Saturday Morning Reading: Harry Dresden’s Peace Talks and Battle Ground


Jaybird is Birdmojo on Xbox Live and Jaybirdmojo on Playstation's network. He's been playing consoles since the Atari 2600 and it was Zork that taught him how to touch-type. If you've got a song for Wednesday, a commercial for Saturday, a recommendation for Tuesday, an essay for Monday, or, heck, just a handful a questions, fire off an email to

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23 Responses

  1. Murali says:

    Are we allowed to spoil the two books in comments?

    Because I read the two books when they came out and I’ve been wanting to talk to someone about them for a while now.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to Murali says:

      I may be the last person on the board to have read them. Well, except for all of the people who still haven’t started the series yet.

      Hrm. Let’s say that you can talk about broad strokes but if you want to talk about how BU ZL TBFU GURL XVYYRQ XNEEVA or, of course, learning that BU ZL TBFU ZNEPBAR VF N QRANEVNA ABJ, let’s use rot13, a simple encryption that will allow people who want to avoid spoilers to do so, but will let us talk about how BU ZL TBFU WHFGVAR VF NA BHGFVQRE BE FBZRGUVAT.Report

  2. 17 is a magic number in Steven Brust’s Drageaera books, which I’d highly recommend to anyone who enjoys the Dresden books, Brust has so far published 15 of a planned 19 Vlad Taltos books, plus 7 others, 6 of which are Dumas tributes (5 Musketeers and 1 Monte Cristo).Report

  3. Jaybird says:

    Spoilers for Battle Ground:

    Bxnl. Jr qvfphffrq gur obbxf sbe n zvahgr be gjb ng tnzr avtug. Jr nyy nterrq gung Znepbar orpbzvat n Qranevna jnf uhtr. V gubhtug gung Xneeva trggvat xvyyrq jnf uhtr naq fbzrbar ryfr ng gur gnoyr cbvagrq bhg “lbh xabj, ur *QVQ* trg qvibeprq…” naq fb, lrnu. Xneeva’f qrngu znxrf n yvggyr zber frafr abj.Report

    • Murali in reply to Jaybird says:

      Whfgvar orvat certanag NAQ vasrfgrq ol Arzrfvf vf uhtrReport

    • Murali in reply to Jaybird says:

      Qba’g sbetrg gung Ynen naq Uneel ner ratntrq. Gung vf zber zrqvhz, ohg yrg’f frr jurer gung tbrf.

      Ba vgf bja guvf jbhyq or uhtr, ohg Uneel orvat xvpxrq bss gur pbhapvy frrzf yvxr fznyy cbgngbrf pbzcnerq gb rirelguvat ryfr.

      All in all, battleground has dropped more and bigger bombshells than Changes didReport

      • Jaybird in reply to Murali says:

        Lrf, nofbyhgryl. Uneel vf tbvat gb unir gb svther bhg n jnl gb trg gur xvq obea naq rvgure serr Whfgvar be… jryy. Fbzrubj erfbyir gur fgbelyvar. Znlor Gubznf jbhyq or vaibyirq va gung ynfg cneg?

        Va nal pnfr, Uneel unf unq obgu Xneeva naq Gubznf erzbirq sebz uvf erfbheprf naq rzbgvbany fhccbegf *NAQ* ur’f ab ybatre n zrzore bs gur Juvgr Pbhapvy. Gung ynfg cneg zvtug *ABG* or fb onq tvira gung vg tnir nf znal pbzcyvpngvbaf nf orarsvgf.

        Ohg abj ur’f gvrq rire gvtugre gb gur Jvagre Pbheg, ur’f gvrq rire gvtugre gb gur Juvgr Inzcverf, naq gjb bs gur guvatf gung ur unq gung jrer fbzrjung pybfr gb urnygul eryngvbafuvcf ner tbar, onol, tbar.

        V jbaqre jura Znepbar tbg gur pbva. Qhevat Fxva Tnzr? Ur unq gnatyrq jvgu Avpbqrzhf qhevat Fznyy Snibe…Report

        • Murali in reply to Jaybird says:

          Ur tbg gur pbva jnl onpx ng gur raq bs Fznyy Snibe. Gur cerivbhf ubyqre bs Gubearq Anzfuvry jnf xvyyrq gbjneqf gur raq. Zvpunry vavgvnyyl ontf gur unaq juvpu pbagnvarq gur pbva ohg vg tbrf zvffvat nobneq Znepbar’f uryvpbcgre. Uneel fhfcrpgrq fbzrbar va Znepbar’f betnavfngvba, ohg va ergebfcrpg, vg znxrf frafr gung vg jnf Znepbar uvzfrys. Ol Rira Unaq (be fubegyl gurernsgre), V oryvrir ur unf nyernql gnxra hc gur pbva.

