If This is 1776, John Eastman, You’re On The Other Side

Michael Siegel

Michael Siegel is an astronomer living in Pennsylvania. He blogs at his own site, and has written a novel.

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25 Responses

  1. Pinky says:

    This doesn’t seem like a fair piece. The quotation from Eastman wasn’t a reply to “why did you think things were so bad you tried to steal the election?”. It was a reply to “why did you think things were so bad you fought as hard as you could?”. Now, I don’t know Eastman’s heart, and I don’t know what advice he gave to Trump. He seems to have come up with exactly zero persuasive legal theories. but what you’re doing here is treating his statement as a reply to “why do you beat your wife?”.

    If you have to send Trump to prison, find one of the things he did that was an actual crime. And if it happens to be something that Hillary also did, be upfront and admit that your side was wrong in overlooking her crimes. Then prosecute him. Or better yet, if you feel like you have to send Trump to prison, go splash some cold water on your face or go for a walk or something. Don’t try to recreate January 6 just because it helped your side.Report

    • Philip H in reply to Pinky says:

      SO you see prosecuting a former president for committing crimes against the US as a recreating of that same President’s inciting a mob to attack the capitol? Fascinating.Report

    • DavidTC in reply to Pinky says:

      Now, I don’t know Eastman’s heart, and I don’t know what advice he gave to Trump.

      So you _haven’t_ read the Trump indictment, then? Or are you just unaware he’s Co-Conspirator 2?

      Because we’ve literally had his actual plan and what he said to Trump laid out in that.Report

      • Philip H in reply to DavidTC says:

        And in interviews, and in articles . . .

        Until Trump said it however, Pinky won’t choose to believe, because while he says Trump is unfit, he wants GOP rule, and if Trump is the mechanism by which to achieve that, well, you have to understand . . . .Report

        • Pinky in reply to Philip H says:

          Kindly don’t accuse me of bad faith. I oppose Trump, I won’t vote for him, and I don’t want to see him become president. I also think you guys are assuming a crime then finding evidence of stuff and assuming it’s evidence of crime.Report

          • Philip H in reply to Pinky says:

            The DoJ put it to a grand jury of citizens. They returned indictments. Now we get to test those indictments at trial. Tell me, why do you think that hasn’t been done for others? Why didn’t Hillary get locked up?Report

            • Pinky in reply to Philip H says:

              Why wasn’t Hillary prosecuted for her security violations? Comey’s apparent answer is “we found no evidence that any of the additional work-related e-mails were intentionally deleted in an effort to conceal them”. That seems more like a mulligan than a reason, but it may be the best thing for a functional republic to avoid prosecuting opposition political leaders.

              Trump’s security violations strike me as just as deliberate (Comey was addressing Hillary’s deletions, not the illegal storage) and serious as Hillary’s. I would like to see Hillary and Trump treated the same, or at least the courtesy of an admission that Hillary should have been prosecuted.

              The January 6 related charges are, in my opinion, an overreach by a prosecutor who does this and falls on his face quite a bit. He failed to convict Bob Menendez and John Edwards. He got a conviction on Robert McDonnell that was overturned by the Supreme Court unanimously. He likes novel theories and circumstantial cases.Report

              • Philip H in reply to Pinky says:

                Jack Smith – the Special Counsel bringing these indictments – was not involved in any of those cases.Report

              • Pinky in reply to Philip H says:

                Are we dealing with multiple Jack Smiths? It’s possible, but are you sure on this?Report

              • Philip H in reply to Pinky says:

                I sit corrected.Report

              • Pinky in reply to Philip H says:

                Does it change your perspective on this indictment to know that three times he went after high-profile politicians (and I don’t know about McDonnell’s reputation, but Menendez and Edwards are every bit as disreputable as Trump) and got zero permanent convictions? Specifically failing to show that official acts were deliberate crimes? Two juries and 8 Justices (including Ginsburg, Breyer, Sotomayor, and Kagan) saying he failed to make the cases?

                What do you think it would do to the country if Trump gets convicted and loses the general election, only to have that conviction overturned 9-0 by the Court?

                And how much faith do you have in media outlets that didn’t give you these facts and analysis?Report

              • Philip H in reply to Pinky says:

                I think it will be much less harmful then if he’s let off, takes power and follows through on his threats. Because convicting him – regardless of what comes after – reinforces that the rule of law extends to everyone. not just us ordinary folks. IF SCOTUS were then to toss the convictions, it would still prove the system works. Letting him slide on January 6th – to say nothing of the classified documents charges that would already have had me in prison – means the system is dead.Report

              • Slade the Leveller in reply to Pinky says:

                Is what’s holding this country really than tenuous?Report

              • InMD in reply to Slade the Leveller says:

                The 4 pillars of American democracy are the 1st Amendment, presidential impunity, the super bowl, and the special sauce that goes on a big mac.Report

              • Slade the Leveller in reply to InMD says:

                Heh. It’s really just 1000 island dressing.

                On a serious note, other democratic countries seem to have no problem jailing former leaders. Hell, South Korea gives Illinois a run for its money on tossing them into the pokey. Yet, democracy reigns!Report

              • InMD in reply to Slade the Leveller says:

                I think it’s our volatile partisan political environment more than anything objective about the system. Nicholas Sarkozy I believe was charged and convicted for I believe some conduct during his term as president and no one seems to see that as a threat to French democracy.Report

              • Chip Daniels in reply to Pinky says:

                I know that you are trying very hard to be the “reasonable” Republican but it is your words here that reinforce my view that there is no such thing.

                We all witnessed Trump lose a free and fair election, yet conspire with his cronies to try and overturn the results of that election.

                And yet you are here giving us the “Well ackshully it was ephebophilia” defense.

                You, the Reasonable Republican, are telling us quite openly that overturning elections isn’t really a crime.

                So in response I maintain that American democracy will never be safe so long as any Republican anywhere holds any position of power.

                Again, as a result of your own words.Report

  2. Burt Likko says:

    Hell yeah, brother!Report

  3. Greg In Ak says:

    Oh for a like button to smash. Very well said.Report