Everything is NOT Political

Russell Michaels

Russell is inside his own mind, a comfortable yet silly place. He is also on Twitter.

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  1. Chip Daniels
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    says:

    People are generally apolitical, until there is some event in their lives that suddenly causes them to be politicized.

    Maybe its the prospect of being drafted to Vietnam, or maybe its receiving a tax bill you can’t pay, or getting laid off, or being bankrupted by medical bills.

    What’s unique in our era is that the big national fights are not about economics, trade policy, environmental policy, or any political matters at all, really.

    The only significant divide in America today is the culture war. Specifically, the Republicans have declared war on the culture which they regard as harmful or wicked or perverse or any other descriptor.

    Which means that their policy agenda is almost entirely about forcing other people to behave as the Republicans wish them to.
    Banning abortion, and its knock on effects on IVF and prenatal care and birth control are all having real measurable impacts on millions of women nationwide.

    It only takes one woman to have complications and then go through a horrific Kafkaesque nightmare, to radicalize her, her family, her circle of friends and coworkers.

    Or a family with a trans teen who is suddenly being threatened with the prospect of state agents coming to their door to take the kid away to foster care, or a PTA group to be destroyed by a howling mob of MAGA moms demanding book bans.

    These things are all personal, and all affecting people on a level that taxes and trade policy just doesn’t.Report

  2. Philip H
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    says:

    I disagree that people are apolitical. Sure, they often view political affiliation through a local community/tribal lens, and yes, they discuss things without using that label. But they are still political.

    Take the economy – people quoted in local news stories lamenting inflation as it relates to gas or food prices are making political statements, and making political judgements, sometime years before an election. They just don’t call it that. Opposition to abortion – ditto. storming school board meetings to prevent teaching certain subjects. Ditto. And on and on and on.

    Politics is indeed a staple of human existence. To pretend otherwise is a nice bit of misdirection.Report

  3. Jaybird
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    says:

    When I was a kid, I was raised in a fairly evangelical household. Stuff was sorted into “Christian” and “Non-Christian”.

    There were Christian movies and Non-Christian movies. Christian comic books and Non-Christian comic books. Christian rock and roll and Non-Christian rock and roll.

    Anyway, the “EVERYTHING IS POLITICAL!” people remind me of that sort of sorting.

    You can tell the movies that were made with a “God’s Not Dead” mindset from the ones that weren’t. You can tell the Spire Christian Comics comic book mindset from the worldly ones. The rock and roll makes itself known as well.

    Are you a sheep? Or are you a goat?Report

    • Russell Michaels in reply to Jaybird
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      says:

      Or do you just not care?Report

    • CJColucci in reply to Jaybird
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      says:

      Is the sorting of movies, books, and music into Christian and non-Christian inaccurate or merely a stupid exercise, accurate or not? Is the issue that they’re doing it wrong, or that they shouldn’t be doing it at all?Report

      • Jaybird in reply to CJColucci
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        says:

        They were somewhat accurate in the sorting of stuff. I mean, they hit the nail on the head that The Who’s version of “Bargain” was *NOT* a Christian song but Rez Band’s version of it *WAS*.

        And that made it okay to listen to the Rez Band but not The Who.

        The leadership went out of their way to let us know that *EVERY* entertainment choice was one that would either glorify God or one that would not.

        And, hey. Sometimes I just wanted to listen to The Who, you know?

        But they were accurate! The Who was *NOT* a Christian band.

        Of course, some of the folks got upset that people were still listening to Amy Grant instead of Sandi Patty because Amy Grant “crossed over without taking the cross over.”

        That’s not a Christian cover. Even though Amy Grant is singing it.

        Even though it still has the… je ne sais quoi that puts it firmly in “Christian Music.”

        I think that folks were just upset that Amy Grant had this “2nd base would be okay” energy.

        To the extent that “everything is political”, it’s all political in the same way that everything is either Christian or Non-Christian.

        Sometimes I just want to play a videogame, you know? One made by folks who aren’t interested in being advised by sensitivity advisors.

