The Posters
Since Hamas’s assault on Israel and its aftermath, the world has become engulfed in activism around it. Most of this has taken the form of remembrance and protests. Sympathizers of Israel have expressed anger over the original bloody Hamas attacks that occurred a little over a month ago. Muslims and sympathizers have expressed solidarity with the Palestinians as Israel launches its brutal retaliation. Most of these protests have been peaceful and uneventful, but of course those aren’t the ones that make the news.
One of the tactics used by one side has been to put up “Kidnapped” posters for those that have not been found and identified (and many that probably have) in the Gaza wreckage. A tactic used by the other side is to tear these posters down. In the middle, a lot of people seem confused about both of these actions and irate at those tearing down the posters.
“Why tear down the Kidnapped posters?”, they ask. At first, I thought this question was disingenuous but the more people I’ve talked to the more I’ve come to believe there is some obvious confusion by both action and reaction.
In the United States, the Kidnapped posters are hardly pictures on the back of a milk carton. They’re not actually posters to find missing people. No one expects anyone to see one of those posters on a lamp post and say “Hey I saw that person on the east side! I will call this number immediately!” The reason to put up those posters can only be described as propaganda. Maybe good propaganda in order to get the hostages freed, but that’s unlikely given that the hostages will absolutely not be freed while military assault is ongoing. No, the likely desired effect is to make people angry at Hamas and to highlight the violence they committed. They’re stoking anger at Hamas and, whether they intend to or not, Muslims more generally. In the global context, though, it’s justifying the violence occurring against the Gazans as we speak.
In that context, is it any surprise that others are responding by tearing the posters down? Especially while IDF attacks are ongoing? It’s possible to lament the blood spilled on both sides, but the blood spilled on one side is being treated as sacrosanct. Is there any doubt that posters and bills put up highlighting Palestinian deaths would at minimum be held to posting requirements? Yet when Kidnapped posters are placed where posters aren’t supposed to go, it’s being treated as akin to supporting terrorism to not let them hang there. If your response is that failing to take Israel’s side here is supporting terrorism, that’s your prerogative, but know what you are doing and what you are justifying.
I mention the unauthorized placing of posters because that’s a more clear case. On Free Speech grounds, I otherwise do oppose tearing down posters where legitimately placed. Place posters of dead Palestinians next to them. We’ll see how long those are allowed to stand even when put where they are supposed to be. We’ll further see if the people who do inevitably tear down those posters have their pictures taken and sent around the world so that they appropriately suffer for taking a different side from everyone else in what should straightly be viewed as a humanitarian catastrophe with more collateral casualties occurring on the side with only marginal social protection in the United States.
They started it, of course, because for some reason history began on October 6th of this year.
This is only partially about the posters themselves. I would honestly recommend tearing them down whether legitimately placed or not. Even when taking them down should be fair game, it looks bad and the first response should be to introduce people to the other victims of this conflict. This isn’t even about those that would treat Palestinians as inhuman terrorists because they are quite clear where they stand. Listen to what they’re saying, because they mean it. Know that if you are fixated on the posters, that is who you are siding with. Who you are and what you stand for is defined by what matters to you.
Meanwhile, every bad thing Israel does is supposed to be because Hamas or Hezbollah or the Islamists made them do it. They are at once to be considered among the brethren of the developed democratic world and also to be held to a standard of merely being better than their neighbors. It is true that almost none of this would be happening if Hamas hadn’t done what they did, and it’s true that many of the acts of brutality committed by Israel were in direct response to threats from their neighbors and within, but the Palestinians didn’t force the West Bank settlements that complicated some of the few pathways to peace that may exist.
I’m under no delusions that peace would be imminently possible but for Israel’s retaliation. If there is a ceasefire, I don’t know what comes next. We also don’t know how things end with no ceasefire. We do have an idea that one of these unknowns results in far less death. That’s the unknown I would like to pursue. Those posters went up to prevent that from happening.
If there is a ceasefire, I don’t know what comes next.
What happened with the last ceasefire? Maybe what comes next is whatever happened with the last one. If there were multiple ceasefires, maybe we could look for a pattern.
We also don’t know how things end with no ceasefire.
If I had to guess, I’d say with most of the middle-managers of the breaking of the last ceasefire obviated.
The thing about tearing down the posters is that it results in filming the people tearing them down. This has resulted in *MULTIPLE* jobs having been lost by the tearer-downers.
A surprising number of them have been in the field of oral surgery. Probably a cluster? I’m not going to ask about it the next time I go into the dentist but it’s weird.
If the argument is something like “putting up the posters is speech, therefore tearing down the posters is speech!”, then I agree. If the argument is something like “people should be able to engage in speech without being punished by the government!”, I’d say that all of the people that I’ve seen that got fired for doing this sort of thing were in the private sector and, as has been pointed out multiple times, corporations can do whatever they want.
