Sunday Morning! “The Tragedy of Julius Caesar” by William Shakespeare

Rufus F.

Rufus is a likeable curmudgeon. He has a PhD in History, sang for a decade in a punk band, and recently moved to NYC after nearly two decades in Canada. He wrote the book "The Paris Bureau" from Dio Press (2021).

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21 Responses

  1. LeeEsq says:

    Interestingly enough, I am reading The New Roman Empire: A History of Byzantium by Anthony Kaldellis. Naturally it is about the Eastern Roman Empire that went on in one form or another until 1452. One of the points in the book is that even during the Roman Empire and Byzantine Empire, most of the inhabitants did see themselves as living in a republic rather than monarchal state. The office of Roman Emperor was not necessarily hereditary and most of the old offices of the Roman Republic continued until sometime after the coming of Islam.Report

    • Chip Daniels in reply to LeeEsq says:

      One thing I’ve noticed about most dramatizations, or even histories of Rome is that they all make this weird compression of time, where nearly everything happens in a short amount of time, and everything is overshadowed by the Decline And Fall.

      Its like Caesar is assassinated, then shortly thereafter Christ is born and some people are fed to the lions, followed quickly by the barbarian invasion.
      And no matter how well the stories speak of Roman engineering and law and organization, still, well you know, it was ultimately a failure because they just couldn’t stave off the inevitable collapse.

      But of course, all these events took centuries to unfold. Something like ten generations separated a person alive when Caesar was killed, to someone who was alive when Agustulus abdicated. People lived their entire lifetime witnessing only one or two events recorded in our history books.

      I can’t help but think how their perception of Roman history is different than ours. In their eyes, I can see how the Roman system did in fact seem remarkably durable and resistant to failure- after all, it was the only thing your father, grandfather, and great grandfather ever knew.Report

      • LeeEsq in reply to Chip Daniels says:

        The Roman Empire was going strong for at least two hundred years after Augustus. It had some bad times after Marcus Aurelius died but not that bad and recovered quickly once Diocletian came to the throne. Christianization was also a lot slower than people assume, same with Islamization in the Middle East. By the time Constantine became Emperor only 10% of the population was Christian. Plus the Eastern Empire persisted long after the Western Empire ended for nearly a 1000 years in one way or another. The Byzantines referred to themselves as Romans.Report

    • Brent F in reply to LeeEsq says:

      The strength and weakness of the Roman Imperial system was that literally anyone could be Emperor. That meant disastrous Emperors could be replaced. It also meant civil wars and succession crisis was built into the system, and most of the major foreign conquests of Roman territory had their root in self destructive civil conflicts.Report

      • North in reply to Brent F says:

        Yes, the Byzantines tried fishin everything to sort out the downsides of this system; they couldn’t and it ended up destroying them. After the Romans everyone went back to hereditary monarchy right up until small l liberalism came along with the enlightenment and upended everything.Report

  2. Jaybird says:

    it’s still too soon to tell

    I love this line and it sums up the problem.

    Was it a success? Was it a failure?

    Well, what are we going for? What’s our timeline? What’s our win condition? What’s our loss condition? Do we care more about individuals or more about “culture” (whatever the hell that means) or more about architecture?

    I’ve heard the argument that the spark of Rome was carried to England which then went to America and goodness knows where it’ll show up next. I’m sure that the Martians will claim to be its inheritors. I’m not even sure they’ll be wrong to do so.Report

    • Rufus F. in reply to Jaybird says:

      I was sort of riffing on a famous anecdote that was probably too good to be true. The Chinese premier Zhou Enlai was asked in 1972 about the impact of the French Revolution and responded “Too early to say.” It’s a great story; however, he probably thought the question was about the May 1968 uprisings.Report

  3. LeeEsq says:

    Considering the ambiguity of Julius Caesar in the play and that the people behind the 2017 staging had no ambiguity about Trump, using Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar to criticize Trump was more than a little bit of an odd choice. I thought this at the time and still think it.Report

    • Rufus F. in reply to LeeEsq says:

      Yeah it was a weird take all around. I think they were trying to say that killing the guy in power doesn’t lead to anything good, even if you personally don’t care for him, but there are so many better parallels in history. And it’s not like the Shakespeare in the Park crowd was pulling for assassination anyway. I mean, I hope not.Report

      • LeeEsq in reply to Rufus F. says:

        They put Resistance signs and symbols on the anti-Caesar underlings/background characters but based on the actuals words used by said characters, it is pretty clear that they aren’t supposed to be people the audience wants to project themselves on to.Report

  4. James K says:

    I recall from when I studied Julius Caesar at high school, being told that Brutus would have come across as less sympathetic to Shakespeare’s audience than he does to a modern one. After all, monarchy was the normal and accepted mode of government at the time, making Brutus less of a tragic figure making a desperate attempt to save the Republic from an usurper, and more of an obstacle to the march of history.Report

  5. Burt Likko says:

    As a matter of historic fact, and alluded to in the play, Caesar was planning on an expedition to Parthia (modern Iran, Iraq and Georgia) and was to head out within a few weeks of his assassination. He didn’t plan on being back in Rome for five years at minimum and probably would have taken at least twice as long (everyone assumed he’d defeat and conquer Parthia; but this was not a foregone conclusion and surely no one knew that better than Caesar himself). He was 55 years old, so probably had 15-20 years of life left, so there was a good chance he’d never have come home.

    Why kill Caesar? 1) He might get Rome caught up in a war of conquest it could not win; and 2) if he did win he’d have come back… even more powerful and wealthy than he already was, although he was effectively unstoppable simply with the conquest of Gaul already in the sinus of his toga.

    Final thought: Brando’s delivery of Antony’s eulogy is really first-rate. So much anger. So much sarcasm. A real sense of an orator working the crowd.Report

  6. Marchmaine says:

    I once, non-ironically, turned Marc Antony’s speech into a power-point.

    I’m no expert on how Shakespeare ought to be dramatized, but in translating it to .ppt it felt much more subdued and ironic — where Ambition is juxtaposed to Honor and the meaning of both inverted.

    In my head, it delivers like a drumbeat… ‘For Brutus in an Honorable Man’ is the drumbeat of war… uttered methodically such that the crowd eventually accepts the subversion of honor and ambition. But to me, at least, it feels better done as a funeral oration, not the rabble-rising approach taken by Brando.

    I wouldn’t contest if told that I’m totally wrong in how Shakespeare experts dramatically view the scene… but the ‘translation’ exercise gave me a new perspective on it.Report

  7. Marchmaine says:

    Comment in moderation, but for Michael Cain, I can’t see any trigger words, links, or edit hyjinx for why it would have beeen flagged? Maybe inconsistent capitalization? Maybe for slightly criticizing Brando?Report