        “SO YOU AGREE THAT EVERYTHING’S POLITICAL!”
        Yeah. But I don’t agree that Amy Grant is a corrupting influence.Report

    • InMD in reply to Jaybird
      Ignored
      says:

      This reminds me of this quote from a really old Freddie piece that I found really insightful. The publisher seems to be defunct but you can find it here:

      https://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=148582

      As I’ve said, this is an uneasy development for an antigovernment movement; branding all of one’s attachments, affinities, and commodities self-consciously “conservative” ensures that all political arguments will be fought on liberal battlegrounds. More troubling, though, is the inevitable stakes-raising that this kind of ideology-in-everything provokes. If one’s whole life is part of an ideological war, if every aspect of someone’s daily existence is to be counted as a function of an endless partisan squabble, there is no hope for reconciliation, only for victory. Political disagreement becomes not an easily-compartmentalized distraction from everyday life, but an affront to the whole self. Whatever its valuable insights, Marxism has this elementary failing; it is a corrosion of human life to relegate all behavior to the battle for resources and the wages of political war. Yet this is a seduction that movement conservatism has fallen prey to almost entirely.

      The topic is the post Bush II, Obama era conservative meltdown but I think it applies to basically anything that rejects the possibility of neutrality, from Evangelical Christianity to certain forms of leftism to the modern MAGA movement. The most self defeating principle I think, to paraphrase, is the one that ensures everything self branded as ‘x’ ensures that all battles are on ‘y’ ground. That’s not just an analytical error, but also ensures such a complete loss of perspective that good analysis isn’t even possible anymore. Hence what the OP gets into about most people being apathetic, distracted, and self interested, yet being mistaken as enemy territory.Report

  4. North
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    says:

    I actually found little to disagree with here except for the continous emphasis on left wing ideologies when the right is chock a block with the same foolish thinking whether it be libertarian totalists, religious nuts or deranged rural populists.

    But the core point is sound: The vast majority of folks don’t pay mind to politics. I would, however, assert that this is, in large part, an artifact of popular contentment. People who have relatively few complaints have little reason to pay much mind to politics except for those of us weirdos who follow politics as a kind of sport but with real consequences. That’s why political engagement tends to go in tandem with popular discontent.Report

    • InMD in reply to North
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      says:

      The left wing stuff I think can be a little, maybe at times a lot, more visible to the average person because of its prevalence in Hollywood and other mass entertainment. But to your point the most fascinating thing I’ve witnessed lately is my dad’s descriptions of retiree life. He is a Fox News watching conservative and I don’t think anything is going to change that. However he’s also always had kind of a contrarian streak and his disposition is the complete opposite of fanaticism. He has complained to me multiple times now that he has gotten sick of the number of his friends and acquaintances, and (from his perspective) everything in old man life, operating under the influence of right wing media and conservative messaging. I don’t think many of us at OT are old enough to be immersed in that culture but if it’s bothering someone like him that is broadly in line with the world view I can only imagine how it would come off to the mushy and apolitical, were it more visible. He’s also told me he’s started watching less Fox not so much due to disagreement but for fear of becoming as annoying to others as a lot of people in his life have become to him.Report

      • North in reply to InMD
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        says:

        I’d agree that the leftism is more visible to your average unengaged person due to its prevalence in media though, on the other hand, you’d probably need to be politically engaged to really notice all but the most extreme media/hollywood leftism as anything more than vague background noise and you’d likely not be in a position to note the extreme elements unless you’re, again, at least partially engaged.Report

        • DensityDuck in reply to North
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          says:

          Back when we had the discussion about “conservative media” I pointed out that left/progressive philosophy is just the default state of media, in the sense that if the heroes of a work are rebellious youths fighting for redistributive social justice we don’t see it as proselytizing or reactionary in a way that we would if the heroes were monogamous middle-class churchgoers who just wanted to grill.Report

          • Philip H in reply to DensityDuck
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            says:

            The problem starts when the monogamous middle-class church goers decide to inflict their beliefs on others through actual enforceable laws . . . and specifically laws that seek to actively harm others.

            But sure, other then that they are largely equivalent.Report

            • Jaybird in reply to Philip H
              Ignored
              says:

              You’d think that “you can’t legislate morality” would be more obvious.

              Anyway, we’re switching from LatinX to Latine.Report

            • CJColucci in reply to Philip H
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              says:

              The real problem is that monogamous, middle-class church-goers grilling unmolested and otherwise minding their business and not molesting others isn’t a story.Report

              • Chip Daniels in reply to CJColucci
                Ignored
                says:

                Which is kind of a point.

