How ACORN Stole the 2012 Election
NYRB‘s Mark Danner has a nice retrospective on the election (remember that?) that takes a view of the country both high and low. There’s a hefty dose of the What It All Means pontifications any election wrap-up inspires, if not needs; and there’s some good stuff from Danner’s experiences milling about the partisan crowds in the waning days of the contest. This bit in particular jumped out at me:
It is a peculiarity of this election that the Republicans embraced up until and indeed after the moment of voting a conviction that the entire public information and polling apparatus of the country, with a few exceptions, was lying. “All of it, the reporters, the commentators, all the damn so-called ‘news’—and the polls, especially the polls, you can’t trust any of it,” a retired businessman told me in early October at a Romney rally in Port St. Lucie, Florida. “I mean, who the hell are they talking to? Not any of us, certainly,” he said, sweeping his arm in an arc around him. And, turning away, “They’re all in the bag for Obama. Can’t believe a word of it.”
This was in the wake of the first debate, when Obama, faltering and shuffling about behind his podium with downturned eyes, had shown himself to be what they had always known he was: a myth and a fraud, a dark nightmare version of the tiny wizard quailing behind the immense Oz-like image built of him in 2008 and still sustained by the press and the commentariat and the grasping members of the 47 percent. “You saw what he really was, once you take away his teleprompter”—I heard this again and again from Romney supporters. Obama was a fake, a fabrication of the liberal media and of those who drew sustenance from the programs of dependency he distributed like so much candy.
To his credit Danner notes that the American hard-right has always believed, as a universal truth, in its own marginalization and oppression. You could trace it to the 1952 Republican convention, when Senator Robert Taft, a lonely but lionized conservative operating in the post-New Deal era of RINOs, lost the nomination to General Dwight Eisenhower. You could mark the starting date as Barry Goldwater’s 1964 campaign, which is widely considered to be the genesis of today’s rightwing counter-establishment. Or you could go even farther back, to the Know Nothings of the mid-19th century. As Corey Robin would argue, these roots run deep (so ignore ahistorical pleas for a supposedly bygone era).
Reading Danner’s interactions with representatives of the contemporary right, I thought about this week’s Public Policy Polling release and its schadenfreude-y finding that 49 percent of Republicans believe the years-defunct ACORN stole the election for the president. That triggered a healthy dose of chuckling on the left, somewhat justifiably — or as justifiably as any of the petty post-election gloating can be. Still, if you read what Danner’s “retired businessman” has to say, or if you were following any of the rightwing blogs in the final weeks before November 6, the Republican base’s faith in a grand conspiracy is actually somewhat logical. Emphasis on somewhat.
The most rational conclusion to draw would be that the rightwing media is detached from reality. But if your identity is far too enmeshed with political conservatism to allow a split from MiniTruth, then the only possible explanation for the disparity between what you expected and what you received is fraud. And at that point who’s to say whether or not ACORN really disbanded?
Kevin Drum considers this part of the Fox News Effect. NewsCorp and other places have created a perfect sealed chamber that allows them to believe this stuff. Our own Tod Kelly noted how the 24/7 drumbeat of hysteria has created a frenzy for many non-scandals.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/12/fox-news-effect-republicans-still-think-acorn-alive-and-stealing-elections
And as I have mentioned before, Richard Hofstatder’s The Paranoid Style in American Politics is probably the smartest and most insightful essay ever written about the American political system. Everything Hofstatder wrote then can apply to the right today. There has always been a sizeable minority of the American right that is outright nuts. They see themselves as the only defenders of freedom and values. Keep in mind that I have no idea what they mean by freedom but it is certainly not anything that comes to my mind when thinking about the word.Report
David Frum had commentary on it barely a year ago:
http://nymag.com/news/politics/conservatives-david-frum-2011-11/
But the thought leaders on talk radio and Fox do more than shape opinion. Backed by their own wing of the book-publishing industry and supported by think tanks that increasingly function as public-relations agencies, conservatives have built a whole alternative knowledge system, with its own facts, its own history, its own laws of economics. Outside this alternative reality, the United States is a country dominated by a strong Christian religiosity. Within it, Christians are a persecuted minority. Outside the system, President Obama—whatever his policy errors—is a figure of imposing intellect and dignity. Within the system, he’s a pitiful nothing, unable to speak without a teleprompter, an affirmative-action phony doomed to inevitable defeat. Outside the system, social scientists worry that the U.S. is hardening into one of the most rigid class societies in the Western world, in which the children of the poor have less chance of escape than in France, Germany, or even England. Inside the system, the U.S. remains (to borrow the words of Senator Marco Rubio) “the only place in the world where it doesn’t matter who your parents were or where you came from.”
We used to say “You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.” Now we are all entitled to our own facts, and conservative media use this right to immerse their audience in a total environment of pseudo-facts and pretend information.Report
I read this last year as well. Frum is an interesting guy. He is certainly conservative in many ways to the core. I doubt we would believe in the same policies to solve problems but he certainly understands what is going on the right and that it is not good.
Or as TNC says: Liberals have a media, conservatives have a press office (paraphrase).Report
TVD and at least one other regular poster here were questioning the very validity of polling the week before the election. (As well as making some truly amusing claims about statistics, even if I doubt they saw it that way).
