There have been a few things about the protest movement that confuses me and nobody seems to have an answer.
1. If MAGA were to say that they were not anti-Semitic because there are MAGA Jews than a lot of people on the liberal-left side would laugh at them. Yet, they want Jews to believe that the Pro-Palestinian movements are not anti-Semitic because there are some Jews in them.
2. The Pro-Palestinians in the West would have us believe that the Palestinians want a secular and multicultural Palestine. We have decades of statements from real actual Palestinian leaders about what they want plus how other Muslim majority countries are set up and that won't be friendly towards the Jews. Why should we believe people who aren't in control on what they say the Palestinians want and not the actual Palestinians?
Everybody used to be a lot more forgiving about youthful indiscretions. These days not so much. It is a much more punishing system. It is also unclear whether a night in the tank is the worse they can expect these days.
Part of it is what Jaybird says and part of it is a privilege so exceedingly high that they can't even comprehend good faith disagreement let alone punishment.
The Trusk administration is sending letters to foreign cities and governments and demanding them to stop DEI initiatives. This is taking the American Empire thing way too literally.
No, I think it would be a civil war like in Ireland in the 1920s between the people who accepted the Irish Free State and those that did not. You analysis is also spot on. Lots of people including Palestinian leadership, other Muslims, and their Western allies have been telling the Palestinians for decades that only total victory would do for them. Israelis have also been getting a total victory message but also other messages. Nobody brings this stuff up when talking about a final deal.
I'd also like them to answer why the dozens of self-proclaimed Muslim states, where they can't even treat the wrong type of Muslim well let alone non-Muslims are not apartheid states but Israel it is. It's similar to how apparently Israel is the only ethno-state in the world while the self-proclaimed Arab states are not or other states with ethnic favoring laws stronger than Israel's are not. Jews and the Jewish State are held to the standard of absolute perfection while the the other countries get graded on a sliding scale.
It would be nice if Pro-Palestinian forces can come out and actually describe what they mean by Zionist occupation in geographic terms rather than just rallying at the Occupation. I suspect that the keep talking about the Occupation vaguely because they don't want to show a division in the Pro-Palestinian movement between those that realize that they can't destroy Israel and the best the Palestinians are going to get is the WB and Gaza and the people who believe that "No Israel" or "No Israel/No Jews" is the only just solution.
It's somewhat odd that the Pro-Palestinian movement feels the need to keep a united face while the Pro-Israel movement openly argues between the Two States and the Israel gets WB/Gaza factions. I don't think this unity helps Palestinians but the movement feels the need to keep it up.
One of my theories on why Arafat and Abbas could not come to final agreement with Israel under Barak and Olmert respectively is that neither of them wanted to start a Palestinian Civil War. A final deal with Israel would always meet with hollowing denial from the more militant factions because there was no Right of Return and Israel remained in tact. The Pro-Palestine faction in the West resembles this in that the more militant are in control and the one that might be more accommodating to reality keep silent out of fear for their lives and not wanting to divide the movement.
Remove all the civilians where? Netanyahu's government might be able to do this if the civilians were removed to Green Line Israel. The current Israeli government did not do this during the earlier phases of the Israel-Hamas War. Egypt isn't going to take them in.
Israel can ethnically cleanse Gaza but Israel should absolutely not ethnically cleanse Gaza. That would be extremely immoral and evil. It would be useless. Hamas is holding on by the skin of it's teeth and is going to lose power in Gaza sooner than latter. Nobody wants them there besides a few activists in the West and themselves.
What Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir are doing now is wrong and excessive. I was a big supporter of Israel during the Israel-Hamas War but further brutal action despite some hostages is not going to do anything but make Israel look bad. It will be immoral as well.
Israel has it's own defense/weapons industry. Stoping to sell weapons to Israel won't actually change the power levels. There are too many people indulging both the Israelis and Palestinians on in stupid fantasies but Israel has a lot more power to carry on those stupid fantasies.
Chris, how on earth does this level of ideological dogmatism help the Palestinians? Israel exists. It is not going to stop existing. Something like 45% of the world's Jews live in Israel and they aren't going anywhere.
The Pro-Palestinian forces can scream ethnic cleansing, while ignoring the ethnic cleansing of Jews in Europe and the MENA region, and settler-colonialism as much as they want. It won't do anything to help the Palestinians. Nobody is going to swoop down and force the solution you want on Israel.
The Pro-Israel and the Pro-Palestine side are being extremely stupid and ignoring facts on the ground.
1. There are 10.1 million Israelis. Around 77% of them are Jews. It is a wealthy developed democracy with a government, army, and citizenry willing to fight for their country. They also have the bomb.
