12 thoughts on “The Truth About January 6

  1. Unfortunately too many politicians remain in positions of power who aided and abetted. Most of the House leadership and every republican senator who did not vote to convict at his second impeachment were are are culpable. None has been kept off a ballot.Report

  2. Politically speaking, it would make my life quite a bit easier if Donald Trump is removed from the ballot, being ruled by the judiciary that he is ineligible for the office by virtue of the 14th Amendment.

    That said, January 6 was not an insurrection and Donald Trump was not an insurrectionist. And frankly it’s bad faith argument to say otherwise.

    Your own definition speaks to this clearly enough, but just for emphasis it’s important to speak clearly about what an insurrection is. An insurrection is a revolt against a previously established authority in some jurisdiction, by those who were previously subject to that authority (or others acting on behalf of those people).

    What Donald Trump did, in its most serious purpose, was not to overthrow or in any way diminish the authority of the federal government or the Constitution in any way. It was to assert that he, Donald Trump was the legitimate agent or representative of that authority. That could very well still be a bad thing, but it is not an insurrection.

    There may (or may not) be other reasons why Donald Trump did not lead an insurrection, or otherwise be eligible to be President by the 14th Amendment. But that is the most important one.Report

    1. What Donald Trump did, in its most serious purpose, was not to overthrow or in any way diminish the authority of the federal government or the Constitution in any way. It was to assert that he, Donald Trump was the legitimate agent or representative of that authority.

      Bollocks. He sent a mob to prevent the certification of the election of his successor, by threatening and if necessary killing the very government officials performing that certification. He was revolting against a previously established authority ( The Electoral College and the Constitution underpinning it). As both US citizen and president he was – and still is – subject to that authority. And he demanded others join him and act on his behalf – as statements of the majority of those convicted in the attack so far attest to.

      To a “reasonable and prudent person” that is indeed an insurrection.Report

    2. Trump led a temper tantrum in a public area that devolved into a temper tantrum in a secure area. Trump has never truly planned anything. If the actions of the rioters had been more violent it could have delayed the tally by maybe a day, but it was never a threat to the system. If I’d been in charge I would have given the officers permission to shoot the rioters. Trump should never be reelected president. This wasn’t an insurrection by any adult definition.

      That said, I also agree with your point that trying to work the system via novel legal theories doesn’t constitute insurrection. I think people get lazy and conflate the efforts to “win” the count with the riot, and you’re right to point out the difference.Report

      1. Let’s propose a hypothetical. Suppose the Capitol policeman who led part of the mob away from congressman had been unsuccessful in his ruse and some members of Congress had gotten killed. At that point do we have an insurrection?Report

  3. The most important thing to remember is that Jan 6 is not something in the past, but part of a continuing and future actions of the GOP to install themselves as a permanent minority ruling party.

    Jan 6 wasn’t limited to a single actor or mob of powerless people. All the major figures in the GOP have either participated in it, or are now in the process of justifying it after the fact, and leaving the door open to further insurrections in any elections they lose. They are increasingly brazen about resorting to violence to impose their rule on the rest of the country.Report

  4. Roger Stone Spoke With Cop Pal About Assassinating Eric Swalwell and Jerry Nadler

    “It’s time to do it,” Stone told Greco. “Let’s go find Swalwell. It’s time to do it. Then we’ll see how brave the rest of them are. It’s time to do it. It’s either Nadler or Swalwell has to die before the election. They need to get the message. Let’s go find Swalwell and get this over with. I’m just not putting up with this [stuff] anymore.”

    A source familiar with the discussion told Mediate they believed Stone’s remarks were serious. “It was definitely concerning that he was constantly planning violence with an NYPD officer and other militia groups,” the source said.

    https://www.mediaite.com/politics/exclusive-roger-stone-spoke-with-cop-pal-about-assassinating-eric-swalwell-and-jerry-nadler/

    This isn’t over. They haven’t learned any lessons, other than to try harder next time.Report

    1. They have learned a lesson Chip – that too many people in the US – even conservatives – want someone else to “save them.” As long as Stone, and TFG and others can exploit that loophole, America won’t heal.Report

    2. “…[Stone] was constantly planning violence with an NYPD officer and other militia groups,” the source said.

      Not to derail too much, but notice how the quote identifies NYPD as one of many militia groups. This is probably unfair to NYPD officers, surely not all of whom are in militias.Report

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