But what struck me wasn’t polling denialism — it was TVD’s firm, fervent belief that Benghazi was gonna bring down the President even if he won. It was a coverup and a scandal and god knows what else (he didn’t commit, just linked to people with paranoid theories and speculated that it was ‘bigger than liberals thought’).
Like Fast and Furious was. Like Solyandra was. Each and every scandal is the one that WILL bring down the President, even if no one outside of Fox has even heard of it.Report
Not regular posters. “Regular commenters”. Sorry. 🙂Report
I doubt “ACORN” stole the election, but Bertha Lewis says they are stronger than ever under new names. The Root interview might be a rightwing fabrication, though.
The Root: After ACORN disbanded, many chapters reorganized under new names. How are they faring a year later?
Bertha Lewis: There are 18 independent organizations around the country. Some of the old ACORN chapters were combined, with several states becoming one entity. We learned great lessons from our tribulations, and we decided that organizing by any other name is still organizing. The former chapters and their boards incorporated themselves, renamed themselves and made sure that the reforms I had been putting in place around structure, financial management and operations were carried on. I’m happy to say that they’re very strong, and we’re in about 25 states.
Glenn Beck and the conservative right actually helped us create 18 bulletproof community-organizing Frankensteins that they’re going to have a very hard time attacking. We owned up to what our weaknesses were, we were realistic about our strengths, and so these new entities are carrying on ACORN’s work of organizing low- and moderate-income folks. Thank you very much, Rush Limbaugh.Report
I didn’t know about this, I’m glad you mentioned it.Report
Nothing so frightening as organized low and moderate-income folks!Report
Levelers!Report
I didn’t say it was bad, so I don’t know what you’re referring to — I’m just saying Acorn exists in different forms and that’s pertinent to the post. You people are so defensive it’s silly. Stay on subject and admit when you are wrong.Report
I’m all for people forming associations and fighting for their causes in a free market — it’s what characterized America for a long time. These groups fight for progressive causes — libertarians fight for their causes — conservatives for theirs — and may the best ideas win — competition, you gotta love it.Report
As a matter of fact, I was part of Leftist associations in the late sixties and early seventies — that was when the Left was anti-establsihment, not patsies for the State that many are today.Report
Operation Sandy was fun.
Do get involved!
(or if that’s not your taste in
cheerfully anarchic movements
May I suggest Anonymous?)Report
As another matter of fact, the pointless attacks on conservatives with the content of the attacks stretched to convey absurdity is childish. If you would look in the progressive mirror you would find fresh material for your theater of the absurd.Report
There’s one thing I just don’t understand: what’s wrong, what’s fraudulent, about organizing low and moderate income folk?
That seems the root of the accusations of racism Republicans get the left; the perception that the right deems organizing those folk a fraud; that they’re not entitled to vote. Combined with the knowledge that many black/hispanic voters are low income and the notion that Republican efforts to restrict voting rights with things like ID requirements fall heavily on minority voters, it does seem to add up to racism.
It feels to me, as a lefty, that the code has just switched for n-word to poor. Is there any other way to explain it? Because we’ve got fraud and election theft on the right, and voter disenfranchisement and racism on the left, all while describing the effort to get Americans to participate in the electoral process.Report
what’s wrong, what’s fraudulent, about organizing low and moderate income folk?
The right wing dislikes the fact that low and moderate income folk don’t tend to vote their way. That’s really it – it’s about the “wrong people” voting in higher numbers due to organizing.
And the GOP, or at least some GOP officials, are now admitting that they had deliberate intent to engage in voter suppression with voter ID laws and that GOP cries about “voter fraud” were a mere pretext.Report
They’re uppity and don’t know their place….and want stuff.Report
Don’t forget eliminating women’s sufferage. Because women are too “flighty” to vote republican.Report
has anyone actually said that?Report
Ann Coulter said that fwiwReport
Todd Akin’s probably saying it as well, right?Report
I don’t believe that there’s ill will on either side of the argument about loosening up the voting process. One side genuinely wants to make it easier for more people to vote, and fears that the other side is motivated by racism. The other side is worried about integrity, and suspects the other side of voter fraud. If we could get past the idea that the other side is trying to cheat, we could maybe construct some decent laws.Report
And if Charlie Crist and other people who were in on the creation of the ID laws would stop saying in public that they were intended to suppress Democratic votes, we might be able to believe otherwise.Report
Are MA, Nob, and Kim serious? Not a sarcastic question.Report
Ann Coulter’s the current guppy. She’s just the start. I predict that they’ll run more women laying out the same line, until it becomes a right wing meme, and then Limbaugh and the others can start riffing on it.
Five Years until actual bills for eliminating women’s right to vote start hitting conference.
This is why, I kneel and pray that we get a conservative party around here.Report
Ann Coulter, 2007: http://observer.com/2007/10/coulter-culture/
If we took away women’s right to vote, we’d never have to worry about another Democrat president. It’s kind of a pipe dream, it’s a personal fantasy of mine, but I don’t think it’s going to happen. And it is a good way of making the point that women are voting so stupidly, at least single women.
It also makes the point, it is kind of embarrassing, the Democratic Party ought to be hanging its head in shame, that it has so much difficulty getting men to vote for it. I mean, you do see it’s the party of women and ‘We’ll pay for health care and tuition and day care — and here, what else can we give you, soccer moms?’
