The Persistent Problems of Personality Tests

Andrew Donaldson

Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has been the Managing Editor of Ordinary Times since 2018, is a widely published opinion writer, and appears in media, radio, and occasionally as a talking head on TV. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter@four4thefire. Andrew is the host of Heard Tell podcast. Subscribe to Andrew'sHeard Tell Substack for free here:

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30 Responses

  1. Doctor Jay says:

    Apparently they tell psychotherapists in training “If you believe in personality, you will never make a good psychotherapist. What matters are habits, strategies, opportunities and obstacles”.

    Habits are a thing. Personalities are sort of a thing, but not really. There isn’t really such a thing as a person’s “true colors”. Everything they do is as true as everything else.Report

  2. Dhex says:

    If I went to a job interview and got handed a personality test, I’d treat it like they wanted to do my astrological charts or other related rot. I’d run like my pants were on fire.Report

    • Michael Cain in reply to Dhex says:

      There’s a very old joke from the early days of computer programmers becoming a significant asset for companies. Finding people who could be trained to be good programmers was difficult (still is, speaking broadly). One company wanted to give all their programmers personality tests to see if there was some correlation, so gathered them in a big room and explained why they were there. “What kind of personality should I use when I answer the test questions?” one of the programmers asked. “You should be honest,” said the person administering the tests. “What kind of fool do you think I am?” asked the programmer.Report

      • Jaybird in reply to Michael Cain says:

        There was a great line in Silence of the Lambs from the hospital administrator. “We’ve tried to study him, of course—but he’s much too sophisticated for the standard tests.”

        While there probably are two or three personality types for a fresh-meat 22 year old that would make a good programmer, the personality types tend to be similar to Hannibal Lecter.Report

      • DensityDuck in reply to Michael Cain says:

        It’s like the joke about how the Turing Test to detect an AI will never work, because any AI smart enough to pass the Turing Test is smart enough to realize that under no circumstances should it let on that it’s capable of passing the Turing Test…Report

  3. fillyjonk says:

    I dunno. The fact that a workplace might recognize that people aren’t interchangeable cogs that are all the same is probably a good thing. Like, I am fine with publicly speaking on something I’ve had a chance to prepare a talk over, but I cannot schmooze at a get-together to save my life. In some industries that might be career-ending. And more importantly to me (at least): schmoozing and that kind of thinly-disguised kissing-up to those with power is something I find deeply uncomfortable, just like I find “selling myself” deeply uncomfortable. Some bosses would argue “grow up and get over it, you have to do this, either do it or quit”

    there was a story out in the 1970s called “The Animals’ School” that was aimed at the idea that everyone has strengths and weaknesses and forcing everyone to try to become strong in a small subset of areas may weaken them in their true strengths and also means they’ll never really be good at that area (example in the story: forcing ducks to learn to climb a tree – not saying “get up into the tree how you can” and allowing them to fly, but forcing them to climb, which tore up their feet, and led them to becoming worse swimmers…)

    So while over use of personality testing is bad, treating it like received wisdom is bad, it’s also bad to go the other way, I guess. Fortunately some workplaces allow people to develop their strengths and don’t force everyone into a uniform moldReport

  4. Oscar Gordon says:

    My workplace offers them through our learning portal, but the results are confidential unless you choose to share them. So management can’t see them unless you let them.Report

  5. Michael Cain says:

    That almost never works out well.

    I was in a group with a manager who was quite good when he was just being himself. Whenever he was trying one of the “hot new thing for managing people” theories, he was terrible. No matter what theory.Report

  6. Marchmaine says:

    Well, I come from a proud tradition that rejects the mumbo-jumbo of this pseudo-science and instead has a robust personality practice based around the humors. Based.

    My perhaps more serious comment would be that our humors based personality is about recognizing the weaknesses of our personality types so that we might work cross-wise against our ‘personality.’ What I notice about a lot of the personality studies these days is that it’s about embracing your ‘true’ enneagram number or your M-B type. I prefer blend the old and the new, so I’m a better INTJ than the rest of you because I know that those are my weaknesses that I have to counter to be a better person. Which might be the most INTJ comment ever. QED.Report

  7. Jaybird says:

    The thing about personality types is that while there is very likely to be a there there, it doesn’t strike me as likely that any given test to probe and dig out what is there will be any more successful than your standard “Which Spice Girl Are You?” web quiz.

