49 thoughts on “I Love My Country, But Let’s Not Kid Ourselves.

  1. This election wasn’t about race, and the post-election controversies weren’t about race. It wasn’t about race in Florida in 2000, or Ohio in 2004, or Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan in 2016. Close elections get heated. This time we had a perfect storm of broadened voting procedures, close elections, and a two-months-long presidential temper tantrum.

    The violence was probably mostly white but who cares rioters against probably mostly white but who cares officers protecting probably mostly white but who cares Congressmen. It was about the certification of a white president-elect over his white opponent. Pence is white, and Kamala is (from what I hear) a cop, a Jamaican-Indian who managed to garner no votes in her presidential run. I only mention her background because it seems to matter to African-Americans, who also haven’t embraced her Jewish husband.

    The violence last year, where people were shouting racial slogans, was about race. This wasn’t.Report

    1. I think you’re right Pinky. But I also think it was about something worse. A concerted, cynical, evidence-free attack on the electoral process by an executive who has (also without evidence) asserted every election he has run in was rigged, including, most bizarrely, those he won. Now I didn’t think the muttering in 2016 was right either but let’s not let that unprincipled crap prevent us from calling a spade a spade.Report

      1. A spade is a spade. (That feels weird to say in a thread about race.) Trump was wrong, to an extent that impeachment is a reasonable part of the conversation. The point of my comment wasn’t to restate my disgust at what Trump has said and done but to argue that framing this in terms of race isn’t reasonable. A thing can be wrong without being racist.

        I could accept this article if it stuck with the point that African-Americans see the incident in light of historical oppression. It’s a bit of a pompous argument, but I wouldn’t have felt the need to comment on it. But this article says the event was about race, and that’s nonsense.Report

        1. I’m sure there’s a snappy bridge quip in there somewhere about an elite suit calling a spade may be a spade, and a response of something like: no trump takes the hand, or something like that. Would probably make for a good tweet.Report

        2. Fair point (including that I didn’t think too hard about that expression before using it).

          But I agree that there’s a lot of question begging in the classical sense that goes on with these assertions.Report

      1. Your point is that claims of fraud were about race, claims that were backed by 140 or so elected GOPers and about 75% of Republican voters. That’s a bit different. I totally understand that Pinky wasn’t aware of those facts when he wrote what he did.Report

  2. Thank you for writing this Dennis. Keep speaking up.

    Saying “I enjoy this” doesn’t really fit. I need it, though. I need to know about it. Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power.Report

  3. The biggest error we Americans make is to imagine that all the struggles are ended and victory is safe.
    It isn’t, and never will be.

    The struggle to establish dignity and equality to all persons is going to be a never ending one.Report

    1. I was just thinking about this very thing. I think it’s kind of like having a nice lawn. You can’t just throw out some grass seed and say, “done!”. No, you have to mow it. You have to pull weeds. You have to water it, you have to fertilize it sometimes.

      So you can neglect it and have a weed-infested mess. Or you can cut it every day, roll it every week for 500 years and have one of those marvels that you see in England.Report

  4. Really good piece Dennis. I too love my country but we have been terrible at times and not just long ago. To many people can’t integrate those two points. We aim high and strive to be great but to often have been as bad as any country has ever been. This is who we have been very recently: paranoid, racist and violent. We have to struggle against this forever.Report

    1. Is it a bannable offense to say that I *don’t* love my country? Honestly, I don’t even know what the expression means. It’s not like my country is my kid or parent. It’s just the place I was born. One reason I don’t love my country is that the celebration of ignorance and arrogance we call “Trumpism” defines who we are as a people. Trump is often (conveniently) identified as the cause of Where We Are, but he isn’t. He’s just an opportunist.

      Likewise, the pre-Trump years weren’t all that fucking great either. Except for the wealthy. The highlights of the post-Nixon presidencies are Reagan reducing taxes on the rich and Bill Clinton offshoring American manufacturing jobs, and George Bush illegally invading a foreign country.

