enough that it’s charging mode is simply “connect the voltage and ground power leads from the USB connector across the battery terminals and hope the charger can’t source more than 100 mA”, well, you get what you paid for. Arguably, such a device is not and has never been USB standards compliant, no matter what sort of connectors it uses.Report

      • I assume that the devices have something to govern the current, but that when you get a fire or explosion the governor didn’t properly govern.

        That may be on the device-maker, but that doesn’t unsinge the curtains. That big brands and small have had this happen suggests it’s a hazard that should be factored in. Samsung famously had this on one of their flagship products.

        The flipside is a more common problem, which is that the device does not draw enough power. Which is not a device failure, but also not catastrophic. But it’s annoying, and the whole point of Warren’s thing is to avoid annoyance.

        All of this is not enough that I would regulate it, but it’s enough to make me think that small devices that need a little bit of power and big devices that a lot of power should perhaps have different charging systems.Report

        • DavidTC in reply to Will Truman says:

          All of this is not enough that I would regulate it, but it’s enough to make me think that small devices that need a little bit of power and big devices that a lot of power should perhaps have different charging systems.

          But they don’t. I mean, they literally don’t right now. Already.

          For one thing, you’re actually talking about chargers, not cables. And chargers generally have a USB-A port regardless, and for years the other end was microUSB. So…for years you could plug your rapid-charge phone into a very low-end charger, and your extremely low-wattage USB fan into the rapid-charger that can deliver up to 30 watts. Even now, you can still do it, because the vast majority of USB-C devices are still charged off USB-A chargers.

          Mysteriously few fires started, mostly because the USB standard says ‘Here is the amount of power you can draw if you are dumb and do not talk to the charger (Like a USB fan), and if you do talk to them you can negotiate more’. (Not that overdrawing would start a fire.)

          I assume that the devices have something to govern the current, but that when you get a fire or explosion the governor didn’t properly govern.

          No. Devices catch on fire or explode because the device overcharged the batteries or let them get too hot. No device that has batteries that charge can be hooking them up to ‘However much current we can draw, oops we drew too much’, because that isn’t how electronics work.

          The device drawing more current than the device can handle is literally impossible…current is not something just floating around that the device collects, it’s the draw of the device. The concept of ‘too much’ is a concept of the _supplier_, not the consumer. Drawing too much current would start a fire in the charger, not the device. (Pretending the charger didn’t just trip off, or limit charging, which is what actually happens.)

          Your basic premise seems to be ‘Rapid-charging devices have switched over to USB-C, which must mean it is better for them’, and…no. High-end devices merely switched over to USB-C _first_.

          USB-C has a number of advantages over microUSB, and literally no disadvantages, and no it’s not particularly more expensive in concept. It’s still less common so the parts and cables are more expensive…but that is a function of manufacturing amount, not anything inherent in the standard.

          There’s no reason that all device-makers won’t switch over to it in time.

          This actually would be a good argument against what Warren is trying to do…except she’s clearly aiming the bill at Apple devices.Report

          • Will Truman in reply to DavidTC says:

            But they don’t. I mean, they literally don’t right now. Already.

            Some do and some don’t. Cables differ, wattage differs, and other technologies like QC3 and PD.

            I think there’s at least an argument to be made that while there you are dealing with different bases and power needs, different cables can actually be pretty useful!

            Let’s say you are completely right that there is absolutely zero increased fire hazard when a device overdraws on the current, and let’s further say that all of the documentation regarding potential battery-damage from using the wrong charging block is also wrong, you’re still dealing with different optimization and on the other end insufficient power draw.

            The charging needs of a laptop and a phone are different. At minimum, this means that the charging blocks need to be different. Once you have different charging blocks, it’s not illogical to have different cables for the same reason that diesel and gasoline have different nozzles.

            The industry and/or consumers have decided otherwise. And that’s fine and I even *mostly* agree (still less than enthused about the laptops). But I would argue that this makes it all a poor space for mandates. Especially as the power needs gap could expand further as time progresses.