Ann Coulter, 2012:
I’ll link the video. Said that women shouldn’t be able to vote, and proposed raising the voting age to 26 to eliminate younger voters too.Report
Could you not compromise and take away Ann Coulter’s right to vote?Report
Pinky: Jim Greer and Charlie Crist are now admitting that the GOP’s rhetoric about “voter fraud” was a facade, a fraud; the entire reasoning for the push on Voter ID and the elimination or reduction of early voting days was to disenfranchise and suppress the vote of demographic groups (mostly minorities) that the GOP isn’t strong with.
This is factual. And I am completely serious in pointing it out.
Every time the veil slips on the GOP, there’s an effort to cover it back up, but the veil has slipped. The evidence is damning as to what the GOP base really believes and holds to, and there is a large amount of it that is sexist and/or racist.
We might also get into their disdain for the 1st amendment, the incredibly anti-science behavior; packing state boards of education with creationists when given the chance, putting creationists like Paul Broun who believe evolution, climate science and embryology are “lies from the pit of hell” on the House Committee on Science and Technology.
There are serious problems with the GOP. Serious problems resulting from becoming so hyper-partisan within their bubble that they cannot see what is around them. I’ve learned to watch my words very carefully around some otherwise good people I consider friends, simply because disagreement on any number of topics results in spittle-flying invective about the “muslim kenyan usurper.”
The worst part is that the GOP leadership doesn’t work to fix the issue, instead they play the game of dog-whistling. If there are currently votes to be had pandering to isolationist, xenophobic, racist fools then they will pander to isolationist, xenophobic, racist fools and the good of the nation and progress of society be damned.Report
Charlie Crist is not the most Republican-friendly source. Ann Coulter has made a career out of saying shocking things, not out of issuing policy proposals that the Republican Party then embraces. I think you’re way off on this. And hey, everyone’s entitled to be way off on something, but in this case I think it’s sowing the seeds of unwarranted suspicion. My suggestion: talk to 5 conservatives / Republicans you trust. If you still believe that one of the two major parties is out to disenfranchise most of the country, I can’t stop you.Report
http://tracypress.com/view/full_story/20225218/article-Town-Crier–Current-GOP-neglects-own-voting-rights-history?instance=home_opinion_lead_story
http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Republicans-Backtrack-on-Womens-Suffrage-167698885.html
http://verdict.justia.com/2012/09/06/the-2012-republican-party-platform
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/opinion/perspectives/well-it-is-a-war-republicans-have-tried-to-limit-womens-rights-at-every-turn-639149/
Links.
I do not say that they are out now to do so, only that they have taken the
first faltering steps towards that direction.
I say that they shall do so five years into the future.
Desperation is far from a pretty sight.Report
My suggestion: talk to 5 conservatives / Republicans you trust. If you still believe that one of the two major parties is out to disenfranchise most of the country, I can’t stop you.
Since I haven’t told you where I live, or who most of my friends are, you lack the information on that score. But trust me when I say I’ve spoken to more than 5.
I say this sincerely: one of the two major parties IS out to disenfranchise a significant portion (not “most”, just enough to swing elections their way) of the population.
They cut our early-voting times by almost half this year and the local GOP politicians were unabashed and quite sincere about the fact that they were doing it because early-voters tended to go for Obama in 2008 and that had meant coattails for Dem-leaning party-line voters. Cutting early-voting was all about suppressing and making it more inconvenient again for those who weren’t voting straight-ticket GOP.Report
No, they aren’t.Report
I might point out that it’s mighty rude of you to answer for others, especially when two of us have already answered the other way.Report
I might point out that Pinky was asking the group of commenters and that I don’t care what you consider rude. Do you mean to say that Nob was serious when he wrote — “They’re uppity and don’t know their place….and want stuff.”
I will be glad to change it to Nob is serious about what he wrote.Report
I might also point out that you are a whiner, and it’s very unattractive. You seem like the type who would lobby the editors to ban a post, comment or a person. Plus, your writing is not interesting in the least.Report
If you’re bitter about TVD, I should make it clear that M.A. didn’t lobby. And if he had lobbied, I would have done my best to ignore it.
But I wonder why anyone would be bitter about the banning of someone who repeatedly engaged in race-baiting. If this were a paid publication, I would have fired TVD. So would many other much more conservative publications than the League.Report
“But I wonder why anyone would be bitter about the banning of someone who repeatedly engaged in race-baiting.”
Well, obviously because I’m a racist protecting my own kind. You have become as bad as the rest. This is sad. If you’d bother to think just a bit rather than reflexively defend your position, you might surmise that M.A. has been the most closemided on the board, and that one of you defenders of the League had said that people lobby for almost everyone on the board to get banned, right? So, why would you imply it’s because I’m pissed about TVD? Then imply I’m defending a racist? I swear, you all have turned into automaton defenders of whatever the hell it is that you have here. I don’t know what it is you have here or why you’re defending it like this, but it looks to me like change is needed more than blind reaction and wild accusations against anyone who doesn’t toe the line. You are pitiful.Report
They aren’t?Report
But Robert Byrd! And Chappaquiddick! And Al Gore is fat!Report
If Ted Kennedy was fatter, maybe Chappaquiddick wouldn’t have happened.Report
Because rich guys can’t get girls unless they’re good-looking?Report
Because he wouldn’t have fit behind the wheel.Report
They are?Report
Will they support felons convicted on only drug crimes to vote? Because the drug war (and the racially unequal way that it has been prosecuted) has disenfranchised a lot of black men.Report
Barack Obama’s GOTV campaign was far more sophisticated than the clunky old ACORN model. In this election Obama fielded a set of online tools called Dashboard.