          Jura jnf Whfgvar vasrpgrq jvgu Arzrfvf?

          Gur obbxf frrz gb fhttrfg gung Whfgvar’f “erpbirel” sebz jura Gubznf arneyl qenvarq ure gb qrngu onpx va Oybbq Evgrf jnf pnhfrq ol Arzrfvf. Ohg vs gung jnf fb sne onpx, gura Arzrfvf pbhyq unir fcernq gb Gubznf naq Gubznf’f pbagnpg jvgu Uneel pbhyq unir orra na bccbeghavgl gb vasrpg Uneel.

          Nygreangviryl, fur pbhyq unir orra vasrpgrq jura fur gnatyrq jvgu gur Sbzbe whfg cevbe gb Rira Unaq. Gur ernfba sbe guvf vf gung gur Sbzbe frrz gb or va orq jvgu gur Bhgfvqref. Naq obgu frr gb unir n Pguhyh ivor tbvat ba.

          Gur uneq dhrfgvba sbe jura Whfgvar jnf vasrpgrq vf ubj fur tbg vasrpgrq. Jub ryfr unf orra vasrpgrq jvgu Arzrfvf. Arzrfvf frrzf noyr gb vasrpg zhygvcyr crbcyr ng gur fnzr gvzr. Va Pbyq qnlf, vg unq vasrpgrq obgu Znrir naq Png Fvgu. Ohg jung’f gur irpgbe bs genafzvffvba?Report

          • Jaybird in reply to Murali says:

            Lrnu, jr qba’g xabj ubj Arzrfvf trgf va juvpu zrnaf gung jr qba’g xabj ubj gb xvpx Arzrfvf bhg. Gur jubyr fgne-obea guvat zvtug uryc n yvggyr jvgu gung, ohg jr fgvyy qba’g xabj jung “Fgnef naq Fgbarf” zrnaf. Gung’f cebonoyl tbg fbzrguvat gb qb jvgu vg.Report

            • Murali in reply to Jaybird says:

              Jryy, Fgnef naq Fgbarf cerprqrf Rzcgl Avtug. Naq Rzcgl Avtug vf jung gur irangbev thneq ntnvafg. Tvira jung jr xabj, gurl ner zbfg yvxryl nvzrq ntnvafg Bhgfvqre vaphefvba. Guhf, gur avtug fxl orpbzvat rzcgl vf rvgure n cererdhvfvgr sbe be n fvta bs gur bhgre tngrf snyyvat.

              Va beqre sbe gur avtug gb or rzcgl, gur fgnef naq fgbarf (v.r. nyy pryrfgvny obqvrf) zhfg qvfnccrne va fbzr jnl. Fbzrguvat unccravat gb gur pryrfgvny obqvrf zhfg or fbzrubj yvaxrq gb gur bhgre tngrf snyyvat. Creuncf fbzrguvat vf qbar gb gurz juvpu pnhfrf zntvpny cbjre gb tb jvyq be abg jbex cebcreyl. Enfuvq be creuncf gur bhgre tngr vgfrys vf hanoyr gb shapgvba ng shyy cbjre naq gurl ner oernpurq va n znffvir jnl.

              This is all highly speculative, but it makes sense to me. But if I am right, I get to say I called it firstReport

              • Jaybird in reply to Murali says:

                Oh, that makes sense.

                It might be fun to come up with threads that still have loose ends:

                The Black Vampires
                The White Vampires (specifically the non-lust variants)
                Thomas and Justine specifically
                Lara specifically
                The Denarians
                The Fomor
                The Outsiders – Specifically Nemesis
                The Black Council
                The Third Sword for the Knights of the Cross
                Might be some minor cleanup for some of the Summer/Winter court members that he’s not crazy about

                I think that’s everything.Report

              • Michael Cain in reply to Jaybird says:

                Maggie Dresden and by extension, Mouse.

                Molly Carpenter, daughter of a Knight of the Cross, former Dresden apprentice, and the current Winter Lady, takes more than minor cleanup.

                The Old Ones, whom the Outsiders worship. There’s some question as to whether the Old Ones and the Oblivion War are canon. At this point, though, an active outbreak of the Oblivion War with one of the Old Ones seems the most likely thing to require Harry to level up again.

                This is the corner Butcher’s in. The Dresden Files started off as urban fantasy set in Chicago. It’s on the verge of becoming high fantasy where the Chicago thing is only incidental. You can deal with the problems of Harry, the scrabbling PI who advertises under Wizard in the Yellow Pages. You can deal with the problems of Harry, savior of the mortal world. Really hard to do both.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Michael Cain says:

                Hrm. Yeah. Probably Bob and Ivy too (unless they’re going to fall away the way that the Private Eye thing did).

