MAGA Civil War Breaks Out In Georgia

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24 Responses

  1. Avatar North
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    says:

    That sounds like an outcome the GOP richly deserves and needs.Report

    • Avatar Marchmaine in reply to North
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      says:

      Yeah… if it continues, it’s the birth of a third party. What’s weird and confusing is that the ‘new’ party is called Republican and the old party is ‘other’ or ‘not-Republican’ – so far, at least.

      Otherwise it is following similar patterns where the new party poaches chunks of the old party while old party struggles to re-define or re-align.

      In the end, the new-party causes the old party to lose and lose bigly until the realignment crosses over. It’s sort-of why we don’t get 3rd parties… which is the undertone of the post. A lament. I see it as nature healing.Report

      • Avatar North in reply to Marchmaine
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        says:

        Indeed, I got to see it in Canada first hand in my teenage years when the right wing shattered into the Tories and the Reform party after Kim Campbells’ brief tenure. That took about a decade and, to be frank, the Canadian right wing was nowhere near as decayed as the American right has become. Then again Canada is a multi-party parliamentary system whereas the US is a two party duopoly so obviously the process will be very different.

        And, of course, the Canadian right schismed over questions tactics and success really. Whereas the American right is having a crisis of core principles. I have no fishing idea what the GOP is going to look like in a couple cycles.Report

      • Avatar Pinky in reply to Marchmaine
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        says:

        The 1968 peace movement, the Moral Majority of the late 70’s, the Tea Party, the Bernie Bros…this happens. Sometimes they’re successful, sometimes they manage to bring a new issue or approach to the party, and sometimes their energy gets dissipated.

        This one doesn’t appear to be motivated by ideology, but by retaliation. If so, the solution is simple: the party has to encourage the targets of the retaliation not to run again. Put up a clean slate of normies against the revolutionaries. Even the “normies” don’t have to be particularly normal, as long as they constitute a de-escalation.Report

        • Avatar Kazzy in reply to Pinky
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          says:

          But will they just shift their target?

          Do they really want retaliation? Or just an outlet for their upset? If the latter, they’ll keep firing until they run out of steam.Report

        • Avatar Marchmaine in reply to Pinky
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          says:

          I see this as the negative side of not being able to have 3rd parties.

          The problem (as I see it) is that the ‘normies’ of the republican party a’la Romney are, in fact, the biggest losers… there’s no returning to Romney. In fact, Romney has remade himself into an anti-Bain-anti-Capital-Romney.

          New Romney wouldn’t vote for Old Romney… but New Romney isn’t a ‘normie’ Republican, but a New-as-yet-undisclosed-party Romney.

          Does that make sense? The ‘normie’ Republicans really don’t have a home because there isn’t a party for them. And going back to the aughts would put them in the political wilderness of a head with no body. There isn’t a slate of normies that would stem the tide… a slate of ‘Chamber-of-Commerce” normies would probably escalate the rout.Report

          • Avatar North in reply to Marchmaine
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            says:

            I agree. There’s this dysfunction, the gap, between the libertarianish elite money folks and the actual voting masses of the GOP and it’s become too severe to ignore. They papered over this disconnect with the culture war and with militarism but those causes don’t work as well any more. Militarism has been utterly discredited for probably a generation or two now and the culture war has A) only suffered a series of major defeats in public opinion and B) the voting masses of the GOP have realized that the elites don’t actually share their culture war goals.

            What comes next? I have no idea. But the 90’s and aughts form of Republitarianism, like militarism, may be discredited for some time. Probably until/unless the easy money times lead around to something like stagflation again. And even if that does come about, that’d call more for a revival of genuine libertarianism than it would the peculiar phenomena of repiblitarianism.Report

            • Avatar Marchmaine in reply to North
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              says:

              I don’t know what comes next either; Rubio is interesting to watch because he’s so beholden to the old-regime (money) that whenever he tries to straddle a normie/next-gen position he does so with such transparent strings being pulled that you can see how the rhetoric won’t result in new policies… just a gloss on the old.Report

          • Avatar Pinky in reply to Marchmaine
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            says:

            My whole life I’ve been hearing similar descriptions of the imminent breakdown of the GOP. Actually, slightly longer than that, from what I’ve read about the 1964 election. The Dems are less frequently characterized in that way but it happens. And some day, the prediction will come true, and I’m sure the forecaster will be praised for his insight.

