Maybe Some More Than Others

Will Truman

Will Truman is the Editor-in-Chief of Ordinary Times. He is also on Twitter.

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35 Responses

  1. Dark Matter says:

    Hmm…

    “Children are the world’s most valuable resource and it’s best hope for the future”.
    -John F Kennedy.

    “They [children] are our future”
    -Nelson Mandela

    “Our greatest Natural Resource is in the minds of our Children.”
    -Walt Disney

    “…children are our future…”
    -Whitney Houston

    Those aren’t really on the point she seems to want. Those are “children are hope” when some of these groups understand “without indoctrination no adult will follow us so we need to indoctrinate children”. That’s a cultural/religious thing.

    “Whoever controls the education of our children controls the future”.
    -Wilma Mankiller (American Indian Activist and Chief)Report

    • DavidTC in reply to Dark Matter says:

      I mean, there is always one person who had amazing speechwriters, and seems a bit more, uh, acceptable to quote:

      Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. -Ronald Reagan

      It’s not super pithy, you might want to use only the ‘or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free’ part, but seems to be basically what is wanted.

      Plus, it’s a Reagan quote so automatically get cheers regardless.

      Addition: Also this one:

      Education is not the means of showing people how to get what they want. Education is an exercise by means of which enough men, it is hoped, will learn to want what is worth having.

      Report

  2. KenB says:

    A lot of this comes down to exactly what definition of “racist” one has in mind. In this case, probably not the “everyone’s a little bit racist” kind but also not the “slavery was justified” kind, so I guess the accusation is that she secretly but consciously holds opinions involving negative generalizations across one or more category of non-white people. For that one, certainly having a family member or best friend in the category isn’t a sure defense because they could be seen as an exception, or else the generalization isn’t purely based on race but rather a combination of race and culture.

    But at the same time, I don’t think either of these two events is very useful in determining whether she fits the above category. Re the Hitler reference, it certainly shows bad judgment and suggests that her taboo for Hitler references is not as strong as we might like, but it’s quite a stretch to say that having less of a taboo means that she actually supports what he did in any way. And the “white life” thing — to me it seems like a genuine slip of the tongue ( “w” and “r” are easy to mix up in speech, and this would be a very strange thing to purposely say in this context). Even if somehow the word “white” was bouncing around in her brain, I think people really make too much of the idea that these slips are windows into one’s true beliefs. Not that it’s impossible that the worst way to take it is the right way, just seems to me to be low-probability based on only what’s presented here.Report

    • Saul Degraw in reply to KenB says:

      The thing is that if a person wants to make a children are the future reference, there are only about 99 trillion quotations about this. There was even a very schmaltzy Whitney Houston song from when I was a wee lad that literally had “I believe children are our future” as lyric or something very close to it.Report

    • LeeEsq in reply to KenB says:

      Giving the fascist a pass like this is one of the reasons why American democracy is in big danger.Report

    • Kazzy in reply to KenB says:

      I agree with regards to slips of the tongue.

      Today, I almost and maybe kinda sorta did accidentally say a slang term for an East Asian person. I was talking with my students about a sensory material they were using and how it felt “icky, sticky, ooey, gooey, glippy, gloppy, etc.” and the words just got jumbled in my mouth and if anyone was listening super closely and wanted to “gotcha me” they easily could have. We all fumble our words a hundred times a day and sometimes the fumble is really bad.

      I think focusing on this is like focusing on Trump’s skin tone… like, why? There is much more legitimate stuff to critique this person for and yet you want to focus on the stupid stuff that is least credible and most likely to blow up in your face. Why? WHY WHY WHY?Report

  3. Saul Degraw says:

    She knew what she was doing and is now back tracking. There is nothing new under the sun with this moment. It is the same as MTG trying to backtrack when she was caught hanging out with actual racist and proud anti-Semite Nick Fuentes. I would not be surprised if Congressperson Miller was caught telling people that the (((ewws))) are to blame for the foreclosure on the farm.

    The thing about American society currently is that a lot of people realize being accused of racism is bad but this doesn’t mean that they want to do any reflection about whether they hold bigoted views and/or structural racism is a thing. Such actions require self-examination and that can be painful and make people feel bad. Instead, we get a kind of dance of “No one is more against prejudice than me but let my freak flag fly…..”