                No one anywhere in America has to fight to be monogamous, or go to church, or to refuse to have an abortion or to be openly heterosexual or wear conventionally gendered clothing.

                There is no persecution or oppression that conservatives can claim. The entire conservative project is about inflicting their preferences on others.Report

    • Russell Michaels in reply to North
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      says:

      Leftists have institutional capture in America.Report

      • North in reply to Russell Michaels
        Ignored
        says:

        Rightists have alternate institutions but, moreover, so what?Report

        • CJColucci in reply to North
          Ignored
          says:

          Joe Queenan’s Imperial Caddy, my copy of which did not survive my recent move, had a delightful passage directly relevant to “institutional capture,” listing who had captured what.Report

        • Russell Michaels in reply to North
          Ignored
          says:

          Academia, Hollywood, most of journalism, most of the large lobbying organizations like teachers unions and trial lawyers, and the bureaucracy. The right has very few in relative comparison.Report

          • CJColucci in reply to Russell Michaels
            Ignored
            says:

            The military, law enforcement, the fossil fuel industries. the aerospace industry, major lobbying organizations like the Chamber of Commerce and the NFIB, much of Big Pharma, the insurance industry…..
            I’d stack that up against the English Department any day.Report

            • Chip Daniels in reply to CJColucci
              Ignored
              says:

              Your mention of the military and various industries as “conservative” is both true but also demonstrates what conservatives are really upset about.

              Modern conservatism is entirely about culture, specifically revolving around racial and gender identity.

              It doesn’t matter to them that the military tends to be hawkish or that corporations want unlimited power over workers, what matters is the military and corporations are welcoming to queer people and nonwhite people.Report

      • Chip Daniels in reply to Russell Michaels
        Ignored
        says:

        Just a minor quibble, but we shouldn’t use the word “leftist” when we mean “liberal”.

        The distinction is shown in the discussions about media entities like the New York Times and NPR.

        Most institutions- colleges, entertainment industry, the military, corporations, or mainstream churches- don’t have anything resembling a “leftist” nature but instead have a generally liberal orientation; They generally are welcoming of the idea of racial and religious diversity, welcoming to LGBTQ people, having a generally favorable view of the regulated marketplace.

        The only reason this becomes important is because of what this institutional orientation has done to the American conservatives. The broad outlines of liberalism is now the Establishment in American society and this has caused conservatives to have an existential crisis.Report

        • North in reply to Chip Daniels
          Ignored
          says:

          Well yes, very true, I am a bit abashed because I really should have pushed back harder on the way most right wingers keep trying to collapse the liberal/leftist distinction and paint everyone to the left of Mitt Romney with the leftist brand when, in fact, the overwhelming majority of those folks are liberals, not leftists.Report

          • Chris in reply to North
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            says:

            I like when they collapse this distinction. I’m convinced that, in addition to the fact that decades have passed since the fall of the Soviet Union, the constant conflation of liberalism and leftism, and in particular liberalism and socialism, by the right is a big part of why younger people are actually not afraid of socialism, and starting about a decade ago, started to actually think and read about it.

            So I encourage all conservatives to continue conflating (American political) liberalism and socialism.Report

            • North in reply to Chris
              Ignored
              says:

              You like it for much the same reason I dislike it. Though, even without that particular tic I think socialism would have been rehabilitated in the minds of the young after the Soviets moved on to the ash heap of history because libertarians and conservatives have been calling absolutely everything socialism for ever.Report

              • LeeEsq in reply to North
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                says:

                Socialism is popular with downwardly mobile buy very educated people because they imagine it as a perpetual MacArthuir grant that will allow them to do their projects without a boring day job.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to LeeEsq
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                says:

                There’s also the whole “joy of cutting down tall poppies” thing as an undercurrent.Report

              • InMD in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                I think what’s really gone on is market capitalism taking a hit in the US due to association with things like the problems with our health insurance model, de-industrialization and offshoring, and heads I win tails you lose components of the banking sector and high finance.

                The mouthpieces may well be underemployed post grads and other types with a lot of education but a total lack of perspective including that they are in fact among the most privileged people not just in America but in history. The reason any of it has any currency beyond them is the other issues creating a sense that life is more economically precarious than it ought to be in a country this rich.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to InMD
                Ignored
                says:

                One thing that keeps showing up in the various criticisms of Late-Stage-Capitalism is how very much they seem to overlap with criticisms of Entropy.