Team Obama beat the GOP all the way around the block before Rush Limbaugh could finish adjusting his neck tie in the morning. The GOP is, to put it plainly, incapable of adapting to social networking. They only understand one-way communications. Those days are gone forever.
Housing reform goes on apace. It’s going on here in New Orleans under many different names. ACORN isn’t part of any of it. ACORN failed the accountability test long before Barack Obama even began to run for office. I knew who they were, back in Chicago, and thought something was sorta iffy about them.
I don’t believe community organising or housing reform advocates should take sides in politics: it only opens their supporters up to charges of paying off friends, never a good place for any organisation to put its donors and/or supporters. Either run for office or get out of the community organising line of work. Let the politicians come to you, let them back your positions. Don’t back theirs. Voter registration drives aren’t outright support for a candidate: efforts of that sort are meant to get residents to vote for referendums affecting the community. No harm done there by my lights.
The GOP hates community organising and voter registration drives. They do everything in their power to raise the barrier to the voting franchise. But it’s funny: within their own enclaves, they do attempt to register their own, often within churches and businesses. The GOP seems to focus on the ACORNs of this nation, precisely because that’s how they organise themselves.Report
But it’s funny: within their own enclaves, they do attempt to register their own, often within churches and businesses.
I’ve often thought the best window into how the GOP thinks and operates is the things they accuse liberals of doing. It’s hard to refrain from measuring others with your own yardstick.Report
The GOP never really knew what hit them. I’m put in mind of that scene from Star Wars, Luke is flying toward the Death Star, everyone around him is getting shot to pieces, in the gritty flanged radio traffik we hear “Stay on Target!” They really hoped Romney would blow up Darth Obama’s Death Star, that somehow the Force would take over, that there would be a triumphal march at the end of an improbably heroic struggle.
It doesn’t work that way in politics. There is no Staying On Target. Political parties are about winning elections, not preaching sermons. It’s only comparable to a war, covering ground, identifying allies and opponents. But mostly it’s about General Sherman’s adage, being firstest with the mostest, being nimbler and better informed.
The GOP is not going to fix this problem any time soon. Their demographics are just awful. The GOP is trying to adapt but I just don’t see them making headway in urban demographics, where the votes are. It’s a simple matter of logistics, there’s more ground to cover in rural areas where the GOP is strongest.
To win, the GOP will have to give up some dearly-beloved positions and make inroads in the Blue Cities. I just don’t see the GOP leadership (also in demographic trouble, dominated as it is by Old Crocodiles) making those changes. Even if they run Marco Rubio or someone young enough to bring some vitality to their positions, they’d have to back off their ignorant fearmongering and they just won’t get there.Report
I don’t believe community organising or housing reform advocates should take sides in politics: it only opens their supporters up to charges of paying off friends, never a good place for any organisation to put its donors and/or supporters. Either run for office or get out of the community organising line of work. Let the politicians come to you, let them back your positions. Don’t back theirs. Voter registration drives aren’t outright support for a candidate: efforts of that sort are meant to get residents to vote for referendums affecting the community. No harm done there by my lights.
+1Report
I have personally participated in Republican-sponsored voter registration drives in lower-income and Hispanic communities. What you’re saying is false.Report
Why does the GOP so consistently oppose motor-voter and many other such initiatives?Report
Because it’s wrong to expect voters to have Driver’s Licenses?Report
Because forging Driver’s Licenses isn’t something that any 17 year old kid could get done for less than a Franklin…Report
Huh…yes it is an odd assumption. Many disabled people can’t drive. Plenty of poor people and people who live in cites don’t drive because they can’t afford cars and have evil socialized public transportation to fall back on.Report
Well some people don’t need drivers licenses. Should they be required to vote when other ID is available? That’s a curious position for you to espouse Jay me lad. Should I be checking you for a goatee?Report
Motor Voter is a catch-all term for capturing information gathered in the course of interacting with government, such as drivers’ licence facilities or government social services. By 1995, all the states were supposed to be compliant with the National Voter Registration Act, which also allowed independent voter registration drives.
But it’s still a big ongoing issue.Report
This. Motor voter is a bit misleading. The registration forms are basically available at all government offices; at least all those offering services to citizens.Report
Just like they should oppose registering at libraries, because you don’t have to be able to read.Report
Specifically – Increases in voter registration, combined with early voting, absentee voting, provisional voting, and the lack of an ID, all combine to increase the possibility of mistakes or fraud.
Generally – For the reasons they say. If we can’t assume good faith on the part of our opponents, we’re in trouble.Report
After 5 decades of the GOP constantly proving they aren’t engaging in good faith, we’re already in trouble.Report
Specifically – Increases in voter registration without verification and without removal of previous addresses, combined with early voting, absentee voting, provisional voting, and the lack of an ID, all combine to increase the possibility of mistakes or fraud.