    “Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”-Jean-Paul SartreReport

  4. Slade the Leveller says:

    I have relatives in downstate IL. My uncle is a staunch union man, who voted Democrat his whole life until 2008. When my cousin pointed this out to him, his response was, “Well, that’s different.”

    South of I-80 in this state you’re going to find a whole bunch of Mary Millers.Report

  5. Chip Daniels says:

    Its very common for racist people to have deep and even loving relationships with nonwhite people.

    The famous examples are Thomas Jefferson and Strom Thurmond who had children with nonwhite women. But far more common ae the millions of white people who had friendly relationships with black coworkers.

    But the thing is, that doesn’t change the fact that in all these cases, there was an assumed inequality. The kindness and respect shown to the nonwhite people was a privilege subject to revocation at will.

    They weren’t accepted as peers and equals, they were guests, tolerated only on condition of their acceptance of the structure of laws and norms and customs. The moment they challenged that, they were suddenly viewed as the enemy and treated accordingly.

    Like I’ve said a few times now, the worst atrocities in history rely on these sorts of people who although they themselves don’t say the quite parts or get their hands dirty, can always be counted on to support or acquiesce to those who do.Report

  6. Saul Degraw says:

    As I pointed out yesterday in the Dobbs thread, there are lots of people willing to state totally deranged and hate-filled things on line and connected to their real names: https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1afaaf308ab101b2617668659e64773595a845487e9d0027371835129cdc9afd.png

    Based on my google searching, Penelope Maynard describes herself as a Catholic, and Nationalist on Twitter. The least problematic aspects are the facts that she gets history totally wrong. I get that it is comforting to think of her as a loner and lonely soul but I think that the views she expresses here are shared by a sizeable minority of the population. Even if as Chip notes many Republicans would find these thoughts distasteful, they are not going to tell her she is wrong and will defend her if she ever face official reprimand for these views in some setting as being “cancel culture.” Even if we go with the 27 percent crazy factor, 27 percent of 330 million people is a lot of people with fanatical hatred in them.

    When people tell you who they are, believe them was a lesson we all should have learned from the but her e-mails lady in 2016. 6 years later and a lot of people still seem to not want to believe this lesson because it means some confrontation and going against their perceived tribe.Report

  7. PD Shaw says:

    I have a relative that lives in her current district and just thinks she’s stupid as ****, and has a lot of stories to tell. But his big complaint was that she makes a big deal out of refusing federal money to the district. I told him I’m not sure she gets to decide that, but its a concrete policy proposal that doesn’t require sifting through her hidden agendas.

    The problem is that downstate is a series of Republican sinks in which the Republican will have a two-to-one advantage in the general election. The winner of the Republican primary will win with something like 15% of the vote total in the general election and win the general election in a landslide.Report

    • Philip h in reply to PD Shaw says:

      And then the republicans in that district who claim to be pro-choice or moderate will lament the ever rightward movement of their party while refusing to vote for the democrat.Report

      • Dark Matter in reply to Philip h says:

        We have about 20% of the country who are pro-life-and-vote-on-it. There have to be a lot of republicans in that 80% who disagree with the party but don’t think the issue is important enough to leave. They are either a bullet voter for something else or have other weightings.

        The real power of the pro-life movement is a LOT of them vote on that issue and that issue alone.Report

        • Pinky in reply to Dark Matter says:

          If 20% of the country votes single-issue pro-life, there’s another 20% that votes pro-life and other issues, 20% in the middle, 20% who vote pro-choice and other issues, and 20% who vote single-issue pro-choice.Report

          • Dark Matter in reply to Pinky says:

            and 20% who vote single-issue pro-choice.

            You wish.

            We’re in the spot we are because, until maybe now, there’s been close-to-0% who vote single-issue pro-choice. With the Supremes on their side there’s been no need to do the heavy lifting.

            My 10 second search on google suggested pro-life out spent pro-choice on the election 3 to 1.Report

            • Chris in reply to Dark Matter says:

              I actually have voted single-issue pro-choice for most of my adult life, though it doesn’t matter much given where I am. That is, it’s the only reason I’ve voted for Democrats in most of the instances in which I’ve voted for Democrats. Having had many conversations about this, I think the number is actually significantly higher than 0%, though probably not 20%.Report

            • Kazzy in reply to Dark Matter says:

              “With the Supremes on their side there’s been no need to do the heavy lifting.