                It sucks that you have to eat.
                It sucks that food has to be prepared.
                It sucks that other people won’t prepare it for free.

                And hints that, maybe, this could be homesourced turns into arguments about disability or food waste. (Can you believe that the most common unit of butter sold in the store is *A FREAKING POUND*?!?)Report

              • LeeEsq in reply to InMD
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                says:

                I think this is accurate. The lack of a comprehensive welfare state and other defined benefits in the United States, like a guaranteed paid 4 weeks off every year, etc., certainly has a lot of people feeling precarious compared to other developed democracies.Report

              • North in reply to LeeEsq
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                says:

                Socialism is something I respect like I respect libertarianism as I think both represent opposite vectors that contain important truths but are inadequate to be free standing governing ideologies on their own.

                Libertarians say: If the state becomes too big, taxes become too high and regulation becomes too oppressive everyone will start checking out and everything will gum up into corrupt stasis and collapse. They’re right.

                Socialists say: If the state become so weak that it’s merely a tool of the wealthy privileged and the masses become sufficiently miserable relative to the elite then it’ll all end in violence. Societies exist, fundamentally, because everyone agrees to play by the agreed upon rules and if the rules become too imbalanced against the masses , those masses always will have the power to flip the table over no matter how much money or mouth noises the elites bring to oppose them. They’re right.Report

              • Chris in reply to LeeEsq
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                says:

                I would love to have just a compilation of “LeeEsq tells the us the psychological reasons why people he disagrees with us think the things they do.” They’re pure self-validating gold.Report

              • Saul Degraw in reply to Chris
                Ignored
                says:

                The problem is that a lot of socialist types that I meet online and in real life show that they would rather lose than participate in the democratic process and have to negotiate, grapple with potential adverse consequences, or face the facts that their proposed utopian solutions might not be as popular as imagined.

                Losing and being out of power is easy. You get to think of yourself as being so pure and so special but also not have any of your precious ideas blow up in your face as unworkable. It is also much more romantic to be part of the resistance.

                Politics is about getting s**t done. Liberals want to get s**t done, the “where is my tenure?” leftier than though radicals at Jacobin don’t care about getting anything done, they just care about their own feelings of being special and purity.Report

            • Chris in reply to Chris
              Ignored
              says:

              Consider this example:

              https://twitter.com/ettingermentum/status/1779888698621882519

              If conservatives are going to call moderately popular and relatively weak tea like Obamacare “socialism,” imagine how good actual socialized medicine will look to people.Report

        • LeeEsq in reply to Chip Daniels
          Ignored
          says:

          Media has had a roughly light liberal social orientation since the mid to late 20th century depending on how you look at things. After America defeated you know who, active racism was no longer fashionable in media circles and this tendency grew as time grew on. Conservatives could not stand this.Report

      • Philip H in reply to Russell Michaels
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        says:

        How many state legislatures does the right control? State Supreme courts? SCOTUS?

        Sorry sir your thesis is flawed on the facts.Report

        • Pinky in reply to Philip H
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          says:

          You’re only looking at governmental institutions.

          I looked up Gallup’s “confidence in major US institutions” survey for a fuller list. They listed 16. I’m going to list them by whether I’d consider them under left wing, middle (including neutral and being fought over), or right wing control. I’ll acknowledge that there’s a lot of room for debate on these, and I might classify them differently on a different day.

          left-leaning:
          1 The public schools
          2 The criminal justice system
          3 Television news
          4 The presidency
          5 Organized labor
          6 Newspapers
          7 Technology companies

          middle:
          1 The church or organized religion
          2 Banks
          3 The military
          4 Big business
          5 Congress
          6 The police
          7 The medical system
          8 Small business

          right-leaning:
          1 The U.S. Supreme CourtReport

          • Philip H in reply to Pinky
            Ignored
            says:

            Yes I am looking at government institutions. Since that’s a major thrust of institutional capture.

            And your list is flawed in that it mixes a lot of local and state institutions into the national level.

            Take the police. unlike our European counterparts, we have no National Police force. we have a series of adjacent, and not always well aligned police entities from the local constable to the FBI. Control of t hose agencies is in the hands of variety of centerists to right side organizations politically, but the membership is decidedly politically conservative. So saying its a national institution and calling it in the middle is doing a series of wishful thinking sidesteps.