Generally – For the reasons they say. If we can’t assume good faith on the part of our opponents, we’re in trouble.Report
This problem should have been solved in 1995. It clearly isn’t solved. If we’re to assume good faith on the part of our opponents and recognise the problems inherent in fraud, why then are we still fighting this battle in Anno Domini 2012? The GOP has made its rhetorical bed very hard and must not complain overmuch if it is now made to lie down in that bed. The GOP has consistently demonstrated bad faith on this issue since the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and continues to do so to this very day.Report
The Republican Party championed the Voting Rights Act of 1965. It implemented policies that had been in the Civil Rights Act of 1957 by Eisenhower, but were removed by Johnson in the Senate. In 1965, there were 19 votes against it in the Senate, 17 of those were Democrats. (In the House, both parties contributed relatively equally to the nay votes.)Report
And If you ran Ike (even Zombie Ike), I’d vote for him in a redhot minute.
Hell, I’d vote for Nixon if you ran him.Report
And only a hundred years before that, it passed the 15th Amendment.Report
…and implemented Reconstruction, and fought against the Klan, and opposed lynchings, and reintegrated the military…Report
Yeah. When did those guys turn into Strom Thurmond? (Though it was Harry Truman who integrated the US military.)Report
It was mostly Eisenhower in 1944, then Eisenhower as president actually getting it done, undoing racist Woodrow Wilson’s work. Strom did switch parties, but if you look into it, most of the Democratic politicians in the South stayed loyal to their party.Report
Preez to read what was said “Since the VRA”. The GOP welcomed the Dixiecrats in with open arms thereafter.Report
Parties do typically welcome new voters. But the Southern slide toward the Republicans can be seen in the data going back to the 1930’s. And don’t forget the military tradition of the South – the Democrats alienated a lot of the South with their stand against the Vietnam War in 1968. And also, don’t forget about the fact that the South was still largely Republican in representation into the 1980’s. So the usual depiction of the Republican Party as the new Party of Racism is largely myth.Report
Dang it. I’m just doing typos all over the place. That should read “still largely Democratic”. Bull Connor and his gang stayed in power for a long time, loyally Democratic.Report
The military tradition of the South (rolls eyes to heaven) had nothing to do with the mass exodus of the bigots from the Democratic Party. Nixon’s Southern Strategy was one long, vicious dog whistle.Report
KnowNothings are still KnowNothings. Better to call them xenophobes than racists, as it better conforms to their policies.Report
Really, name-calling and eye-rolling? How about counter-arguments?Report
Hey – I just thought of something funny. BlaiseP is calling Kim a racist. I mean, if Kim would have supported Nixon, she’s gotta be, right? The dog whistle and all?Report
Pinky,
Oh, come now sir! Blaise and you can do better than THAT!
If you’re going to call me a racist, have the balls to say it yourself,
and back it up yourself.
Who knows, you might even be right!Report
Republican candidates in the South were running on “states’ rights” coded racism starting in 1948. Their first full-on Southern Strategy campaign was 1968.
Reagan started his 1980 campaign by championing “States’ Rights” while standing on the graves of murdered Freedom Summer voter registration volunteers in Philadelphia, MS and then continued on to constantly vilify blacks during the rest of the campaign.
Charlie Crist rips his own party’s dishonesty about voter ID and the best you can come up with to describe a Republican former state governor is to call him “not the most Republican-friendly source.” Lawrence Wilkerson comes out and says “Let me just be candid: My party is full of racists, and the real reason a considerable portion of my party wants President Obama out of the White House has nothing to do with the content of his character, nothing to do with his competence as commander in chief and president, and everything to do with the color of his skin, and that’s despicable” and the howls echo from the right wing to have him expelled from the GOP.
Scott Walker, stooge in chief of the not-so-great state of Wisconsin, was in a public television debate with David Duke in 1992 and stated the Wisconsin GOP’s position on Duke’s racial supremacism, anti-semitism, and holocaust denial: “The distinction we’re making is not one of saying his issues are extreme, they certainly are not.”
And you have the utter gall to claim we are being unfair if we say we don’t think the GOP is being honest, or if we think there’s clear evidence the GOP are not just a little bit racist?Report
I can’t find that Scott Walker quote online. I’d love to see it in context.
States’ rights wasn’t code, at least for a large percentage of the people who advocated it. Assigning things to code is an act of bad faith. I’m telling you, if you want to have a serious discussion about issues, you’ve got to believe what people say about their own motivations. It doesn’t take utter gall to disagree with you – especially where you’re wrong.Report
https://www.google.com/search?q=scott+walker+1992+david+duke
2 seconds of google-fu gives you plenty.Report
States’ rights wasn’t code, at least for a large percentage of the people who advocated it.
You know, I can’t figure out a polite way to say this, but I feel it needs saying anyways.
You’re delusional.
“States’ Rights” was the name of the segregationist party that nominated Strom Thurmond for president.
When Reagan said “states’ rights”, he was absolutely advocating for racist policies, like stopping the IRS from withholding tax-exempt status from private schools that still practiced racial discrimination.
The same GOP members pushing “states’ rights” have recently brought back the completely unconstitutional “nullification doctrine” and disobedience of court orders (like the court orders that desegregated Southern schools), too. If that tells you anything at all.Report
Colorado legalizing weed == States’ RightsReport
And I will argue that weed needs to be taken care of as a matter of federal law for that reason.