2. There are 5 to 6 million Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.
3. Nobody is going anywhere.
4. The Palestinians can't militarily defeat Israel and nobody is going to swoop down and save them.
5. Israel can't bomb it's way out of this.
6. This means that the I/P conflict will end by unilateral Israel withdrawal or negotiation.
7. The negotiations means settlers out of the WB and No Right of Return for Palestinians.
8. Not recoginizing this and rigidly adhering to ideology means the conflict continues forever.
So your opinion is that societal improvement is impossible and nothing can or should be done to make humans better? Taboos about what can't be said have tremendous power.
See also this. Iranian high school principal tries to lead students in saying Death to Israel and they respond by Death to Palestine. Other Muslims are not that into the Palestinian cause anymore. So any strategy based on a collapse of Western support and assuming that no where else supports Israel is just dumb strategically.
Even if there is a collapse in support for Israel, doesn't mean that the world would be willing to swoop in either. They aren't doing this for the Uyghurs in China or Rohingya in Myanmar. It still seems like a lot of magical thinking.
It also assumes that Israel won't be able to find support elsewhere. Israel and India have been getting a lot closer. Hindus and the Israeli or even Jewish Right are finding things to bond over.
So basically I think even if that is the goal, it still shows bad strategic thinking. The Palestinians won't be stronger. The world isn't going to rush in. Israel can find allies elsewhere.
There were also Israeli governments in willing memory that were willing to negotiate a final deal with the PLO. The PLO rejected these deals. Sharon withdrew from Gaza and Hamas decided to turn it into a quixotic attempt to destroy Israel. Although to be fair to the Palestinian leadership, I also think they didn't want to start a Palestinian Civil War by signing such a treaty.
The Palestinians and their allies seem to have a real need for a psychological victory against Israel. They want Israel to be punished in some way rather than a negotiated deal.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.
On “Open Mic for the Week of 5/5/2025”
There have been a few things about the protest movement that confuses me and nobody seems to have an answer.
1. If MAGA were to say that they were not anti-Semitic because there are MAGA Jews than a lot of people on the liberal-left side would laugh at them. Yet, they want Jews to believe that the Pro-Palestinian movements are not anti-Semitic because there are some Jews in them.
2. The Pro-Palestinians in the West would have us believe that the Palestinians want a secular and multicultural Palestine. We have decades of statements from real actual Palestinian leaders about what they want plus how other Muslim majority countries are set up and that won't be friendly towards the Jews. Why should we believe people who aren't in control on what they say the Palestinians want and not the actual Palestinians?
"
Everybody used to be a lot more forgiving about youthful indiscretions. These days not so much. It is a much more punishing system. It is also unclear whether a night in the tank is the worse they can expect these days.
"
Part of it is what Jaybird says and part of it is a privilege so exceedingly high that they can't even comprehend good faith disagreement let alone punishment.
"
The Trusk administration is sending letters to foreign cities and governments and demanding them to stop DEI initiatives. This is taking the American Empire thing way too literally.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/08/stockholm-rejects-us-letter-urging-city-to-reverse-diversity-initiatives
"
This is clever. It couldn't happen to a bunch of nicer people.
"
No, I think it would be a civil war like in Ireland in the 1920s between the people who accepted the Irish Free State and those that did not. You analysis is also spot on. Lots of people including Palestinian leadership, other Muslims, and their Western allies have been telling the Palestinians for decades that only total victory would do for them. Israelis have also been getting a total victory message but also other messages. Nobody brings this stuff up when talking about a final deal.
"
I'd also like them to answer why the dozens of self-proclaimed Muslim states, where they can't even treat the wrong type of Muslim well let alone non-Muslims are not apartheid states but Israel it is. It's similar to how apparently Israel is the only ethno-state in the world while the self-proclaimed Arab states are not or other states with ethnic favoring laws stronger than Israel's are not. Jews and the Jewish State are held to the standard of absolute perfection while the the other countries get graded on a sliding scale.
"
It would be nice if Pro-Palestinian forces can come out and actually describe what they mean by Zionist occupation in geographic terms rather than just rallying at the Occupation. I suspect that the keep talking about the Occupation vaguely because they don't want to show a division in the Pro-Palestinian movement between those that realize that they can't destroy Israel and the best the Palestinians are going to get is the WB and Gaza and the people who believe that "No Israel" or "No Israel/No Jews" is the only just solution.
It's somewhat odd that the Pro-Palestinian movement feels the need to keep a united face while the Pro-Israel movement openly argues between the Two States and the Israel gets WB/Gaza factions. I don't think this unity helps Palestinians but the movement feels the need to keep it up.
