Yes Virginia, There Was A Coup
President Trump and crowd at the “Stop the Steal” rally January 6th, 2021 in Washington DC. Photo by Voice of America, [Public domain] via Wikimedia Commons
As the House Select Committee investigating the January 6th insurrection moves right along, and the Department of Justice indicts more and more people for the attack, it’s becoming clearer and clearer that the Trump Campaign was working hard to engineer a coup.
Trump campaign officials, led by Rudy Giuliani, oversaw efforts in December 2020 to put forward illegitimate electors from seven states that Trump lost, according to three sources with direct knowledge of the scheme.
The sources said members of former President Donald Trump’s campaign team were far more involved than previously known in the plan, a core tenet of the broader plot to overturn President Joe Biden’s victory when Congress counted the electoral votes on January 6.
Giuliani and his allies coordinated the nuts-and-bolts of the process on a state-by-state level, the sources told CNN. One source said there were multiple planning calls between Trump campaign officials and GOP state operatives, and that Giuliani participated in at least one call. The source also said the Trump campaign lined up supporters to fill elector slots, secured meeting rooms in statehouses for the fake electors to meet on December 14, 2020, and circulated drafts of fake certificates that were ultimately sent to the National Archives.
Trump and some of his top advisers publicly encouraged the “alternate electors” scheme in Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, Arizona, Wisconsin, Nevada and New Mexico. But behind the scenes, Giuliani and Trump campaign officials actively choreographed the process, the sources said.
One fake elector from Michigan boasted at a recent event hosted by a local Republican organization that the Trump campaign directed the entire operation.“We fought to seat the electors. The Trump campaign asked us to do that,” Meshawn Maddock, co-chair of the Michigan Republican Party, said at a public event last week that was organized by the conservative group Stand Up Michigan, according to a recording obtained by CNN.
The report then goes on the say that, at least in Pennsylvania and New Mexico, Republicans were smart enough to change their documents to say that the alternate slate of electors would only become official IF Mr. Biden’s election were to be tossed out for other reasons, including the much ballyhooed lie that he won by fraud. That leaves 5 states where GOP operatives, allegedly with the Trump campaign’s direction, knowledge, and assent, forged documents trying to substitute Pro-Trump GOP electors for the electors certified by each state through its legal processes following a free and fair election.
This sort of thing comports with what we know to be electoral fraud often employed by authoritarians:
So, in addition to being concealed and potentially affecting election results, an act is fraudulent if it breaks the law. Indeed, parties go out of their way to do things in the dark precisely because they are doing something wrong before or on election day. They are taking advantage of the legal machinery of the electoral process to steal an election they believe they cannot win fairly.
Sadly, the study doesn’t get into the nitty gritty of those legal thefts, but instead focuses on ballot rigging – which we didn’t have in the 2020 election – even Trump’s Attorney General said so. However, forging documents presenting slates of alternate electors would certainly seem to be an illegal activity, and thus two states Attorneys General (Michigan & New Mexico) have referred the matter to the Department of Justice for investigation. Frustratingly, these false slates were uncovered nearly a year ago, but don’t seem to have gained any legal or media attention until recently:
Though increased media attention is now being paid to the forged certificates, they were uncovered in March 2021 by American Oversight, a nonpartisan government watchdog, through a Freedom of Information Act request directed to the National Archives. (One of the authors, Melanie Sloan, is an adviser to American Oversight.)
Five of these certificates—those from Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, and Wisconsin—outright claimed to set forth those states’ “duly appointed electors.”
In addition, as the DoJ continues to investigate the January 6th insurrection, it has begun issuing seditious conspiracy indictments:
A federal grand jury in the District of Columbia returned an indictment yesterday, which was unsealed today, charging 11 defendants with seditious conspiracy and other charges for crimes related to the breach of the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, which disrupted a joint session of the U.S. Congress that was in the process of ascertaining and counting the electoral votes related to the presidential election.
