Sticks and Stones and Hair Loss

Becca Demosthenes

Becca was born and raised in the Midwest, the ope is strong with this one. She studied English literature and linguistics in grad school; she taught for ten years until she gave it all up to become the ever tired servant to a tiny tyrant. Most of Becca's writing these days consists of sharing her thoughts and Bible studies on her blog as well as very random content on Twitter under @LadyDemosthenes. Given enough sleep and time Becca hopes to put together a children's book about Knowles VanderBeak, her son's stuffed owl.

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44 Responses

  1. Burt Likko says:

    I don’t have any comment beyond applause. For your clear moral and cultural thought, for the speed with which you got this cogent and persuasive piece written, and for your bravery within it. Thank you, Becca.Report

  2. Oscar Gordon says:

    As we’ve said on the recent posts about free speech, it’s not without it’s potential costs.

    Sometimes it’s putting up with a protest, or a Twitter pile-on, or a loss of reputation. And sometimes it’s being on the receiving end of a public b*tch slap.Report

  3. Saul Degraw says:

    As far as I can tell, there is some evidence that black women are on Will Smith’s side and Chris Rock has a reputation among them for insulting black women. The only Chris Rock line I can remember off the top of my head is “those trains are never late” so I can’t speak to this.

    For white people of a certain age, this has become all about the memes already.Report

    • Brandon Berg in reply to Saul Degraw says:

      For white people of a certain age, this has become all about the memes already.

      This is the only acceptable reason for an adult to care about a fight between celebrities.Report

  4. James K says:

    This seems like the best take on this whole sorry affair. Chris Rock was legitimately out of line, and while he deserves condemnation for that, that didn’t make it OK for Will Smith to smack him.Report

  5. fillyjonk says:

    my uninformed take is: they’re both wrong, but Chris Rock is more wrong. He punched down, he made fun of something another person didn’t have control over, and what he said seems hurtful to me. Yeah, Smith was wrong to slap him, but you know? in the deep dark recesses of my heart, I kind of support it – I was a bullied kid and know how hurtful certain remarks can beReport

    • veronica d in reply to fillyjonk says:

      I feel the same, and honestly, a slap is different from a fistfight, and a fistfight is different from a knife or gun. We call all these things “violence,” but they are not all the same. A playground brawl is different from a school shooting.

      Myself, I was in plenty of playground brawls. Most of them were stupid. Occasionally they mattered.

      Furthermore note, there is a difference between a fight and a beatdown, and in turn between that and persistent bullying. We collapse all these things together under abstraction, but abstraction erases detail.

      Anyway, the strong should protect the weak. If a bully gets smacked by someone defending the target of the bully, I’m pretty okay with that. Sure, we should use words, but what happens when words have no real chance of working — as if any set of words would dissuade someone like Chris Rock from being an ass.Report

      • Susara Blommetjie in reply to veronica d says:

        Yes there is a huge difference between an open hand slap and a fisty thump; the one is insult, the other is violence (of course assuming two parties of comparable physical strength)Report

      • rexknobus in reply to veronica d says:

        (I should just stay out of this…)

        “…the strong should protect the weak.” Are you seriously calling Jada Pinkett-Smith weak? The “Protector” mantle was pretty strongly donned by Mr. Smith. What does that make his wife?Report

  6. InMD says:

    His marriage required the course of action. There is no other way to understand it.Report

    • Marchmaine in reply to InMD says:

      Self defense, really… when you look at it. I mean, right?

      I’m fine with it… 50% chance we’ll see them at dinner somewhere having some beers. Unless there’s some previous bad blood and this we part of a continuation. But in the end? I don’t think I care all that much.Report

  7. cam says:

    I watched a good friend struggle with hair loss due to chemo in her early 30s, and honestly I probably would have Gibbs slapped anyone who made a cruel joke about it at her, so I understand the impulse. So, while I want to say violence is always wrong, it was a slap across the face, not a knuckle sandwich. Maybe that’s only a matter of degree, but degree matters sometimes.

    That said, I think Will Smith was over the top. He could have just dressed Rock down on stage and shamed him for punching down – he has the talent to do that for sure. Now, if Jada herself had marched up there and smacked Chris upside the head, I feel like there wouldn’t even be a debate, just applause.Report

  8. North says:

    Great article, endorsed unreservedly.Report

  9. Jaybird says:

    As someone with different follicle distribution than what society believes is “normal”, I feel for Jada.

    This ain’t the first time that Rock made a joke with Jada as a butt, either. He made one in 2016 as well (Remember the “Oscars So White” thing? Yeah.):

    “Jada boycotting the Oscars is like me boycotting Rihanna’s panties. I wasn’t invited. I understand why you’re mad. Jada’s mad her man Will Smith wasn’t nominated for Concussion. I get it. It’s not fair he’s that good and doesn’t get nominated. It’s also not fair he got paid $22 million for Wild Wild West.”

    So, like, there’s history there.

    I have seen takes from women explaining that what they saw Will Smith do is exactly like what they saw their abusive exes do on their behalf. And takes from women explaining that if Ted Cruz slapped Trump, Clinton would have been elected. Takes from African-Americans explaining that Will Smith was from Philly. Takes from African-Americans explaining that Will Smith shouldn’t have been acting like he was from Philly. And more and more takes than that… just ones I’m less than comfortable passing on.