If the argument is “We should have a broad tolerance for speech… like, you don’t have to agree, not even on moral issues, but everyone should be allowed to say what they think about moral issues without having to worry about losing their private sector job for it!”, well… I tend to agree but I’d also note that that horse no longer seems to be in the barn. The barn, for that matter, no longer seems to be there either. We would have to build the barn before we could lock the barn door now that the horse has been stolen.
And that’s without getting into the issue of how the end goal seems to be “we’ve now won the argument, therefore we should taboo further discussion!”
You know, like the last kabillion times.
But, you know, good luck making the moral argument. If you’re in a truly multicultural society, though, you’re going to have to figure out how to deal with the whole issue of “what if people have different cultural values than I do?”
We’ve already hammered out that colonialism/forced assimilation is genocide so that’s off the table.
Maybe you could try to be more open-minded?Report
I think that the posters also trigger an emotional response because they act as a memorial to the people they depict.
Regardless, people tearing down the posters are creating propaganda against their own side and need to stop! I agree that the value of Palestinian lives is not being properly weighted in the response: by Israel, by Hamas, by the world, and for this reason their allies need to be finding the most effective ways to stand up for them!Report
Now that I know who you are. Welcome to the Other Blog.Report
This is, I think, one of the issues that will never be solved by conventional means. The Italians, the Germans, the Irish, and many other societies decided that “what’s done is done” at some point and began moving on instead of pining away for what they lost. Not so here. Sure maybe a few hundred years from now, but I have my doubts. This is an instance where I doubt either side will move on unless the other side is, essentially, removed from the area, or exterminated.Report
At present neither side has an incentive to move on. That, and both cultures originate in an area where wrongs committed a LONG time ago are still held culturally as dishonor that must be redressed. Its not how Europeans function, but it’s very much a present reality.Report
One of the “Israel has never, ever done anything wrong!” people I follow on the twitter showed a picture of a poster of one of the kidnapped old ladies and, underneath the poster, there was another poster saying “THIS POSTER MANUFACTURES CONSENT FOR ISRAEL’S ONGOING OCCUPATION AND ONGOING GENOCIDE OF PALESTINIANS. RESIST ISRAELI PROPAGANDA. FREE PALESTINE.”
And the person’s response was yet another variant of “HOW DARE THEY?” and mine was something closer to “Huh. That’s a pretty elegant solution.”
I would find it a *LOT* easier to enthusiastically defend someone for putting up a poster (even a poster I disagreed with!) in a “put up posters!” area than I’d find it to explain that people should be able to tear down posters without having getting fired for it because corporations should respect the free speech of others.Report
Where are these poster areas outside of urban cores? The only place I’ve seen these things hanging is along the fence of a synagogue I drive by taking my kids to school.Report
I was about to say “I have never seen one of these posters” but I only go to work and Safeway and game night. There are tons of places in town that I don’t see.
So I will talk about the various “gotcha” videos that I’ve seen where these posters are getting torn down:
College campuses, college campuses, and college campuses. Oh, and NYC.Report
I can see situations where tearing down posters is a great response.
It’s just that, “Well, yeah, the awful crime that poster is depicting definitely happened, and it was actually committed by the people the poster accuses of committing it, but you need to consider the broader context!” isn’t one of them.Report
Putting up a poster is speech.
Tearing down a poster is speech.
We’ve had eight years of people telling us that Freedom Of Speech Is Not Freedom From Consequences.
And it seems that we’re learning that what people mean by that is that they don’t really mean it.Report
Putting up a poster is speech. True. Tearing it down (except when it’s on the original speaker’s property) is speech. True. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. True, with some significant exceptions when the government is trying to impose consequences.
But if “we” are learning only now that some (unidentified) folks “don’t really mean it,” we have been sleeping for decades. Free speech and its implications have long been unpopular, particularly when one’s own ox is not the one being gored. Opportunism and hypocrisy are old news.Report
Old man, we always knew they didn’t mean it. What’s interesting is seeing that they didn’t know they didn’t mean it.Report
They, whoever they are, never do.Report
This article doesn’t really present an argument for tearing the posters down. First it poisons the well, essentially saying “you can’t be serious”. Then it says that the posters make people angry at Hamas (reasonable), and Muslims (less reasonable), then says that it’s no surprise that people on the other side would tear them down. Well, it’s no surprise that people on the other side don’t like them, but those who are capable of reason and persuasion and believe in Western principles would try to defend their position rather than tearing down posters that they don’t like.
Then the author implies that similar posters mourning Palestinian losses would be torn down. I don’t believe that, and it’s counterfactual for now.