According to court documents, Elmer Stewart Rhodes III, 56, of Granbury, Texas, who is the founder and leader of the Oath Keepers; and Edward Vallejo, 63, of Phoenix, Arizona, are being charged for the first time in connection with events leading up to and including Jan. 6. Rhodes was arrested this morning in Little Elm, Texas, and Vallejo was arrested this morning in Phoenix.
These indictments do serve to blunt the Republican talking point that there was no sedition or conspiracy, and with the weapons transportation and caching charges its clear this wasn’t just a bunch of tourists on a Capitol tour.
Taken together with the other information publicly in play, it appears now that the Trump campaign was involved in plotting – if not attempting to execute – a coup to keep the President in power after he lost an election. Add in the Georgia Attorney General empaneling a special grand jury to investigate Mr. Trumps’ well documented attempts to get Brad Raffensberger to flip votes, and we are on firmer and firmer grounds ever day that Republican politicians have given up on governing or fighting for principals, and are now fully invested in preserving power at any cost.
Why does this matter?
At its core, Trump’s “Stop the Steal” campaign presents an existential challenge not to his opponents, but to democracy itself. If, by definition, your opponent’s victory can be obtained only through fraud, then how can any election be legitimate? If, by definition, your opponent’s victory represents the death of the nation, then why should any election be allowed to take place, ever?
There will be more indictments. There will be more convictions. And with each new round, we will see how close to the end of democracy we came.
The question is, do enough of us care to do anything about it?
No. You’re watching the Morans investigate the Clowns.
If anyone actually cared about what Trump was planning, they’d be talking to Domestic Security.
Call me when someone who wasn’t a political appointee shows up, until then this is Brandon’s Administration running after Designated Distractions. (I don’t think they were supposed to still be distracting by this point… But there’s no head to the Brandon Administration, so…).
Seriously? This is the boring stuff. There’s plenty of juicy gossip that Congress isn’t allowed to speak about.Report
I note that after this was submitted to the editors for review and publication, Politico added fuel to the fire:
White House staff – whether political or career – don’t just gin up Executive Orders, and certainly don’t do so with this level of specificity unless they have been told to. Certain parts of it – like references to a previously unknown National Security Memorandum, suggest it came for the computer of someone high up with substantial security clearance.
Normal Presidents don’t have such orders created for them. It’s not a part of the practice of what is prepared following the loss of an election. And it further points to an Administration – of a certain party – willing to break laws, norms, and whatever else needed to be broken to stay in power.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/21/read-the-never-issued-trump-order-that-would-have-seized-voting-machines-527572Report
In the Brandon Administration, when they lose elections, people wind up dead in the reflecting pool beneath the Washington Monument (and that was the smart cookie — the other cookies weren’t expecting it).
In comparison, an Act of War against a powerful allied nation is peanuts (said act of war obtained voting records on a Global Dominion server.)Report
And they are plotting the next one. They are actively replacing any state election official who might stand in their way, in favor of loyal toadies who will find the votes they want and suppress the ones they don’t.Report
Yeah, I’m gonna leave this here. There was no coup.
Coup: “the sudden, violent overthrow of an existing government by a small group. The chief prerequisite for a coup is control of all or part of the armed forces, the police, and other military elements.”
https://www.britannica.com/topic/coup-detat
At BEST you might be able to label it an ATTEMPT, but given the actual definition of the word, I’d doubt that too.
Insurrection? “an organized and usually violent act of revolt or rebellion against an established government or governing authority of a nation-state or other political entity by a group of its citizens or subjects; also, any act of engaging in such a revolt.” MAYBE, but here’s that word violent again. Given that the amount of violence seems to have not reached the level of past “peaceful protests”, I’m not sure you can even call it an insurrection.Report
Technically, its ephebophilia.Report
Congress was violently attacked. To try and stop the certification of an election. Seems like a great use of that word.Report
Really?
I could get behind a compare / contrast between “coup” and “insurrection,” but to say the violence never got past “peaceful protest:”. Roseanne Boyland and 100 capital police officers would like a word.Report
He’s trolling the fact that a great many people on the right don’t see the 2020 Social Justice Protests as peaceful because some of those protests resulted in riots with significant property damage. It’s an old, debunked “whataboutism” that many of us are weary of because its lazy.Report
A double-standard isn’t “whataboutism”.
