The ChatGPT Lawyer Case: Mata v. Avianca

Jaybird

Jaybird is Birdmojo on Xbox Live and Jaybirdmojo on Playstation's network. He's been playing consoles since the Atari 2600 and it was Zork that taught him how to touch-type. If you've got a song for Wednesday, a commercial for Saturday, a recommendation for Tuesday, an essay for Monday, or, heck, just a handful a questions, fire off an email to AskJaybird-at-gmail.com

Related Post Roulette

14 Responses

  1. KenB says:

    Pretty soon the judges will be AI too, and will react “ah yes, Estate of Durden v. KLM Royal Dutch Airlines — very on point.”Report

  2. Burt Likko says:

    My cringe muscles wore out.Report

  3. Dark Matter says:

    Chatgpt has no DEPTH of understanding of serious fields. It has wonderful command over English and can make stuff up.

    I figured this out on in the first 5 minutes of using Chat when I asked it to code up a trading engine. Everything was technically correct (meaning I think it’s code would compile) but structurally it was a disaster. It’s a tool for me, not a replacement of me.

    These lawyers not only did no checking (zero) on Chat’s work, but this was probably the first time they’d ever used Chat… or they’ve never, ever, checked Chat’s work to see where it goes off the rails.Report

    • Marchmaine in reply to Dark Matter says:

      I don’t think this is a depth issue. It would be a depth issue if ChatGPT brought back ‘random’ cases or tendentiously related cases in support of it’s affidavit… instead it invented cases. That’s more of a personality disorder than a depth issue. If it were a depth issue, would might think it would get better with more practice; if it’s a personality disorder, I’m not sure what we should expect with more practice.Report

      • KenB in reply to Marchmaine says:

        I’m no expert, but at a high level the problem of fake citations seems solvable for someone who wanted to make a law-centric LLM, using some combination of RLHF and supplemental corpus — the LLM has to be trained that citations are not subject to pattern match but have to be pulled from dataset of actual cases.Report

        • Marchmaine in reply to KenB says:

          Then it would become a depth problem.

          So there are a few ways to look at this cautionary tale:
          1. LLM will just get better as we add more parameters to it’s learning model.
          2. As we add more parameters (like from GPT1 to 4) will it reach a point where we can’t quite tell where it needs a better model? Which is to say, it v.4 passed a legal ‘sniff test’ even if it failed at what a competent lawyer is expected to validate.
          3. If/when we reach that point, how will we know whether it’s serving up ‘knowledge’ or substituting ‘gnosis’
          4. And here I’m not even talking about Super Intelligence or consciousness.Report

        • DavidTC in reply to KenB says:

          That doesn’t solve anything. It would just start making up the contents of actual cases instead of making up the contents of fictional cases.

          Everyone here is wildly overestimating how these things work. They have no knowledge whatsoever except what words look good next to other words. They don’t even vaguely comprehend any aspect of what they are saying, they don’t understand what different nouns are talking about or what they are saying those nouns are doing or anything.

          It just turns out that words looking good next to other words is how humans generally score communications.Report

  4. Jaybird says:

    My advice to every single other legal group out there that has had a case against this firm in the last two years: Go back and double-check that the cases exist.

    My advice to every single legal group out there that has had a case against anybody in the last year: Go back and double-check that the cases exist.Report

    • PD Shaw in reply to Jaybird says:

      This appears to be a personal injury lawyer whose state lawsuit was removed to federal court, where I believe he was not admitted to practice though he’s practiced law for 30 years. His firm doesn’t have a subscription to a legal research service that covers federal law. Since the injury occurred inflight btw/ El Salvador and New York, the case implicated the Montreal Convention on aviation liability, to which an additional issue was raised about the effect of the stay issued under federal bankruptcy law on the limitations running.

      This mainly looks like a lawyer who initially thought he was handling a standard PI case, who suddenly found himself outside his area of experience (and his group’s support). He relied on technology that he didn’t understand to bridge that gap. But any lawyer that didn’t check an opposing party’s legal authority would mostly just be uncovering their own incompetence.Report

      • Jaybird in reply to PD Shaw says:

        Would this level of incompetence qualify as “gross”?Report

      • PD Shaw in reply to PD Shaw says:

        I think a lot of people overestimate the degree of difficult legal research required of typical lawyering. Most PI cases are largely fact-driven within the framework of legal principles that are repeated from court opinion to court opinion. In those cases if a lawyer cites a court opinion for well-known proposition (“airlines have a duty of reasonable care to their customers”, probably few would check to see if the case existed or if its being misrepresented. If a court opinion is presented for a novel or highly determinative legal proposition (“airlines have no duty of care to their customers,” I can’t imagine the opponent not reading it.Report

        • CJColucci in reply to PD Shaw says:

          Generally speaking, about half the cases cited even in good briefs can safely be ignored. Usually because all they’re cited for is uncontested general propositions. It’s still a good idea to check them. Recently, an opponent of mine cited some cases for proposition X, which was true. But the real issue was closely-related proposition Y. I checked the cases and was able to say, “As the very cases plaintiff cites make clear, [proposition Y].”Report

  5. Saul Degraw says:

    The lawyers were probably tired of writing the same opposition time and time again and decided to take a shortcut.Report