The Biggest Threat to Our Liberties is Religious Faith

Jason Benell

Jason Benell lives in Des Moines, Iowa with his wife and two children. He is a combat veteran, former city council candidate, and president of Iowa Atheists and Freethinkers.

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12 Responses

  1. Dark Matter says:

    Agreed.Report

  2. Pinky says:

    Everyone is free to persuade each other, and everyone is free to build their political beliefs on whatever they choose. So I don’t see any of what’s discussed in this article as a diminishment of the separation between church and state as our founders would have understood it. There is no particular church that’s punching above its weight here, right? Nor are the people voting in policies that support one church over another. They’re neither acting unfairly nor using their clout to make the system unfair.Report

  3. Chip Daniels says:

    We need to also be honest that it isn’t “religions” which pose the threat to freedom, it is one religion in particular, the Christians.
    We don’t see Hindus picketing slaughterhouses or ultra Orthodox rabbis phoning in bomb threats to Red Lobster.

    The minority religions- Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims- have largely accepted their status as minorities. Christians haven’t.

    They constitutes a diminishing minority, yet insist on having the right to rule.Report

    • Dark Matter in reply to Chip Daniels says:

      God told me I’m supposed to be in charge.

      If you have an organization where that has worked, then at some point, in order to grow, it needs to deal with other groups. Traditionally religious orgs mellow out at that growth stage so they can appeal to neutral outsiders.

      Another way to grow would be to take control over the levers of power. You can’t get hostile outsiders to join you but most people will just go along with whatever.Report

  4. Pinky says:

    “From Thomas Paine – a staunch secular abolitionist – to the formation of American Atheists – whose leader championed women’s equality in the 1960s – through today, the data overwhelmingly shows that secular groups lead the way on human rights.”

    The abolitionist movement came from Christianity. William Lloyd Garrison, like William Wilberforce in England, was motivated by his faith. Harriet “Moses” Tubman was literally a Christian visionary. Sojourner Truth, I mean, I could just say the name and it should be obvious. The Quakers. Frederick Douglass. Abraham Lincoln. A hundred years later, the civil rights movement was religious. Half of its leaders (among them Rev. King) were preachers. Broader than that, the entire concept of human rights originated in the Christian tradition. And as this article points out the positive impact of religious faith, it actually refutes its own title.

    ETA: I should have also said that the women’s rights movement was initiated by many of the same Christians I listed above.Report

    • Dark Matter in reply to Pinky says:

      Religion was on all sides of that one. Pro-slavery forces could point to the Bible as endorsing it.Report

      • Chris in reply to Dark Matter says:

        Worth noting that some of today’s biggest offenders on the subject of separation of church and state are in denominations that came into existence largely or entirely because they supported slavery (e.g., Southern Baptists).Report

    • DavidTC in reply to Pinky says:

      The abolitionist movement came from Christianity.

      That’s true, but almost _everything_ in the Western world, and especially America, can be asserted to have come from Christianity.

      Slave-owners use Christianity to justify slavery. Bigots claim that Black people were under ‘The Mark of Cain’ to prove they were lesser. Antisemitism can be argued to have originated from, and is certainly encourages and enflamed by, claims that Jews killed Christ.

      And as for women, women’s equality was, and is almost entirely a struggle against the gender roles that were created by and backed up by Christian church. Yes, some of the people fighting _for_ them were Christian also, but literally 50% of the opposition was the church itself, or people using religious claims to back up their opposition.

      You can’t pretend that a group originated something when almost everyone involved in the fight on _both sides_ was that group, and the actual organized institutions were main opposition to it.

      Also, weird that you stopped there, at the civil rights positions that Christianity has mostly, vaguely, somewhat come around on. (Except the parts that haven’t and the places it hasn’t.)

      It’s almost as if you don’t want to address the idea of, I dunno, gay marriage.Report

      • DensityDuck in reply to DavidTC says:

        “That’s true, but almost _everything_ in the Western world, and especially America, can be asserted to have come from Christianity.”

        congratulations you agree with him that pointing to some horrible thing and saying “Christians were involved in this!!!” doesn’t actually say anything meaningful

        “women’s equality was, and is almost entirely a struggle against the gender roles that were created by and backed up by Christian church.”

        the suffrage movement was primarily about getting Prohibition passed, and that was being done to curb a culture of binge drinking and violent misogyny, neither of which two things were particularly lauded by Christian culture of the time, so I don’t know what you’re on about hereReport

    • Pinky in reply to Pinky says:

      It looks like Dark Matter and DavidTC both agree with me for questioning the “overwhelming” data that secular groups led the way on human rights. Christians may have been nearly the only game in town, but we were the game that produced the standards and worked to achieve them.Report

      • Dark Matter in reply to Pinky says:

        If you’re on all sides of the slavery debate, then no, you don’t get credit for ending it.
        It’s like claiming that ending slavery was a male thing, or purely a white thing.

        Religion is about power and organization, not ethics. As an organizational tool, it is at best neutral.Report

        • DensityDuck in reply to Dark Matter says:

          keep in mind that ending slavery also had plenty of racism involved (in the “America should be a white country for white men, without any icky black blood polluting the race” sense.)Report