    Mostly I feel tawdry.Report

    • InMD in reply to Jaybird says:

      I think the only thing Smith was thinking about was the ride home with his wife. I had an incident years ago when I was dating my now wife. We were at my brother’s birthday bar hopping and a friend of his made an incredibly inappropriate comment about her appearance. This did not result in an actual fight but I made a scene about it in front of everyone who heard the remark and got an apology to her. Had I not done that I think there is a good chance I’d have been taking a cab home or at least hearing about it forever.Report

  10. Greg In Ak says:

    Good take. Both were wrong in different ways but at least one was trying to defend his loved one.Report

  11. LeeEsq says:

    My guess is that many people are going to see Will Smith as being chivalrous and defending his women. The people who seem most horrified are upper middle class college educated types because resorting to violence when you or a loved one is slighted is just something you don’t do in those circles. Judd Apatow had tweet about fearing Smith could murder Rock at the moment of the slap. That was probably the most Jewish thing Apatow ever said.Report

    • cam in reply to LeeEsq says:

      “That was probably the most Jewish thing Apatow ever said”?

      Maybe the most middle-class college-educated thing, but I can’t for instance imagine any of Israelis I know reacting to it that way.Report

  12. LeeEsq says:

    People have very weird relationships with chivalry in the modern age. The girlfriend before the last one, that is two girlfriends ago, was annoyed with me once because her pizza order at a slice place came out wrong and I didn’t immediately go up to the counter and start making a fuss about it. The last girlfriend got really annoyed at me in the early part of our relationship because I didn’t see her all the way home even though it was late at night and I’d have to double back to get to my place. So you have lots of people that really believe in things like a man must protect and take care of her woman under all circumstances when they are together even if both parties see themselves as thoroughly modern liberal people who believe in feminism. A lot of people want to keep the parts of tradition that they like and get rid of those that they hate.Report

    • Marchmaine in reply to LeeEsq says:

      Three girlfriends? Duuude practically need a scorecard to keep up these days. Congrats on the change of fortunes. Not saying the OT prayers worked, but not not saying it.

      Always see the girlfriend all the way home.Report

    • Kazzy in reply to LeeEsq says:

      The latter scenario seems to ignore the different threats of violence women walking alone at night face.Report

      • LeeEsq in reply to Kazzy says:

        This was a long distance relationship. When I visited her in developing country X, at her insistence, she gave me a lot of warnings about how dangerous could be. She also decided she needed some lone time and abandoned me for a day and half in place where I didn’t speak the language or new anybody.Report

  13. John Puccio says:

    To me, it was the combo – the smacking incident *followed* by the profane threatening – that made it seem far more unhinged than if he just did one or the other.Report

  14. Kazzy says:

    Great piece.

    I teach young kids and often describe certain behaviors as “understandable but not acceptable.” This is usually meant to offer some perspective.

    Two kids are arguing over a toy. One snatches it from the other. The latter tries to snatch it back and is denied. They try to protest verbally and are ignored. Finally, they shove the first kid.

    Was it okay that they shoved? No. Shoving isn’t acceptable.

    Am I concerned? Outraged? Do we have a problem? No. Not based on this single incident. It’s understandable that they pushed given all the circumstances.

    Smith’s behavior was unacceptable. Full stop. But it sure as heck was understandable.Report

  15. dhex says:

    Finally an oscars worth watching (gifs of).

    Twitter is very amusing on this front, with trad chuds and wokists finding different pathways to justification. I wish them luck on their horseshoe adventure.Report

  16. For the Ted Cruz analogy to apply, Smith would have had to not hit Rock, not demand an apology, and become one of his biggest fans.Report

  17. Dark Matter says:

    If memory serves, Cruz tried to embarrass Trump(!) by going after his wife(!!) and show casing he would go lower than Trump(!!!). That’s three bad ideas all rolled into one.

    Trump replied by posting favorable pictures of his wife next to unfavorable pictures of Ted’s.Report

  18. Smith has apologized (on Instagram. A good apology has three parts:

    1. I’m sorry.
    2. I know why what I did was wrong.
    3. I will do better in the future.

    Smith hit all of those. He apologized specifically to Rock, but also to those affected by any tarnishing of his award for King Richard and to the Academy as a whole. Well done.Report

  19. rexknobus says:

    I’ve been a bit surprised by the tolerance of an act of public violence in the commentary here. A link to a post by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar that I think sums the situation up very well.

    https://kareem.substack.com/p/will-smith-did-a-bad-bad-thing?s=r

    I will also add a couple of personal observations:

    Cowardice: Mr. Smith would not have slapped Dwayne Johnson had he uttered the joke. Sign of a bully.

    Courage: Mr. Rock recovered better than might have been expected and, while his timing was thrown, he didn’t let the show go off the rails. That must have been damned hard.Report

  20. Jaybird says:

    The White House is suspiciously silent on the question of comedians being attacked.

    Report

  21. Jaybird says:

    Which one of you said “This cannot get any dumber”?

    Report

    • fillyjonk in reply to Jaybird says:

      oh, the famous First Amendment Right to be unkind and insulting to another person with absolutely no consequences ever.

      Honestly, if this had been two blue-collar guys in a bar in Sheboygan, Wisconsin, or Amarillio, Texas, or Tuckwilla, Washington, it would have been an absolute non issue. Because it’s two famous guys at an event for famous people, that’s why it got blown up.

      Also this whole thing has weirdly brought up memories of a lot of the childhood bullying I experienced, and I don’t like that.Report

  22. Jennifer Worrel says:

    Thank you for writing this as a critique of the men involved.

    And thank you for not putting some sort of obligation on Jada to weigh in, explain her husbands actions or describe how it felt to be the butt of a joke.

    The most interesting takes I have read on the matter reference Smith’s association with Scientology.Report