And at some point, you have to address the content that’s being torn down. The content is true. It documents crimes against humanity. If the posters result in people being angry at Hamas, is that wrong? If the purpose of the posters is propaganda, can’t we argue that the purpose of tearing them down is denial?Report
#BREAKING: Rachel Birney, the #USC TA caught tearing down posters of the hostages kidnapped by Hamas has released the following statement:
To the Jewish community at USC, especially the Israeli-Jewish community,
My name is Rachel and I’m sure you’ve seen the video of me taking down the “Kidnapped by Hamas” posters last week at USC. First and foremost, I want to apologize for causing pain and hurt. Although it was not my intention to be hateful, my actions have offended and made members of the USC community feel unsafe, and for that I take full responsibility.
When I removed the posters, I was worried that while some students would feel at ease with the posters displayed in the hall, other students would not be able to focus during class. I thought, at the time, that I was helping create a safer space at USC for all students, but I was wrong. In the video, I can be heard saying “neither is genocide” and I also can be seen laughing. What I intended by my comment was that both the kidnappings and mass death of people in Gaza, seen as genocide by some people, are both awful things. I meant that neither side of the conflict should be present in the environment of a physics classroom. As to the laughter, for me it was a nervous response. I was not laughing at the posters or at the act of taking them down. I was confused as to why someone was filming me, because I perceived my own actions as neutral, and was quite uncomfortable in that moment. I now understand why taking down the posters was not neutral, and was in fact very offensive. I have, since taking the posters down, learned much more about the posters and how they are beneficial by illustrating what sparked the current conflict.
If I could go back to that day, I would not take the posters down, but that is not possible. Instead, what I can do now is offer my sincere apology, learn more about this conflict to better support my peers in this hard time, and make the effort to mend the pain I have caused.
I believe that you cannot properly see someone as a human being unless you respect every aspect of their identity, and I have failed to do this for my Jewish peers on campus. I want to apologize for my failure to honor their experience, and I want to make it clear that I respect every person at USC, especially people who hold any political belief on this conflict that is contrary to my own. We are all human and we all deserve to be respected, and I will do my best to uphold this going forward.
-Rachel BirneyReport
She’s, apparently, the daughter of the mayor of Redmond, Warshington.Report
On the other blog, one of the front liners mentioned that people tend to want to view the I/P conflict through pure good vs. evil lenses. One side is purely good and the other side is purely evil because otherwise you are dealing with a situation of insane levels of moral complexity. Tearing down the posters is a way to forget that Hamas is well in fact Hamas and not really what you can call good people.Report
If you can’t come up with a good response to effective propaganda coming from the other side, you can always come up with a bad response and get mad when it doesn’t work.Report
The funny thing about this observation is that it cuts both ways and I can’t tell whether you were meaning to criticize Israel’s supporters, Palestine’s supporters, or both.Report
This time, it’s the poster-tearers and the OP’s defense of them.Report
I am not sure that anyone in the 21st century should be shocked by the existence of propaganda.
“I’m under no delusions that peace would be imminently possible but for Israel’s retaliation. If there is a ceasefire, I don’t know what comes next. We also don’t know how things end with no ceasefire. We do have an idea that one of these unknowns results in far less death. That’s the unknown I would like to pursue. Those posters went up to prevent that from happening.”
I think this is an extraordinary but for that requires a lot more empiricism and proof. I generally associate the Kidnapped posters with actions in the United States (this could be wrong) but what happens here is not going to start or stop ceasefire there. Biden and the U.S. have pressure points but Israel and Hamas have their own agency and do not have to listen to us. Neither is the 51st state.
The big issue with with the idea of a ceasefire is that the calls are one sided and it is a bit underpants gnomes. How are you going to get Hamas to release the hostages? A ceasefire is sort of a defacto victory for Hamas that will encourage them to be more audacious.Report
The last paragraph is what I don’t get about the people calling for a ceasefire. All other ceasefires ended because Hamas still existed and is well Hamas. Even Vox is starting to get that Hamas might be perfectly sincere when it states in it’s charter that the only just solution they will accept is the expulsion, and preferably death, of all Israeli Jews. So we have a ceasefire but Hamas is Hamas and will go on doing what it wants to do because they believe their theocratic politics to be correct. Then what? They want Jew gone and preferably dead so that Palestine can be created as a perfect Islamic theocracy because there is no way that millions of Jews would sign up to be second class citizens of a Muslim state.
The Constitutional Convention of Secular Democratic Palestine:
A decent plurality or even majority of Palestinian delegates: We want the Constitution to declare Palestine a Muslim state connected to other Muslims states with all laws having to be in conformity with Sharia and the public holidays to be Muslim holidays.
Jewish Delegates whether they be hardcore settler types or the few remaining Labor types from the
kibbutzes: Fish you.
How is this going to work?Report
“If there is a ceasefire, I don’t know what comes next. We also don’t know how things end with no ceasefire. We do have an idea that one of these unknowns results in far less death.”
If there is a ceasefire, and Hamas commits another round of atrocities afterward, provoking another Israeli assault on Gaza, will there be more death, or less?Report