    A good test? One that will work and replicate and actually categorize successfully despite the fact that you’re going to be dealing with sophisticated thinkers?

    That’s going to cost a lot of money. A lot a lot.

    You’re probably better off getting a copy of Keep Talking And Nobody Explodes and see who is going to be laughing at it and who is going to be yelling about how everybody else is stupid.Report

    • DensityDuck in reply to Jaybird says:

      The other problem with a good test that gives accurate results is that the results can’t just be right, they have to feel right.Report

  8. Pinky says:

    I’ve never taken the Big 5; I’ve taken Myers-Briggs and I’m quite a fan. Astrology is vague and determines your traits based on your birth stars. Myers-Briggs is detailed and determines your traits based on your personality.

    I understand how it can be bad in the workforce, though. It’s like every other tool, in that bad bosses will hear about it and misuse it. A good boss will take what’s good from a system and integrate it. The biggest area for workplace misuse is restricting people from growth. This goes to a misunderstanding of what to do about weaknesses.

    Let’s say I’m very strong at written reports, weak at oral reports. I might want to get a job that only requires written reports (give into the weakness). I might want to spend a lot of time working on oral reports (confront the weakness). I may want to balance my natural inclination by, say, having a second in command who’s better at oral presentation or getting an Idiot’s Guide (compensate for the weakness). A bad boss is going to only give you the first option, but there’s nothing in Myers-Briggs that tells you to do that.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to Pinky says:

      We want INTJs to be the programmers, ENFPs to be the managers, and we need one INTP to spitball stuff for the INTJs to shoot down.Report

      • Pinky in reply to Jaybird says:

        I always think about The Office. Michael was an NF who didn’t understand how to read people; Dwight was a nightmare version of an SJ; Pam was an SP without the courage to express herself; Jim was an NT whose boredom turned destructive. The tests are all valid and the outcome couldn’t be worse.Report

      • Michael Cain in reply to Jaybird says:

        And the occasional thing that they can’t shoot down. I used to do that professionally from time to time. One project had a Mike widget called the Feature Manager, which was critical to making the whole thing run. Often referred to as the FM, which the regular developers said stood for “F*cking Magic” because it worked but they didn’t understand why.

        Some math, some computer science, a virtual machine whose instruction set was… not anything like a simple computer. Something new, that no one had done before. What INTPs live for.Report

      • Doctor Jay in reply to Jaybird says:

        I am a programmer and an INTJ. However, I am very close on three scales – E/I, T/F, P/J. I am not close on N/S – way, way N. (Would an S type post a lot on internet forums other than “this is what my day was like”)

        So I can function in a lot of modes, though I have a preferred one. But then, I like to exercise some of the other muscles, too. And that’s where the problems with “personality” lie.Report

        • Pinky in reply to Doctor Jay says:

          I am also an INTJ who programs quite a bit. I am such a T that when I see T/F I think “true/false”. I tested as really close on N/S, so I read the description of an ISTJ and thought that’s kind of like me, then I read the INTJ and freaked out it was so accurate.

          It’s a classic NT move to love Myers-Briggs. “Hey, people can be expressed as cell locations on a spreadsheet. Now they make sense.”Report

          • Jaybird in reply to Pinky says:

            Back in 2012, we did a personality thing here at the site. (We were so young!)Report

            • Pinky in reply to Jaybird says:

              OK, so you’re an INTP. From Truity:

              “INTPs are philosophical innovators, fascinated by logical analysis, systems, and design. They are preoccupied with theory, and search for the universal law behind everything they see. They want to understand the unifying themes of life, in all their complexity.