              My 10 second search on google suggested pro-life out spent pro-choice on the election 3 to 1.”

              I think any time the status quo is (or is perceived to be) in your favor, those looking to change it are always going to be more active and engaged. It will be interesting to see what those numbers look like moving forward.Report

    • Saul Degraw in reply to PD Shaw says:

      If only there was a way to make sure people like Ms. Miller do not advance to the general and if they advance to the general that they do not advance to Congress…..Report

      • Jaybird in reply to Saul Degraw says:

        Funny story on NPR!

        Report

      • PD Shaw in reply to Saul Degraw says:

        I think part of the “credit” for her winning was that her predecessor surprised everyone by announcing he was retiring, publicly thought about reconsidering, and ultimately announced he would not reconsider. The candidates that appeared were all pretty minor for both parties.

        Miller had never run for office before and within a couple of days of being seated in 2021 name-checked Hitler. Her spiel is that she is not a career politician. She’s running this time against a career politician that has the support of almost all of the local Republican party bosses. His spiel is constituent services. It will be close.Report

  8. Greg In Ak says:

    Regardless of what is in her heart and hitler having some good points THE CROWD cheered her “white life” comment. Maybe her tongue slipped but did the claps and cheers of the crowd just slip. Nope the crowd loved “white life” so what the heck is in their hearts? Would have loved ( well hated) to hear what the crowd thought she meant.Report

  9. Kazzy says:

    I think she pretty clearly misspoke. As such, I don’t really care about that.

    I know for a fact that non-white people and white people with close, loving relationships with non-white people can still be racist and/or white supremest.

    This recent snafu seems like a non-troversy.

    What does NOT seem uncontroversial is that her Hitler comments were egregious.

    And what seems stupid is that we’re only making hay of them now because of a slip of the tongue. Like, why wasn’t she called out over and over again 18 months ago when she made the Hitler comments? And why do Dems seems so committed to screwing ALL of this up?Report

    • Chip Daniels in reply to Kazzy says:

      We’re making hay of the fact that the crowd cheered , and that there is a consistent pattern of bigotry across the entire Republican party.Report

      • Kazzy in reply to Chip Daniels says:

        A fair point but not really relevant to her specifically which was my focus.Report

      • Dark Matter in reply to Chip Daniels says:

        It’s her crowd of supporters right after she won the election. Probably doesn’t matter what she says.

        I’m fine giving her/them a pass on that and ignoring the mis-spoke if she were otherwise mainstream, or even mainstream Right.

        Big problem I have is she’s one of Trump’s backers in the Big Lie. This puts her in “overturning election” territory and “Fascist” might be the right word.Report

  10. Will Truman says:

    I’m genuinely less certain that it was a mispeak. The post’s title is at least a nod to that… her mindframe might be “this is good for all children but white children are of particular interest”. This may not be fair on my part.

    With regard to the Hitler line, it did get a fair bit of attention at the time. It didn’t hold attention because there was a lot happening around that time. For whatever reason, she hasn’t in general got the attention that MTG and Boebert have. Either she’s not quite the wildcat attention hound, or she’s just not as good at it.Report

    • Kazzy in reply to Will Truman says:

      It may not have been a misspeak. Or may have been more Freudian than truly a slip of the tongue. But if we want to question this woman’s moral compass, we have strong evidence and we have weak evidence and it seems weird to focus on the latter (not you necessarily, the broader discourse).Report

    • Kazzy in reply to Saul Degraw says:

      As a non-Twitter, non-TikToker, weaksauce social media user… is there an appreciable difference between @RightWingWatch and @LibsofTikTok (or whatever it’s called) besides ideology?Report

      • Chip Daniels in reply to Kazzy says:

        Yes.
        The people featured on the latter are mostly isolated cranks whereas the people featured on the former have Senators and governors on a speed dial.Report

      • Saul Degraw in reply to Kazzy says:

        What Chip said. MTG appeared at a rally with Fuentes. She tried to backtrack but they were caught together on camera. The LibsofTikTok lady only assumes the cranks she highlights have access to Biden and Pelosi,Report