            I’m increasingly convinced that history moves in a way that the “Great Man” and “Forces of History” people both get a little bit wrong. There are tensions that anyone can see, and there are key moments of free will that you can’t forecast. The Muslim world was messed up for years before the Arab Spring, but one action triggered what followed, and the particular twists and turns of that story could all be understood in retrospect but not predicted as they happened.

            So if you want to tell a story about the Republican Party bursting asunder…yeah, it’s possible.Report

            • Avatar Marchmaine in reply to Pinky
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              says:

              Sure… the GOP is dead, long live the GOP… that’s the reality of a two-party Duopoly. I’m not making any sort of grand theory claim – certainly not for something so petty as a political party.

              I do think it curious if someone were to think that belonging to the party of Goldwater was the same thing as the party of Trump… I’d say it’s more like standing in a river… you can say your are in the Republican River, but the issues, people, and flow are totally different.

              Some? Many? Most? don’t necessarily notice the difference one year over the next… but after a while, all that’s left is party affiliation and Some? Many? Most? realize the Party is or isn’t what they think it ought to be.

              Which is why I’m not predicting the end of the Republican Party… just that the shift is more likely to leave the Normies behind than bring them to the front in a ‘corrective’ move – because what’s the Normie platform that ends the ‘retaliation’ (to borrow your term)?

              In what way is 2021 Romney not another retaliation against Normies? Plus, there aren’t slates of Normies lining up to contest the takeover… is Eric Cantor lining up to take back the seat he lost to Brat who lost it to a Democrat? I’d suggest that the defections against the normies pre-dates Trump… but Trump as the manifestation of the symptom doesn’t make the symptoms go away when he leaves.

              The Normies were the original problem… Trump is just a bad outcome.Report

              • Avatar Jaybird in reply to Marchmaine
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                says:

                I also think that the whole “fashionable” thing is currently in the process of biting the Democrats in the butt.

                It is fashionable to have a “D” after your name on the ballot.

                Having your kids go to school with those kids? Much less fashionable.

                So you are stuck with some of the most Progressive cities in the US having so-called “Apartheid” school districts.

                It’s fashionable to call yourself a Democrat (or a Socialist).

                Actually being one is not required.Report

              • Avatar Marchmaine in reply to Jaybird
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                says:

                For Democrats, it’s nice to pick-up increasing numbers of ex-Republican voters; it is less nice when those voters influence the Democrats in directions that make them look like ex-Republicans who switched Soc-Con platitudes for Soc-Lib platitudes.

                We don’t have a Middle political identity, we have a Middle anti-identity.Report

            • Avatar Chip Daniels in reply to Pinky
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              says:

              Yeah, like Pinky, I have been hearing constant predictions of the imminent demise of the GOP, and they keep holding on to power.

              I’m especially doubtful of this alleged “civil war”.

              Where have any non-Trumpists won a primary or attracted strong support?

              Maybe Georgia will be the first- But so far, the Trumpist faction seems to have an absolute uncontested grip on the GOP.Report

    • Avatar Slade the Leveller in reply to North
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      says:

      Right? I’m not seeing the downside here.Report

  2. Avatar Chip Daniels
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    says:

    The only takeaway the Republicans have from the Jan.6 attack on democracy is that next time they will try harder.Report

  3. Avatar Mike Schilling
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    says:

    Don’t call it a civil war; it’s the war between the slates.Report

  4. Avatar Michael Cain
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    says:

    I have had considerable sympathy for Raffensperger since I read that he ran for Secretary of State on a “Georgia’s business registration, licensing, and tracking system is an antique and a disgrace and should be fixed” platform and that he has done a good job of that. Then backed into the election buzzsaw.Report

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