                There’s this problem in pro wrestling where you book a guy as the underdog and have him win often enough, he’s no longer a credible underdog.

                So you have to bring in bigger and taller and uglier guys until it gets to be absurd.

                We’re on Book 17. Bringing in Cthulhu ain’t gonna be good enough. Not even close. Godzilla with a bad mustache? Pull the other one.Report

              • Murali in reply to Jaybird says:

                Let me make some predictions

                Third sword, Thomas and Justine – My guess is that Amoracchius goes to Thomas because that would be the ultimate antidote for Thomas’s inner lust demon and it matches how Thomas always acts for the sake of love (at least in his best moments) which makes him prime candidate for that sword.

                V’z nyfb jvyyvat gb org gung guvf jvyy gvr vagb ubj ur pna fnir Whfgvar sebz Arzrfvf

                Black court vamps – Drakul screams Mid-boss

                White court vamps – Tvira ubj Ynen naq Gubznf ner vaibyirq va gur boyvivba jne, ohg abg (frrzvatyl) nal bs gur bgure gjb ubhfrf, naq nyfb tvira ubj Znqevtny jub nsgre nffbpvngvat jvgu bhgfvqref (v.r. Pbjy naq tnat) fgnegrq srrqvat ba fbzrguvat bgure guna yhfg, V fhfcrpg gung gur bgure gjb ubhfrf ner gur erfhyg bs Bhgfvqre yvaxrq pbeehcgvba. V qba’g sberfrr n tbbq raq sbe gurz. Sebz n zrgn-aneengvir cbvag bs ivrj guvf znxrf frafr orpnhfr pnhfvat yhfg vf fbpvnyyl npprcgnoyr va n jnl gung pnhfvat cnva naq qrfcnve vf abg. Fbpvrgl pna znxr crnpr jvgu inzcf juvpu pnhfr yhfg. Gurl pna’g naq cebonoyl fubhyqa’g crnpr jvgu gubfr juvpu yvir bss cnva naq qrfcnve.

                Lara – She will either continue to be a foil for Dresden or die heroically/semi-heroically in one of the books. I’m giving her 50:50 odds of reaching the last book alive

                The Denarians – V guvax gur Qranevnaf ner n ovg yvxr gur jvagre pbheg. Whfg nf gur Jvagre Pbheg rkvfgf gb xrrc gur Bhgfvqref ng onl, gur Qranevnaf znl or gur erfreir grnz sbe guvf. Vs gur jvagre pbheg vf qrsrngrq (znlor orpnhfr bs tybony jnezvat be fbzrguvat) gura gur Qranevnaf ner gur barf jub ner gb fgrc hc gb gur cyngr.

                Zl rivqrapr sbe guvf vf gung va Fxva Tnzr, Avpbqrzhf naq uvf qnhtugre zragvba gur Nqirefnel. V guvax gurl jrer ersreevat gb Arzrfvf naq gur Bhgfvqref abg gb Tbq. Naq tvira bgure guvatf Avpbqrzhf unf zragvbarq gb Uneel (frr gur pbaib ng gur ndhnevhz va Fznyy Snibe) nobhg pbeehcgvba nzbat uvf enaxf, ur fhfcrpgf Grffn naq ure tnat bs orvat vasrpgrq ol Arzrfvf. Vs ur vf evtug, gura uvz orvat gnxra njnl ol Grffn ng gur raq bs Fxva Tnzr jnf abg n erfphr ohg n xvqanccvat. Avpbqrzhf vf cebonoyl abj vasrpgrq ol Arzrfvf gbb.

                Gur xavtugf jvyy unir gb qrny jvgu gur ebthr Qranevnaf naq Znepbar zvtug unir gb er-sbez gur beqre

                The Fomor – They should be mostly done

                The Outsiders – These guys are the last boss. Nemesis is the next to last boss

                The Black Council – V gubhtug vg jnf nyernql rfgnoyvfurq gung gur oynpx pbhapvy jnf onfvpnyyl jvmneqf jub jrer vasrpgrq ol Arzrfvf

                The Faerie Courts – I think the set up for the apocalyptic ending is that something happens to the Faerie courts to wipe most of them out.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Murali says:

                “Zl rivqrapr sbe guvf vf gung va Fxva Tnzr, Avpbqrzhf naq uvf qnhtugre zragvba gur Nqirefnel.”

                Bu, gung’f abg ubj V ernq gung yvar *NG NYY*.
                “Gur Nqirefnel” ersref gb Tbq, nf V ernq vg.