            Never mind that state legislatures and governors seem to be exercising a lot of power over individuals these days – which is another dimension of institutional capture.Report

          • Chip Daniels in reply to Pinky
            Ignored
            says:

            Even if one were to just accept this list as true, it would seem to indicate that the vast majority of Americans are non-conservative.

            Which is kinda what I’ve been saying, that conservatives see themselves as a besieged minority, yet demand the right to govern.Report

        • Chris in reply to Philip H
          Ignored
          says:

          When right wingers use the phrase “institutional capture,” they don’t mean elected institutions, but specifically all the unelected oned they think are running the world beneath the politicians’ noses: schools, unions, NGOs, and perhaps most importantly, government bureaucracy, the last of which is, at the federal level, a big target of Trump’s second term plans, as you may have noticed. It’s just part of their vernacular now, and comes with an entire theory about how the U.S. government works (think “deep state”).Report

          • Philip H in reply to Chris
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            says:

            Oh I’m aware of all that. Its a horrible misuse of the term – and its also a lie in that conservatives have “captured” a bunch of those institutions anyway. I mean – the FBI is not and never will be a hotbed of wokeism . . .

            And as to how the government works – we do what Congress tells us to do within the constraints of what Congress funds. Until Congress tells us to stop. Which always amuses me because Congress rarely tells us to stop.Report

            • Chris in reply to Philip H
              Ignored
              says:

              Oh yeah, the people who use that phrase are ridiculous, but you already knew that, and I can’t fathom why you’d want to argue with them, knowing that you have about as much chance of changing their right wing media-addled minds as you do of turning water into wine.

              Don’t get me wrong, I get reading them, because it’s important to understand them, as they do have genuine power in this country right now, and they’re hunting for more, but we’re not going to change that through reasoned argument with them.Report

    • Saul Degraw in reply to North
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      says:

      I’m more cynical. I don’t think people don’t pay attention to politics because they are content. I think it is because they generally don’t care, find the arguments regarding causation too hard to follow, think it takes up too much time, etc.

      Let’s look at cause near and dear to our hearts YIMBYism v. NIMBYism. The causes for the rent/housing prices being too damn high are well proven but hard to understand because they are decades-old and wonky stuff: Parking minimums, height restrictions, zoning bands on multi-family units, lot size minimums, making it difficult to build, tons of red tape at the local building department, tons of open meetings with tons of veto points, CEQA or other equivalents, etc. And now those decades old roosters have come home to roost and we are stuck.

      People understand that you used to be able to afford to be a bike messenger by day, dive bar rock musician by night in cities and live okay. They understand that you cannot but it is nearly impossible to get people to focus on the actual causation for their woes because the reasons are wonky and doing anything about it takes time. Who has time to spend their weekday afternoons and evenings in various meetings shouting down NIMBYs? What people do want is an easy narrative and convenient villains so they blame the developers who make “luxury condos” for “VC douchebags.”

      All of this might feel good but just puts people further down the hole and it is not a sign of contentment.Report

      • North in reply to Saul Degraw
        Ignored
        says:

        In your first paragraph you are really saying the same thing as I am but from a glass half empty point of view Saul. If people “don’t care” and thus don’t dig into the questions of matters enough to settle on what they think the causation is, think it takes too much time etc… that is the definition of a person who says “I’m not unhappy about issue X to put much effort or raise much stink about it.” That is content, if you’re glass half full or apathetic if you’re glass half empty but it’s kind of the same thing in principle and, as a voting electoral/political matter, it literally is the same thing.

        With NIMBYism what we have is concentrated benefits colliding with diffuse benefits and a great deal of general ignorance and parochialism. To put it in personal terms I own a house in an urban neighborhood close in to the city core. The bungalow next door to the south of me got torn down and a ten unit apartment building is being built. I am very much a YIMBY and I -KNOW- the city will benefit from ten more housing units. But that doesn’t stop my inner lizard brain from whining “There’ll be no more street parking for guests!” or “Your driveway and house will be cast in total shadow year round.” or “What does this mean for the value of this house if we need to resell?” and similar parochial complaints. I gritted my teeth and voiced full support for the development but I can’t even pretend to be happy.

        And, ironically, NIMBY matters are likely an area where home owners are very much not content or apathetic but are quite actively defending their interests at the cost of every non-home owner and every home owner outside their neighborhoods’ welfare (and arguably their own welfare too).Report

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