Colorado “legalizing” weed isn’t really legalizing it, it’s still covered under the CSA. You want to truly legalize, you need to deal with the CSA. And no court in the land is going to argue that weed isn’t presently connected to interstate commerce enough for the federal government to claim jurisdiction.
“Nullification” is not valid.Report
I’m pretty sure that we hammered out that the definition of “Interstate Commerce” used by the federal government also covers “humping”.
As such, I’m willing to say that you do not have quite as much jurisdiction as you’re claiming.Report
MA, you don’t seem to recognize that the particulars of the drug argument don’t matter; what matters is that you’re drinking from the same cup you just labelled necessarily racist.Report
Pinky, I just said that weed legalization would need to be handled at a federal level, Colorado law attempting to nullify it is invalid.
Article VI, Clause 2, and all that.
Please reread and understand that my name isn’t Jaybird…Report
This indent has cured my pangs of nostalgia for TVD.Report
So if I grow my own weed in Colorado, don’t sell it to anybody, and just smoke it myself can I challenge my subsequent arrest on the grounds that I’m not engaging in commerce, let alone interstate commerce?Report
MA – You’re right; I read that too quickly. Thanks for the link; I’d been searching for that particular quote, and I couldn’t find it. I also saw a couple of links to a youtube video that had been taken down. But I just watched the first part of the debate, and you really did take that quote badly out of context. Walker said that Duke was talking about legitimate issues, but had enumerated them earlier: welfare reform, job protection, job security. Not, as you said, racial supremacism, anti-semitism, and holocaust denial.Report
This was covered by Raich v. Ashcroft (which eventually became Gonzales v. Raich).
Since she presumably would have bought it on the black market if her friends didn’t give it to her for free (using California seeds, California dirt, California water, and California sunshine), it’s interstate commerce because her not buying it had an impact upon interstate commerce.
I am not making this up.
Which led us to ask “would engaging in sex be covered as well?” and we concluded that, yeah, technically. Since, presumably, you’d be buying it on the black market if you weren’t getting it for free, your *NOT* purchasing it is Interstate Commerce.
See also: Health Insurance.Report
I know Raich. I was wondering what M.A. would say about it.Report
Vote disemfranchisement under the “guise” of removing those with previous addresses.
Present and accounted for!
Here stands one voter whose name was deliberately dropped from the rolls (had to call and bitch to get it back on, but Had To Know to know enough to call).Report
re-ally? Where were these?Report
Lehigh County PA.Report
oh, the stories I have heard about that area! 😉
Targetting isn’t something unique to the Democrats, they’re just more successful at it. 😉 Has to do with having lots of liberal volunteers near the folks that need to be registered.
5%, baby. Ca-ching!Report
I consider myself politically aware and up-to-date on the news. I get my news from a variety of sources, most of which the likes of the gentleman from Port St. Lucie would accuse of being “in the bag for Obama.” NPR, NBC (note: it’s no longer MSNBC) and the other networks, the Gray Lady, the Fish Wrapper.
But it was not until reading this post, this morning, that I was even aware that ACORN is not only defunct, but had been so for quite some time.
So I now suspect that I flatter and delude myself when I call myself well-informed and politically aware. But more FOX News and the rest of the media of the right is obviously not the answer: so loud were the echoes from the Conservasphere’s Outrage Machine that even I, no longer a member of the Conservasphere, was distracted from reality by the anger, the repetition, the pointing and screeching. They were the source of the problem, the instruments if not the authors of the manipulation that resulted in my ignorance.
I’ve learned a valuable lesson today.Report
Is that really a nickname for the LA Times?Report
That is a common nickname for at least one paper in every city that I know of.
And no, it’s not this guy.Report
I began using that phrase in reaction to a trip to San Francisco where I read the Examiner and found it absolutely awful. There, on Market Street, I pronounced the Examiner not even fit for use in wrapping fish, and was grateful to return to Los Angeles were the flagship local newspaper was fit for at least one purpose.Report
The LA Times used to be a much better paper. I blame the buyout.Report
The old Hearst Examiner, or the current throwaway tabloid? I agree about the latter 100%, but it’s barely a newspaper at all. Anyway, the flagship has always been the Chronicle, although it’s pretty awful these days too.Report
Why did Herb Caen have to die on us?
The Chronicle is good for local entertainment and restaurant info and that is about it.
Though perhaps it is unfair to compare everything to the Times.Report
What I find is that the current “slim” Chronicle doesn’t even last me the half-hour ferry ride from Larkspur to The City (Hey, James, how’s it going?)Report
Wait, you actually commute by ferry? That’s awesome; best way to commute ever.
I like to think the dwindling of the Chron is the universe’s punishment for it’s pretentious capitalization of the city. (Especially since San Francisco is more of a large town than a city.)Report
I did when I worked in SF. Back In Oakland now, so I have to drive again (because Marin so foresightedly turned BART down back in the 60s.)Report
I think they knew it would be inconvenient and did not care. They wanted Marin to be a bit inaccessible.
I like it though. If I stay in the Bay Area and do the whole move to the suburbs thing, I think Mill Valley is a top choice.Report
You must be rich. Mill Valley is crazy-town expensive.