            In any case, we’re in a space where the Warren is demanding interchangeability as the devices themselves beg us not to cross-use chargers.

            For one thing, you’re actually talking about chargers, not cables. And chargers generally have a USB-A port regardless, and for years the other end was microUSB. So…for years you could plug your rapid-charge phone into a very low-end charger, and your extremely low-wa ttage USB fan into the rapid-charger that can deliver up to 30 watts. Even now, you can still do it, because the vast majority of USB-C devices are still charged off USB-A chargers.

            I’m talking about both. In the OP I had a whole paragraph about charging blocks (which Warren’s proposal wouldn’t do much to regulate, I’m guessing). “Charging systems” here incorporates both. In our house we have USB-C cables plugged mostly into higher-powered sources and Micro-USB into more limited sources. And our laptop chargers are their own thing on both sides.

            Increasingly the chargers are USB-C to USB-C, which is probably good because of a lot of the things I talk about (it kind of forces me to use the appropriate chargers with the appropriate cables), though annoying for the issue that Warren brings up (having to buy new cables all over again).

            USB-C has a number of advantages over microUSB, and literally no disadvantages, and no it’s not particularly more expensive in concept. It’s still less common so the parts and cables are more expensive…but that is a function of manufacturing amount, not anything inherent in the standard.

            The advantages of Micro-USB are that they are less expensive, the ports are slightly more reliable*, and the system slightly narrower (which can matter for tiny devices). I expect the price difference to collapse and everything to eventually move over to USB-C (I said so in the OP with larger devices, but I do think the same is true of smaller ones… eventually. but I think it’s going to take a while (took a while for tablets, where USB-C made more sense but was an area where they could continue to cut costs).

            * – Failure rate of Micro-USB cables tends to be high, but I never had a Micro-USB *port* stop working, while that’s not uncommon with USB-C. One theory is that the latter are more likely to get dust in them due to the wider mouth. I’m not sure whether it’s that or just technological compexity.

            This actually would be a good argument against what Warren is trying to do…except she’s clearly aiming the bill at Apple devices.

            Apple isn’t my thing, but almost everyone I talked to said the switch was likely inevitable anyway (and not because of EU regs). If they are right even there it’s not really useful.Report

  3. DensityDuck says:

    Next up: legislation for how every coffee place has to have frickin’ coffee-flavored coffee so that you can just go in and say “I want a frickin’ coffee” and they frickin’ hand you one, you don’t have to ask for a frickin’ double-thick-mardi-gras-twist-lemon-triple-shot-half-caf-soy-latte-cinnamon-ramalamadingdong!Report

    • Jaybird in reply to DensityDuck says:

      In Michigan at the diner we always went to, a “regular coffee” meant “black coffee, no sugar”.
      In New York at the diner we always went to, a “regular coffee” meant “two creams, two sugars”.

      Mom found this out the first time she got a “regular coffee, to go”.Report

  4. Oscar Gordon says:

    Next week, she’ll want a standard wireless charging station standard for all devices, so you can charge your phone and robo-vac on the same charge pad!Report

  5. Michael Cain says:

    Recall what USB stands for: universal serial bus. Unfortunately, we seem to be entering an era when all devices are going to use USB-C connectors and consistent power protocols, but are going to run some subset of USB 3.x, Thunderbolt 3 and 4 (which encompass a ton of things), HDMI, MHL, DisplayPort, etc for data. The power/charging aspects may work, but there’s going to be a lot of devices out there that use the same connector but won’t be able to exchange data.Report

    • Trumwill in reply to Michael Cain says:

      Data is almost certainly my problem with Android Auto. It’s the only one I’ve noticed so far but it’s also one of comparatively few complex data transfers I think. Better error handling may resolve that with time.Report

  6. MikkhiKisht says:

    My main active interest in this is to take the advertisement ‘There’s a $20-80 Dongle For That’ away from Apple. The Apple Cultists overpay already. It ain’t right.Report