You’re stacking the deck.Report
Really? He’s pointing to the “all the peaceful social justice protests” (which he doesn’t really think were peaceful) and all but saying what about those? He’s saying quite clearly that we haven’t reached that level of “violence” so this wasn’t even a protest, much less and insurrection. Because “what about” all those peaceful protests?Report
I dunno. I think there are some pretty fair distinctions that can be made between the riots and attempt to disrupt Congress. I don’t have a lot of time for apologists of the Summer 2020 destruction but I’m still comfortable saying there’s no equivalence between the two. One is fundamentally a local law enforcement matter, the other was a real swing at the constitutional order, ham-fisted as it was.Report
And Damon wants to troll us by equating the two.Report
Oh, there are plenty of distinctions that can be made.
But if the emphasis is going to be on the violence, I think that saying that “if we want to point to apples, there are apples vs. apples comparisons”.
The problem with J6 wasn’t the violence. Or, if it was, it’s worth asking “wait, it was? Let’s explore this.”Report
Sure, but I’d ask if the insurance adjustor analysis is even a remotely reasonable way to look at something like this. If I’m hypothetically trying to downplay what happened on 1/6 my go to isn’t going to be ‘well dollar for dollar it was cheaper to repair than the cumulative property damage caused across the country by rioting the summer before.’Report
My take is that we’re slowly wandering toward divorce or war.
So my take on 1/6 was “huh, okay… we can check *THAT* box off…” rather than “OH MY GOSH! THIS IS SO AWFUL!”
Keep your eyes open for people denying that the elections were fair come November. Hell, look for percussive protests.Report
Well I guess unlike you I haven’t given up on the (small-l) idea of liberal democracy and its wonderful trappings. There is no alternative. But I also can admit my belief that divorce isn’t possible, and there’s only one system with a good track record of keeping the lid on war.Report
I haven’t given up on it. But I think that what needs to be bolstered is the “Liberal” part. The more time we spend on “Democracy” without working on “Liberal” will be time lost on our way to wolves voting on which lamb to eat for dinner.Report
There are definitely a dearth of people making the case for liberalism for its own sake. I think it’s a serious problem.
But I also see a lot of our culture/political war as born from navel gazing. From any kind of objective perspective this is a great place to live with challenging but (relatively) manageable problems, should we govern ourselves well.Report
How you feelin’ about our governance? Think it’s on an upslope?Report
Heh oh I’ll go out on a limb and say it could be a lot better. But none of the alternatives have done a remotely decent job at selling me either.Report
When I read your comment, I think that I’d explain why I feel the way I do by posting the exact same thing with only changing the word “but” to “and”.Report
Wow.
Just Wow.
No clearly the violence wasn’t the issue. I suppose the attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power wasn’t the issue. Or the violence in service of trying to stop the peaceful transfer of power.
Do you ever actually read your own stuff?Report
And, so, what, we’re not supposed to notice Clinton’s mobs on the streets burning and protesting in 2016??
Or are you okay with burning and pillaging, so long as someone says “Look at how pretty the Empress looks with all her pretty clothes…” in terms of an “I concede” speech given after destroying her hotel room?
Clinton’s body is pretty naked, here.Report
No, the violence was not the issue. Not even close.
The issue was the refusal to accept the results of the election and the mostly peaceful attempts to stop the transfer of power away from the guy who lost to the guy who won.
That’s what is awful about it.
The refusal to accept the legitimacy of an election on the part of those who lost.Report
The violence was instigated in service of
A framing not unlike the Southern states seceding from the union to protect states rights . . . to continue to enslave human beings. The two are inextricably linked. Just like the attack on the Capitol is inextricably linked to the failure to accept the election results.Report
A million years ago, I wrote an essay for our Democracy Forum called “On The Counting Of Heads“.