Larkspur too (less I think).
I am hoping Mike will loan me his Grey Poupon now.
🙂Report
I don’t live either of those places; Larkspur is the ferry terminal.Report
I suppose it would take too long to take the Ferry and catch Bart on lower Market?
(Damn, I just had a real strong visual flashback to that area, and the homeless guy who used to stand outside the hotel at the Embarcadero shouting, “You can’t get me, Reagan!” I think I even felt a shiver from the cold damp air. If I could mentally go about a block north I could smell the Cinnabon…is it still there?)Report
Yeah, it turns a 40-minute drive into well over an hour. And worse on the way back, since if you miss a ferry, it can be more than an hour till the next one.
Not sure about the Cinnabon. My landmark on Market Street was the Noah’s bagels.Report
And Art Hoppe. Damn, I loved that guy!Report
Me too. And Stanton Delaplane (long ago, we used to be friends with his daughter.)Report
Good lord, I haven’t thought about him in forever!
Those were the halcyon days of the Chron, fershure!Report
I remember going with her to a party where they were serving Irish Coffee. She said “My Dad invented that!” and everyone looked at her like she was crazy. But it was true 🙂Report
Around here, it’s slang for “condom”.Report
I had a similar experience listening to radio the other morning, where one of the local hosts was ranting on about a supposed event that “only MSNBC” was invited to at the White House.
Took me about 30 minutes to realize MSNBC is now NBCNews.
Also took me about that long to look up the event and realize that it was a single interview with a single interviewer. Which necessarily means only one network.
I swear, the more days go by the more these people get unhinged. But when you’re that used to spinning lies out of whole cloth, I suppose you eventually begin to believe your own lies.Report
But it was not until reading this post, this morning, that I was even aware that ACORN is not only defunct, but had been so for quite some time.
For news sources that are actually about news, talking/writing about ACORN is akin to the old Saturday Night Live running gag: “Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead!” An organization that disbanded some years ago simply isn’t news. On top of which, there’s only so much that you can remember — yes, you’re well-informed and politically aware, but you also have a day job.Report
It’s kind of like accusing Fox News of being, um, news.Report
The Vast Rightwing Conspiracy runs a paper around here.
though biased, they hardly seem anything compared to Fox news
It also loses money hand over fist (h/t public access to divorce papers).Report
The most rational conclusion to draw would be that the rightwing media is detached from reality.
The more this goes on, the harder a time I have a agreeing with conclusions as decent as this one. The persistent and insistent belief that it isn’t Obama that’s beating them – that it couldn’t be THAT guy, that it has to be something else (ACORN or the “liberal” media or gifts or corruption)? There’s got to be more to it than simply the rightwing media’s very casual relationship with reality.
I’ll give you an example – although I’m a goofy looking dude, I’ve played enough basketball to know how to be a competent player, and under the right conditions, I can score in bunches. I’m 32 but the local university has a Rec Center, so I play against college students, and if I get going, I’ll occasionally run into guys who refuse to respect that I’m beating them. My shots (all bank shots from 45 degrees) are lucky or bullshit or they weren’t really playing or they were drunk last night or whatever. It just can’t have been me that bettered them.
So then, what’s the breaking point for Republicans? At what point do they realize that they’re losing to a guy who is better than their candidates? At what point do they acknowledge that maybe it’s Obama and not a complex series of churning conspiracies? Or does it simply never happen?Report
“So then, what’s the breaking point for Republicans? At what point do they realize that they’re losing to a guy who is better than their candidates? At what point do they acknowledge that maybe it’s Obama and not a complex series of churning conspiracies? Or does it simply never happen?”
I think it is going to get worse before it gets better. There is also the possibility of the Republican Party going the way of the dodo and being replaced by a center-right party and a far right party.
About a quarter of the electorate will always be far-right extremists of the current mode. Right now they can assert a lot of influence in the GOP. John Judis notes that the Club for Growth is already trying to stack the deck against reasonable conservatives for questioning Orthodoxies. In a system with multiple parties, this 25 percent would only control a handful of seats and that is it.Report
Only works if they lose the mid-terms.
If those masses of low to moderate income voters don’t get out and vote in non-presidential elections, letting tea-party candidates continue to sweep up local, state, and house seats, the feedback loop won’t work properly.Report
The feedback loop is locked into the House right now, sadly. Gerrymandered districting has left the House remarkably stable; only around 10 percent of the districts in the USA could be considered competitive.
It’s not a coincidence that the GOP/TEA party went on a big push in the 2010 elections. They knew that districting was at stake and in many respects their goal was to take over as many state houses as possible in order to cement their margins via districting.
They can’t win nationally, they can’t win many Senate races, but they can stuff as many Democrats into as few districts as possible and spread the remainder out into districts that become unwinnable. And before someone pipes up and screams – yes, Democrats have on occasion done this too, which is all the more reason to make it illegal and require nonpartisan algorithms rather than relying on partisan state legislatures to do districting.
You don’t get rid of many of these people, no matter how hard you try. And it’s no coincidence that the worst-of-the-worst partisans come from the “safer” districts. They’re the districts that are decided in a primary, where appealing to the base at all costs is the priority because the primary winner knows they’ll barely have to campaign come time for the general election.