                Gur snpg gung Ohgpure jnf jvyyvat gb qviretr sebz “guvf vf n jbeyq irel zhpu yvxr bhef” gb “bxnl, guvf vf ab ybatre n jbeyq irel zhpu yvxr ubhef” jvgu uvf shyy sebagny nggnpx ba Puvpntb gryyf zr gung ur’f abg tbvat gb jbeel nobhg Pyvzngr Punatr.

                Gur Sbzbe unir bar zber fgbel va gurz, V guvax. Whfg yvxr gur Qranevnaf unir bar zber fgbel va gurz (be Avpbqrzhf, naljnl).

                V guvax gung gur Oynpx Pbhapvy unf gjb fgbevrf: Gur svefg vf jr svanyyl pbasvez vgf rkvfgrapr naq gura svaq bhg jub jnf ba vg naq trg n fubeg yvfg bs jung gurl’ir qbar. Gur frpbaq vf jurer Uneel gnxrf gurz bhg.

                V qba’g xabj gung vg’f arprffnevyl Arzrfvf.

                V nqzvg: V jvyy or qvfnccbvagrq vs, ng gur raq bs rirelguvat, gurer jnf ernyyl bayl bar onq thl bs abgr jub jnf oruvaq zber be yrff rirelguvat.Report

              • Murali in reply to Jaybird says:

                V guvax Yvfgraf gb Jvaq vf oynpx pbhapvy. Ubj qvq ur yrnea gb funcr fuvsg? Ubj qb jr xabj gung ur qvq abg tvir va gb entr naq qrfcnve ng gur qrfgehpgvba bs uvf gevor? Ur frrzf n ovg gbb tbbq gb or gehr.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Murali says:

                Alright. I have been thinking about this all week.

                I disagree.

                V qba’g jnag gb pnyy gur zbenyvgl va gur Qerfqra obbxf bireyl fvzcyvfgvp, ohg V guvax lbh pna pnyy vg *ZRERYL* fvzcyvfgvp.

                Abg rknpgyl Oynpx if. Juvgr, ohg lbh trg Oynpx naq Qnex Terl if. Juvgr naq Yvtug Terl.

                Chggvat Yvfgraf gb Jvaq ba gur Oynpx Pbhapvy jbhyq tvir gur obbxf gbb zhpu bs n “Ivyynva unf n cbvag” ba n gbcvp gung vf sne gbb frafvgvir va gur svefg cynpr.

                Jr’er abg va n “jr’er abg fb qvssrerag, lbh naq V” cynpr ohg bar qrnyvat jvgu npghny-sbe-erny trabpvqr.

                Ur’f abg tbvat gb jnaqre *ARNE* gur urqtr nebhaq gung fgbelyvar.Report

  4. Michael Cain says:

    Counterpoint… Butcher has very nearly written himself into a corner. He’s shown us all the clues that Harry is descended from at least demi-god stock, and is headed towards some situation where his true nature breaks through. From that point, there are no satisfactory endings.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to Michael Cain says:

      Well, there’s one…

      But it involves there not being the possibility of a sequel (but also no need for one).Report

    • Murali in reply to Michael Cain says:

      My suspicion is angelic descent or reincarnation of one of the archangels.

      Zl thrff vf Ensnry – Gur Qrzba Ovaqre. Zl ernfbavat vf gung Bhgfvqref (v.r. gur hygvzngr qrzbaf) frrz gb or gur svany obff urer. Uneel vf fgneobea naq urapr unf cbjre bire bhgfvqref, anzryl gur cbgragvny gb ovaq gurz naq guebj gurz va cevfba (v.r. Qrzbaernpu). Fvapr gur qrzba ovaqre yvxrf gb fbyir ceboyrzf jvgu uvf bja unaqf, vg znxrf frafr sbe uvz gb ervapneangr nf n zbegny fgneobea va beqre gb ovaq gur bhgfvqref

      At the end of things, he may just pull a Disney’s Hercules and decide to remain mortal.Report

      • Michael Cain in reply to Murali says:

        N ybg bs Ohgpure’f ernqref ner tbvat gb or irel haunccl jvgu n “gura Tbq fubjf hc naq zbcf gur sybbe jvgu gur Byq Barf, ohg pbhyqa’g or obgurerq jvgu ubj bgure fhcreangheny ragvgvrf unir zvfgerngrq zbegnyf” raqvat. Hevry, gur nepunatry gung jr nyernql xabj, unf pnfhnyyl erznexrq gung ur unf gur cbjre gb qrfgebl tnynkvrf, naq Ohgpure vf pbafgnagyl znxvat hc ernfbaf gung fhpu cbjre pna’g or hfrq.Report