My takeaway was that the important part of “Liberal Democracy” was not the “Democracy” part. A “Liberal Monarchy” would be good too. A “Liberal Meritocracy”. Even “Liberal Anarchy”.
As time has passed, I’ve seen the “Liberal” get eaten away by moths and we’re getting closer to “Democracy”.
I don’t see “Democracy” as good in and of itself.
Just like the attack on the Capitol is inextricably linked to the failure to accept the election results.
The failure to accept the election results is, itself, inextricably linked to other failures. And those failures linked to more failures.
It doesn’t stop here.
I have reason to believe that we shouldn’t be trusting the outcomes of the 2022 November elections even though it’s January.
Ain’t that some shit?Report
Yeah, the problem with Democracy is that it isn’t inherently liberal or conservative, or capitalist, or socialist, or authoritarian, etc. All of those descriptors can be tacked onto Democracy and the Democracy part is still valid.
Focusing too much on the Democracy part actually opens the door for all those descriptors. I’d say that right now, one could argue that the US is less a liberal democracy, and more of an authoritarian one.Report
I think it’s fair to say that the violence was sort of beside the point.Report
1) I was commenting that the actual words used to label “incident” at the capital don’t meet the definition of the word used.
2) I was also pointing out that the violence at the capital in no way matched other violent actions by citizens in the recent past and
3) Noting that those other violent actions were described in popular media in words FAR less inflammatory. In other words, I’m suggesting that the difference in words used reflects political bias.Report
I don’t agree with you on 2. Both were bad but there is no match between the two. To take it to a ridiculous extreme, I think one can reason that all murder of any kind is horrible but that an attempted assassination of a high level government official has different and much more serious implications than when it’s incidental to, say, a gang turf war.
On 3, yea, the media really showed its cards during the Trump years in ways that I think were surprising to even very cynical people. We can spend forever talking about that, the meta issues, the narrative, whatever, and we probably should. But at a certain point I think you have to decide where you stand on the core constitutional problem.Report
Hoooboy. How many assassinations and attempted assassinations have we had in the past year and a half?
I do not consider assassinations to be a core constitutional problem, although they do interfere with good government to a rather obscene degree.
Rule of Law is different than Rule of Power, and once you cross that river, you no longer need worry about “core constitutional issues.”Report
Of course there was a coup. They took the nuclear codes away from Trump, and locked him in a room where he was unable to do anything.
He’d been a Vewy Bad Boy, you see.
Pence sending in the National Guard was a direct violation of our Constitution, in that the 23rd Amendment procedure was not followed. Our Commander in Chief was Donald Trump, love him or not.
The Powers that Be supported said coup, which is why Philip is willing to talk about “anything else other than the actual coup.”Report
You don’t believe Joe Biden is legally president, do you?Report
We are getting a lot of right-wing trolls lately. The editorial policy of OT has always been light on content control/comment moderation because the PTB believe people of extreme ideological differences can discuss peacefully and intelligently.
The downside of this is an extreme reluctance to deal with the anti-democratic right and/or trolls who spout conspiracy theories and lies. It is the old world of journalistic “neutrality” refusing to believe that the situation has changed. Hence, the Times often inadvertently ends up soft peddling for their insurrectionists.Report
One could view these coordinated yes/no Virginia articles as trolling for exactly the reaction that you’re getting.
I assumed that was the plan. Was it not?
Either way you all seem to be enjoying the back and forth almost as much as you enjoy the echo chamber conversations.
It’s just the Internet. Try the popcorn.Report
I didn’t coordinate my submission with anyone. I doubt Michael did either. I suspect the editors may have thought it was fun to juxtapose the titles, but beyond that I am not aware of any explicate plan. I submitted mine Friday; it was published early monday which is about the turn around I’ve seen so far on my articles.
Correlation doesn’t imply or equal causation.Report
Fair enough (good job by Andrew), but my larger point still stands.
I’m new to OT, but enjoy checking it because I like reading different viewpoints than my own. I get the sense that some of the long time regulars do not.Report
I enjoy reading substantive differing view points who are willing to show their work. which is most of the regulars around here.