One of my theories on why Arafat and Abbas could not come to final agreement with Israel under Barak and Olmert respectively is that neither of them wanted to start a Palestinian Civil War. A final deal with Israel would always meet with hollowing denial from the more militant factions because there was no Right of Return and Israel remained in tact. The Pro-Palestine faction in the West resembles this in that the more militant are in control and the one that might be more accommodating to reality keep silent out of fear for their lives and not wanting to divide the movement.
"
Journalist harassed by the dirtbag left for covering a May Day protest in Manhattan.
"
I think this is a bad idea that will hurt Israel more than it helps Israel in the short and long run.
"
Remove all the civilians where? Netanyahu's government might be able to do this if the civilians were removed to Green Line Israel. The current Israeli government did not do this during the earlier phases of the Israel-Hamas War. Egypt isn't going to take them in.
"
Israel can ethnically cleanse Gaza but Israel should absolutely not ethnically cleanse Gaza. That would be extremely immoral and evil. It would be useless. Hamas is holding on by the skin of it's teeth and is going to lose power in Gaza sooner than latter. Nobody wants them there besides a few activists in the West and themselves.
What Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir are doing now is wrong and excessive. I was a big supporter of Israel during the Israel-Hamas War but further brutal action despite some hostages is not going to do anything but make Israel look bad. It will be immoral as well.
"
Israel has it's own defense/weapons industry. Stoping to sell weapons to Israel won't actually change the power levels. There are too many people indulging both the Israelis and Palestinians on in stupid fantasies but Israel has a lot more power to carry on those stupid fantasies.
"
More from the email security administration:
https://www.404media.co/the-signal-clone-the-trump-admin-uses-was-hacked/
"
Swoop down and enforce the preferred solution of Pro-Palestinian forces on Israel.
"
Chris, how on earth does this level of ideological dogmatism help the Palestinians? Israel exists. It is not going to stop existing. Something like 45% of the world's Jews live in Israel and they aren't going anywhere.
The Pro-Palestinian forces can scream ethnic cleansing, while ignoring the ethnic cleansing of Jews in Europe and the MENA region, and settler-colonialism as much as they want. It won't do anything to help the Palestinians. Nobody is going to swoop down and force the solution you want on Israel.
"
The email security administration:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d49bd4585dd7f1f908b685c0c7a63aa470e09d15defda21f1a31eb5bde100c8a.png
"
Who knew that Trump was trying to teach Americans Buddhist dharma?
"
The Pro-Israel and the Pro-Palestine side are being extremely stupid and ignoring facts on the ground.
1. There are 10.1 million Israelis. Around 77% of them are Jews. It is a wealthy developed democracy with a government, army, and citizenry willing to fight for their country. They also have the bomb.
2. There are 5 to 6 million Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.
3. Nobody is going anywhere.
4. The Palestinians can't militarily defeat Israel and nobody is going to swoop down and save them.
5. Israel can't bomb it's way out of this.
6. This means that the I/P conflict will end by unilateral Israel withdrawal or negotiation.
7. The negotiations means settlers out of the WB and No Right of Return for Palestinians.
8. Not recoginizing this and rigidly adhering to ideology means the conflict continues forever.
"
So your opinion is that societal improvement is impossible and nothing can or should be done to make humans better? Taboos about what can't be said have tremendous power.
"
Actually, most people are just scared about this escalating out of control.
"
India attacks Pakistan over the militant strike in India Kashmir:
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/multiple-loud-explosions-heard-pakistani-kashmir-reuters-witness-2025-05-06/
"
See also this. Iranian high school principal tries to lead students in saying Death to Israel and they respond by Death to Palestine. Other Muslims are not that into the Palestinian cause anymore. So any strategy based on a collapse of Western support and assuming that no where else supports Israel is just dumb strategically.
https://jihadwatch.org/2024/12/iran-students-shout-death-to-palestine-to-show-their-opposition-to-the-islamic-regime
"
Even if there is a collapse in support for Israel, doesn't mean that the world would be willing to swoop in either. They aren't doing this for the Uyghurs in China or Rohingya in Myanmar. It still seems like a lot of magical thinking.
It also assumes that Israel won't be able to find support elsewhere. Israel and India have been getting a lot closer. Hindus and the Israeli or even Jewish Right are finding things to bond over.
So basically I think even if that is the goal, it still shows bad strategic thinking. The Palestinians won't be stronger. The world isn't going to rush in. Israel can find allies elsewhere.
"
There were also Israeli governments in willing memory that were willing to negotiate a final deal with the PLO. The PLO rejected these deals. Sharon withdrew from Gaza and Hamas decided to turn it into a quixotic attempt to destroy Israel. Although to be fair to the Palestinian leadership, I also think they didn't want to start a Palestinian Civil War by signing such a treaty.
The Palestinians and their allies seem to have a real need for a psychological victory against Israel. They want Israel to be punished in some way rather than a negotiated deal.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.