      I don’t love my country. But I do think that any hope for this country going forward includes a repudiation of populist insurrections against the worst-except-for-all-the-rest type of government we actually have. For better or worse, the politicians we elect and the policies they enact are *who we are* as a country. And the GOP has elected apologists – and in some cases accomplices – who support a coup on that system.
      Don’t love those folks.Report

      1. I don’t think it should be a bannable offense. Though I do try to keep my flag waving immigrant grandmother in mind whenever I despair. There’s a reason people will still go through hell to get here. Like, what complaints do I really have that would resonate with my recently arrived Ethiopian neighbors?

        Of course being better than the most dysfunctional and sclerotic parts of the world is a floor and not a ceiling. And to your second and third paragraph we really have a challenge here. We’ve reached the point where post truth populist insurrections and the totally-out-of-ideas bought and paid for post war establishment are running cover for each other. That’s not sustainable and I question the judgment (sanity?) of anyone with any sort of emotional attachment to either.Report

              1. Trump wasn’t a response to Obama?

                Trump doesn’t remain a response to Obama?

                Add: Trump’s algorithm in during the general and in the first few years was to simply *do the opposite of what Obama did*. Which inlcuded being white.Report

              2. He won the election because he was not Hillary.

                He won the nomination because he was not Bush (nor Bush adjacent).

                He presidented as if he were the anti-Obama… but that ain’t what got him to where he is.Report

              3. Who cares, though?

                That you’re effectively lamenting the demise of the Jeremiah Wright scandal says something about you, though. Not sure what. I could make some guesses…Report

              4. That’s not what I’m doing.

                See it as more like taking note that an Iggy Pop song about heroin is showing up in a Cruise Line commercial.

                I’m not lamenting the passing of a world where that song would have only have been known to fans of 70’s punk or 90’s indy films.Report

        1. Our country needs more immigrants who *DO* love America to outpace the authoritarian Trumpist populists as well as the cynics like myself.

          My perceptions of the US are corrupted by having lived here. 🙂Report

      2. It is bannable to say you love the country just to get in it’s pants then ghost it the next day. Other then that F away. Do i love my wife because she is an objectively better human than others. No, i love her because i love her. I love my country for lots of reasons, none of them particularly rational. Does that mean the good ol US of A is better than other countries. No. I am more than happy to have people from Ghana, Luxembourg and Thailand to love their countries. Got a great Obama speech saying this kind of thing but it broke conservatives brains the first time.

        America has been great while at the same time as being not all that great. The highlights of the pre trump years were lots of immigrants coming here and successfully building lives so their grandchildren could eventually turn into selfish ass regular old Americans. But we could use a lot more immigrants.Report

        1. The highlights of the pre trump years were lots of immigrants coming here and successfully building lives so their grandchildren could eventually turn into selfish ass regular old Americans.

          Truer words have never been spoken, err, written, my friend.Report

          1. I think the key is humility. To not overestimate or underestimate yourself. Believe in your principles, not yourself, and it’s easier to stay loyal to those principles.Report

              1. I felt like my comment addressed both the big-picture issue of how to keep perspective across a difficult presidential term and the small-picture issue of how to keep perspective when someone makes a good-natured reply about misreading a comment.Report

              2. Pinky, I understand that you confuse your feelings for facts. I’m not sure why I need to read anything to clarify that point though. But if it’s a worthwhile topic maybe you could explain it to me in an OP-length essay about the origins and thought processes of Christian conservatism. It’d be nice for you to, so to speak, lay your cards on the table.Report

              3. This will be a useful change of topic you can respond to Pinky:

                A majority of Republicans, 51%, say GOP leaders who supported Trump’s efforts to overturn the election *did not go far enough* via ABC/Washington Post poll. Only 16% say they went too far; 27% say they handled it about right.

                The Party of Moderation yo.

                I don’t know about you Pinky, but I’m just not seeing a lot of humility in the Republican party anymore. Thoughts and feelings?Report

              4. You really have to wonder what their questions were and the timing of this… and those numbers add up to 94%.

                That aside, I think the big question is what happens in a few years after Trump is gone and we’re rational again.

                Do we keep on with the magic thinking and having our own personal “facts”? Do political parties get a way to push back on that? How and should they?

                Like fish in water, we tend to not be aware of just how much magic thinking is around. Everything from “true communism has never been tried” to “the election was stolen” to “god”.Report

  5. I haven’t heard about any violence yesterday. The press had been warning about it – “Q” is the 17th letter of the alphabet. This makes me optimistic about Inauguration Day.Report

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