I detest the intentionally intellectually vapid, and those who think owning the libs in some high art form. But sparing with them has two benefits – I get a better sense of what the issues really are, and I sharpen my sword. They may not care, but I do.Report
I’m guessing most of the longtime regulars can recite those “opinions other than their own” in their sleep by this point. It’s not a matter of dislike, so much as akin to a squeaky ceiling fan you don’t hear anymore.Report
People probably think the little button next to commenters’ names is an “x”, but it’s actually a 4-bladed squeaky ceiling fan.Report
I keep saying we need to get the guy in to fix it, but he’s always booked.Report
That certainly explains the hubris.Report
Whatever.Report
In which “Vaccinations are effective” and “Blocking the peaceful transfer of power is bad” are viewed as trolling.Report
It must be a comfort to live in a world where everything is black and white – both literally and figuratively.Report
In which “vaccinations are effective” and “blocking the peaceful transfer of power is bad” are considered controversial matters of opinion.Report
The latter is viewed as trolling by both sides.
“Clinton’s rioteers were trying to block the peaceful transfer of power”
“BLM set buildings on fire in order to convince people that Trump couldn’t keep Law and Order”
“Jan 6th happened because idiots wanted to block the peaceful transfer of power.”
Makes liberals like me want to punch someone.Report
What, and let China win?
I do not believe whether Trump concedes or not is at all legally binding.
I believe we have had a range of “legal to illegal” presidencies. If you consider GWB’s election to be legal, you’d have a good reason to believe Biden’s election was legal. That is, if you weren’t looking at all the evidence (but I neither expect nor will condemn you for not.)Report
I think you could make a case that it was an attempted, and failed, autogolpe.Report
“Insurrection” or “coup” versus “autogolpe” is 2022’s version of “pedophilia” versus “ephebophilia.”
All of it is utterly repulsive, and using semantics and whataboutism as distractions ought to be considered weak ketchup indeed.Report
It ought to be educational for lib that in a situation where they actually have legit beef, and no matter how hard they try to turn the crank on the outrage machine, libs can’t get real Americans to care about this to save their lives. Not so much out of hostility even, as opposed to indifference.Report
The fact you continue to believe libs aren’t aren’t real Americans is telling.
That aside, “real Americans” do care:
You don’t get to those sort of numbers with just libs, whether liberals are real Americans or not (hint – they are).
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bowmanmarsico/2022/01/05/new-polls-on-january-6/?sh=7dcd5a8c1816Report
This is anklebiting and cheap. Not dirty, especially, but cheap.
America is healing, Philip, as real Americans have coalesced against the President and the Democratic Party:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html
This has happened for a number of reasons: inflation, covid, CRT, school closures, Afghanistan, immigration, etc, etc. These are what’s important, in some order. January 6 simply doesn’t register, and there’s nothing in your comment or citation that changes any of this. And tbh Philip I have to believe you know this already.
Real American are invested in, and accountable to, the best interest of the nation-state United States, its people and its capacity for self-determination. In a way, it’s a good thing that you are instinctively hostile to the idea that libs aren’t real Americans. It means that at some level you understand that being a real American is a good thing, and that you aspire to be one.
As you are probably aware, there’s a lot of lib/Lefts in America, who, upon learning that they are not real Americans, think that’s so much the better. Racism, slavery, Native American displacement, late capitalism, Christian fundamentalism, blah, blah, yada, yada.
Therefore, in this world, it’s more important than ever to differentiate between those who have our best interest at heart and those who don’t.Report
Meanwhile, pay TV can’t get rid of ‘Real America’s TV channels fast enough:
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2022-01-22/why-pay-tv-operators-are-dropping-trump-loving-cable-networks
There’s no money in it anymore. The free market has spoken. Thoughts and prayers.Report
Wow.
Just, wow.
Tell me – when the dictatorship comes, and I get hauled off for reeducation, will you cheer? Will you gloat?
Because last I checked, I’m as real an American as you are, both by birth – or so the Constitution tells us – and by my desire to see a better stronger America.