I’ll remind you that last month, I abstained from three races on the ballot. All three consisted of the Republican nominee (GOP primary winner) and Libertarian nominee (actually the GOP primary loser, who the Libertarians nominated in a transparent bid to appear somehow relevant).
That’s three races where the Democrats didn’t even bother to put up a candidate, because the district was such a lock. There are a few other races on the same ballot where the Democrat nominee probably was outspent 200 to 1, because no serious contender would even bother running in the district except to get name recognition for future elections.
Noncompetitive elections screw up the system, and they’re what has made the House so unfortunately partisan. Nobody there is worried about winning in the general any more, it’s all about fending off a primary challenge from the knuckle-draggers.Report
Despite the GOP gerrymandering, the technique backfired horribly at a national level. There are two ways to gerrymander: packing and cracking. Packing makes sure my district stays safe. Cracking dilutes your power. The GOP were too smart by half. In their attempt to Crack the safely Democratic districts, they inadvertently created situations where their supposed margins of victory weren’t safe enough.Report
It was only an 8-seat switch, Blaise. They cemented their wins quite well with gerrymandering; they lost the national presidential election handily, lost out on every competitive Senate seat they could have possibly lost (including losing Olympia Snowe’s seat to an Independent), lost the popular vote in terms of House numbers, and yet translated that popular-vote loss into a 234-201 seat majority hold on the chamber.
That’s gerrymandering at work, doing what it was designed to do: turn a losing vote into a “representative majority” illegitimately.Report
Oh it was all quite legal, so we’re told. We seem stuck with this situation for a decade. But the GOP’s domination of the House is no longer that big a deal, strategically. Unless they can put their own judges on SCOTUS, they won’t be able to push much of their Conservative Agenda stuff.
The House is a strange beast and getting stranger all the time. Look at all those dozens of motions to repeal ACA which went nowhere. SCOTUS eventually said most of the law was legal. The GOP can bluster and fret and make all sorts of meaningless gestures but unless they can get legislation passed or get it struck down in SCOTUS, it’s all so much fetid wind.
And there’s the greed angle to consider. House members like to bring home the bacon. The House is full of fine upstanding people preaching the gospel of Fiscal Responsibility, as long as they’re in Washington. But if these Republicans send us over the fiscal cliff, they will go back to their districts to face lynch mobs.Report
“which is all the more reason to make it illegal and require nonpartisan algorithms rather than relying on partisan state legislatures to do districting.”
Passed and just re-affirmed here in Cali. One thing we did right!Report
As true as this is, in usual liberal fashion I will say that this was as much the fault of liberal activists who were throwing hissy fits than anything else.
Voter turn-out from Democratic core constituencies was abyssmal in 2010, and part of it came from a lack of understanding the importance of census year elections.Report
I have to agree that the “right wing media” is detached. Of course, so is the “left wing media”. They are both echo chambers, and the false premise that reporters are not biased but are “professionals” still gives me chuckles. Right.
Given that, I still support sided media. I’d rather have Fox News known for being a sided media establishment rather than trying to hide it like some of the “mainstream” media outlets do. You know what you getting there. Not so much other places, so the “BS” meter has to be working harder.Report
Moral equivalence between “biased by their education, upbringing, and sympathies, often unconsciously” and “dedicated propaganda machine” is unpersuasive to me.Report
End result is the same assuming your assumption is valid, which I’m in no way agreeing with.Report
No. One results in news that might be questionable in some aspects, and one results in broadcasting Karl Rove performing mathturbation.Report
Karl Rove performing mathturbation is no different that some of the stuff I’ve seen on the other side on the “The McLaughlin Group”.Report
Say what you will about the Fox News ethos….Report
But, Fox doesn’t cop to being media that takes a side. They proudly call themselves “Fair and Balanced” after all. I don’t see how the fact that their bias is too obvious to hide makes their model less BS than what you are calling mainstream media outlets.
Honestly, your position toward Fox News is more baffling to me than that of those in their audience who are ignorant of the network’s bias. I mean it’s one thing to get taken by a shyster when you are unaware that you’re being sold a bill of goods, it’s quite another to know what you’re getting is snake-oil and buying it anyway.Report
“Its easier to fool a man than to convince him he is being fooled.”Report
I consider “Fair and Balanced” to be the equiv of “All the news that’s fit to print” or some other tagline. It’s clear that they are sided. This whole F&B thing is schtick, in my opinion. I’m sure it fools some folks, but those that are that easily fooled deserve it.
I really don’t see why position is baffling. Foxed is biased, we both know that, whether they admit to it or not. If I watch them, and I do very infrequently, I already know the angle the stories will come from. That’s not the case for other media.Report
Why do you think unbiased media is impossible?Report
Because people cannot escape their preconceptions, their background, their upbringing and associated notions. It’s too much a part of who they are. I’m fine with that. Just don’t lie to me or deceive yourself that you’re unbiased. Everyone has biases.Report
To feed in the right wing media echo chamber bullet point, here is Ann Coulter on Sean Hannity, trying to explain to Sean how temporarily raising taxes on the top 2% until the GOP wins back the Senate and Presidency in 2/4 years (LOLz) is the smart political thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP83AL0MWfcReport
The weird thing is that she sounded sane next to Sean Hannity. Hannity is beyond unhinged.Report