The Derek Chauvin Trial is winding down, with closing arguments expected today before the case goes to the jury. You can watch it for yourself here and discuss.
NOTE: The live stream will play the previous court day until it goes live so refreshing might be required:
LIVE: Derek Chauvin trial closing arguments
Andrew Donaldson
Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has been the Managing Editor of Ordinary Times since 2018, is a widely published opinion writer, and appears in media, radio, and occasionally as a talking head on TV. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter@four4thefire. Andrew is the host of Heard Tell podcast. Subscribe to Andrew'sHeard Tell Substack for free here:
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on Open Mic for the week of 2/3/2025This is great! We should do this for all parts of government.
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on Open Mic for the week of 2/3/2025This seems troublingly plausible.
on Open Mic for the week of 2/3/2025He didn't get fired, he resigned. It doesn't seem like he was asked to resign. I think he just final… on Open Mic for the week of 2/3/2025Do we have any money guys? The whole "Donor-Advised-Fund" thing seems shady but I am being assured t… on Open Mic for the week of 2/3/2025People are stranded in the middle of clinical trials including with devices implanted in them becaus…
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As we wait for a verdict, keep in mind the comments about Afro-pessimism, and whether it is warranted.
I hope not. But I fear it may be.Report
Saw a lot of takes that explained that the Defense had good days.
Saw a lot of takes that explained that the Prosecution hit it out of the park.
I suspect that we’ll return to the concept of “Mens Rea” when it comes to this sort of thing. (Pity that we only trot that out when one of the authorities is on trial.)Report
This is an interesting point, and I have to wonder why it’s not a valid defense when a citizen is on trial for an unintentional crossing of the law? I mean, that’s the whole problem with QI, isn’t it?Report
For what it’s worth (and I’m sure you’re not surprised), *I* think that “mens rea” is hugely important for citizens and should pretty much enter into it at the same level that the cops get it.
I think that prosecutors don’t emphasize it with citizens is that it lets too many off the hook.
And I think that the reason that prosecutors emphasize it with law enforcement is that it lets too many off the hook.Report
It seems possible that both things are true: the prosecution did well and the defense did well. I didn’t follow the particulars of the trial but I generally think we need avoid assuming that the outcome directly correlates to the quality of the effort put forth by each side.Report
I just googled “Reasonable Doubt”.
The first entry is to https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/
Here we go:
(this is copied/pasted from Google, not even clicking through… emphasis in original.)
I haven’t followed the trial closely enough to know whether I think that 2nd Degree is a shoo-in or that it’s more likely to end up being 3rd Degree.
If I wanted to shoot from the hip, I’d say that 3rd Degree is the charge that the state keeps in their back pocket for police officers who kill someone particularly egregiously in the course of doing their job and so that seems like the most likely outcome to me in a vacuum.
But we are not in a vacuum.
So… all that to say, I’m not saying that the quality of the effort is required to find guilty or to acquit. I’m saying that the quality of the effort probably speaks to how big the window of “Reasonable Doubt” is.
And, for some reason, doubts become a lot more reasonable when we’re talking about cops than when we’re talking about non-cops.Report
I think it will probably take a while for us to have a verdict. The cynic in me states that the shorter deliberations are likely to mean acquittal. There is a reasonable chance of a hung jury. Perhaps the jury will find a compromise verdict on a really lesser charge.
In terms of public reaction, I expect one for anything less the most severe possibility. Maybe even then.Report
Okay. They’re coming back early.
The general consensus is that a fast jury is a convicting jury.Report
Huh. Guilty on all of the big ones.
Report
New post upReport