71% of Americans want Congress to keep investigating the attack. 41% approves of the job the president is doing. I know its hard to conceive, but Americans – all of us – are capable of holding both those beliefs at the same time.Report
We will now commence “Trump Reeducation” where people are taught how to jack off to “You’re ffffired!”
… seriously, this is Donald Trump. He isn’t exactly the “reeducation” type.
Also, can you imagine having to get permission from “A relatively big-time CEO” to do that joke? I mean, sure, he’s no Harvey Weinstein, but still…
If we were to send you to “critical thinking camp” I’m not so sure you’d do very well. After all, diversity is our strength — and you show a shocking lack of it.Report
No Philip, that’s not the way it works for lib activists in America today. It ought to, but it doesn’t. And it’s good that you want to be an exception, but really you’re not.
For example, the most recent previous time we corresponded, you cheapshotted Mitch McConnell talking about how “blacks” voted a such a rate, comparable to “Americans” who voted at a similar or lower rate. It’s obviously the sort of thing that everybody has learned to ignore, just one more glop of sludge in our SuperFund of lib cultural pollution.
But today, let’s actually look at it for a sec. We don’t care about these kinds of throwaway jabs very much but the idea is that is Mitch McConnell is somehow discredited from defeating the Administration’s legislative priorities pertaining to reconciliation or voting rights or whatever because he’s racist. And that it an attempt to undermine the self-determination of the American people, who sometimes when the stars align, are perfectly willing and capable of empowering people like Mitch McConnell to do exactly that. So if your typical mode of expression is to undermine the self-determination of the American people, and yours is Philip, other Americans can see that and make intelligent inferences about you and the people you are ideologically simpatico with.
Well yes, Congress isinvestigating January 6, go have at it. They’ve even found some stuff, either from the investigation itself or contemporaneously with it. First there was the Eastman memo, and now there’s this draft Trump Executive Order.
Continue investigating for all I care. The mainstream media will certainly cover it. If somehow, Trump or his people are criminally charged, or taken out of play for the 2024 cycle, you’re probably doing the GOP a favor.
But, it has to be plumb obvious by now the whole subject is simply not registering for real Americans. It’s just not.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html
America is healing.Report
You need to get out more:
https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/01/Fox_January-16-19-2022_Complete_National_Topline_January-23-Release.pdf
What’s really interesting is that Mr. Biden’s approval rating is coming back up in that poll. As well as on each of the issues where Fox is measuring his approval. That’s not a sign of a nation souring on the president or his party.
Nice try though.Report
Well yes Philip, let’s take look at that.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html
Over the course of the Biden Presidency, the President’s approval rating has dropped, basically from 56% to 40%, as you can see in the chart above.
If I were super-motivated to make a visual for this, I’d screenshot this, and get out a virtual magic marker to show where your poll fits. But I’m not, so we’ll just have to do.
In any event, there is a little micro-bump basically from 40.5% to 41% in the RCP aggregate around Jan 21-22 (it’s the Biden’s last bump in the chart as it stands now). That’s what your poll is buying you.
It’s really worthwhile to click the link to see the scale of Biden’s unpopularity relative to his “bounce” in your poll. It’s just barely visible if you know what you’re looking for. There’s no way you’d ever think it’s important if you’re taking any remotely reasonable perspective of public opinion of President Biden and the Democratic Party he represents.
Btw, it’s either interesting or amusing as you choose, but Fox News is probably the best pollster in America with a Demo-favored house effect.Report
Nice to see that we have a mix of new and old trolls.Report
I remember back when Koz was arguing that it was Democrats who unacceptably used framing of violence by calling themselves ‘#rheresistance’, and completely ignored the fact that not only did Republicans use the same sort of framing (‘Tea Party’) except explicitly much more violent (Yelling constantly about revolution and how their guns existed to fight off the government.), and had used that framing for a lot longer, but had longer history of directed political violence to accomplish their goals…and also currently had actual extremist violent gangs and pseudo-military forces operating in the US.