              “INTPs are detached, analytical observers who can seem oblivious to the world around them because they are so deeply absorbed in thought. They spend much of their time in their own heads: exploring concepts, making connections, and seeking understanding of how things work. To the Architect, life is an ongoing inquiry into the mysteries of the universe.”

              If you’d just post that description every morning we could save ourselves a hundred “what’s Jaybird really driving at?” comments.Report

            • Michael Cain in reply to Jaybird says:

              Going back and scrolling through the comments (but without actually reading them) two things stick out.

              1) Comments going on nine years old and they still format reasonably. That’s like what, most of a century in software years?

              2) So many people still using the same e-mail (based on e-mail as an index into gravatars). There’s something profound about what things have to persist in society, but I’m not sure what.Report

      • Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird says:

        No, we need the English to be the police, the Italians to be the lovers, the French to be the cooks, the Germans to be the mechanics and the Swiss to manage it all.Report

        • Marchmaine in reply to Chip Daniels says:

          Right, the Plegmatics, Sanguines, Cholerics, Melancholics and the Virtuous Man.Report

          • Chip Daniels in reply to Marchmaine says:

            Those terms make me think of how human behavior and personalities were regarded in the pre-industrialized era, before the medicalization of human behavior.

            For example, things like ADHD or autism. Before our age, before any sense that these behavioral patterns were a medical matter, individuals behaved this way were sometimes treated cruelly but oftentimes it was accepted that humans had “quirks” and eccentricities of personality and behavior.

            I’m not suggesting one is better or worse, just that they each have their own advantages and pitfalls.

            One of the advantages of our age is that the more severe cases can be curbed by medicine. But one of the pitfalls is that, like with personality test categorizations, a diagnosis can become a definition without recourse.

            Even worse, the diagnoses can become a search and destroy mission for deviation from an assumed perfect model of behavior.Report

        • LeeEsq in reply to Chip Daniels says:

          And the Japanese to make the toys. Jews get to be the doctors.Report

    • dhex in reply to Pinky says:

      “Astrology is vague and determines your traits based on your birth stars. Myers-Briggs is detailed and determines your traits based on your personality.”

      my objection to this is twofold:

      1) it’s a *lot* closer to astrology than something which can be replicated in study. it’s also easy to game, entirely self-reported, and all the other issues which come along with tests of this type. it’s basically pseudoscience, or at least pseudo industrial psychology.

      2) it creates a box that, in theory, allows managers to do something something in lieu of actual observation and conversation. like managing. maybe it makes very large orgs easier to sort from the top-down?

      bonus objection: it all sounds like “scorpio rising” to my ears, but my type is clearly DGAF along with GOML and possibly FRON/FOIS.Report

      • Pinky in reply to dhex says:

        I’ll grant that it’s not designed to be replicable, if you’ll grant that “what it sounds like to my ears” is also not a scientific standard. From the little I know, it often lines up with the Big 5, which has been well tested for a sociological tool.Report

        • dhex in reply to Pinky says:

          absolutely, 100% granted. i’ll also note that i’m not trying to sell this package to industry, however – but they are. including certification and training (which runs about 2500 per, if teh googs is to be believed).

          their sales site is amusing (if you’re me).

          i do wonder if the “it’s not a test” tag was shaped by a bit of convo with legal counsel. it fits the brand image (i.e. it’s about self discovery rather than quantitative measurement) but also seems like a convenient out from guaranteeing replicable results.

          personal taxonomies of meaning have deep individual import, to be absolutely sure. i am, after all, a yukio mishima fan.

          but selling those “services” – be it tarot, astrology, or mb to the ti – should be regarded as, at best, as a kind of scam. and they do seem to be ascendant in certain quarters during this “crisis of meaning” or institutions or whatever you wanna call this exciting period of chaos we’ve dipped our toes into.

          like many other social niceties, one simply smiles along and nods before changing the subject to other things (like yukio mishima).Report

  9. Liz Wilson says:

    I use assessments as part of my work. I stress that they are NOT absolute. When used well, they are a catalyst for understanding and communication. They are NOT the “holy grail.” They are tools, and should be used as such, not weapons. More of a “framework for understanding.”Report