I don’t know if he was trolling, but Koz like to make bold predictions about things and stuff, and then just sorta vanish, and then come back with entirely new ideas, ignoring that everything he said last time was wrong.Report
Hmm, I kinda interested in what specifically you’re talking about, it’s not exactly clear.
https://ordinary-times.com/2017/02/23/the-resistance-trump-and-islands-in-the-stream/
For old times’ sake, I went back and looked at comments at that link, and there were certainly a couple things where I was wrong. But for the most part, I like what wrote there.Report
On January 6th, America was this close to becoming a banana republic.Report
Of course it was a coup. How can it be anything else? As Andrew pointed out recently, the United States is becoming more diverse and a good section of the GOP and/or right-wing states “Hell no” loudly and often enough violently to that. This is combined with a good number of white people who still think stuff like “Okay the GOP is bad but I really don’t want to vote for Democrats because they have cooties, okay?”
The primary issue in the United States is still racism. A lot of people do not want to believe that their fellow citizens can see white, male, heterosexual, and at least nominally Christian supremacy as being a material interest. A lot of people do not want to believe that there is truth to LBJ’s quote on how the lowest white man will empty is pockets for you as long as he is higher in the pecking order than a black or brown person.
The other factor is a revolt against the secular world. This comes from the more “intellectual” types who seem attracted to extremely traditional Catholicism and speak with all the authority of Avignon Popes.
People like Ahmari and his rebellion against drag queen story hour even though he seems to love nearly everything secular New York has to offer.* Or people like Adrian Vermule (sp?) at Harvard University.
*Though Ahmari would probably be surprised when he gets attacked for being Persian and his wife for being Chinese by the White SupremacistsReport
Seems related to
In that a LOT of people cling to the belief that all this is hurting some “other” and won’t come back to hurt them.Report
Doesn’t a coup have to work to be a coup?
That’s actually one of the definitions of the word.Report
I don’t know. We still call the Beer Hall Putsch a ‘Putsch’ and it failed.Report
Point taken.
Really, I am not a big fan of arguing over what to call things. It often gets in the way of the effort to understand those things, which is a precursor to stopping them from happening again.
Also, I am all for investigating crimes and prosecuting the people that committed them. That said, I do worry about the phenomenon of some Democrats and some left-leaning media doing everything they can to keep Trump in the news cycle. That’s part of why he won in 2016. Hopefully, he is too old and has moved too far to the fringes to be a viable candidate in 2024, but stranger things have happened.Report
I don’t love it either. On the one hand I don’t think what happened should be hand waved away. I wish the second impeachment had removed him from office. To me that’s the reason it exists.
At the same time I’d be lying if I said I thought endlessly ruminating on this guy and the more meta aspects of this incident in particular, is healthy for our politics or society.Report
Ya know, we could always call it the Beer Belly Putsch.Report
That’s not bad and certainly captures the spirit of the event!Report
Its usually called an attempted coup or coup attempt when it fails. These things fail pretty regularly and generally look quite silly when they do.Report
do these folks look silly to you?Report
The next generation of Enemies of Democracy, DBA “Young Republicans”, making their stand:
Endorsement: Viktor Orbán For Prime Minister Of Hungary
The New York Young Republican Club proudly endorses Viktor Orbán for Prime Minister of Hungary. Orbán served as Prime Minister from 1998 to 2002 and as Leader of the Opposition from 2002 to 2010 before his second premiership began in 2010. Throughout his political career, Orbán has been a great defender of Western Civilization and the rights of the family. Orbán has stalwartly defended the people of Hungary and pushed back against globalist encroachment on his nation’s sovereignty.
Pushing back…against “globalists”
In the live action version of Maus, the Young Republicans will be played by pigs.Report
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/28/politics/committee-subpoenas-14-republicans/index.htmlReport
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/27/politics/fact-check-gateway-pundit-wisconsin-electors-2020-biden/index.htmlReport
Donald Trump is used to trying to hide his criminality by destroying records. Thankfully others followed the law.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/01/politics/donald-trump-capitol-insurrection-house-committee-mike-pence/index.htmlReport