Hate is Hate: The Toxic Brew of Race, Sex Workers, and Hysteria in Atlanta Shootings

Michael Siegel

Michael Siegel is an astronomer living in Pennsylvania. He blogs at his own site, and has written a novel.

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16 Responses

  1. Philip H says:

    Now does this mean racism played no role in these killings? Of course not. There has been a long cultural fetishization of Asian women, specifically in the context of sex work. Even if you remove the misogyny and sex worker hatred, there’s still plenty of evil left over to attribute to racism. This man didn’t just kill people he thought were sex workers (whether they were or not). He focused particularly on Asian ones. And this is not entirely unexpected. If you can stomach the misogyny of incels and pick-up artists and their ilk, you will quickly find racism lurking just below the sexism. These are often part of the same vile mentality; one that sees women as objects and non-white women almost as animals.

    This is the best analysis of this attack I have read. That paragraph is it, in order and in a nut shell.

    That said, we have along history of disbelieving people who commit atrocities. Your list should have included Tim McVeigh and Osama Bin Laden – They straight up told us why they did what they did, and no one seems to believe them. Such disbelief extends beyond mass murdering terrorists (which Mc Veigh very much is) however – just look at the Bundy family and their grazing disputes turned wildlife area take over turned mask protests.Report

    • LeeEsq in reply to Philip H says:

      A big part of the disbelief is that people often can’t really deal with the fact that people can really believe some off kilter things. If you are a relatively normal person of sound mind than the Turner Diaries are just crazy. You don’t even have to be especially liberal or woke to find their arguments wild beyond belief. Same with Bin Laden said. It has to be about imperialism, it can’t be because the Arabian peninsula and by extension the rest of MENA is for Muslims alone.Report

      • Philip H in reply to LeeEsq says:

        Such unable to comprehend people clearly didn’t grow up as white men in the modern south. If they had, they’d know how easy and probable that is.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to Philip H says:

      That said, we have along history of disbelieving people who commit atrocities. Your list should have included Tim McVeigh and Osama Bin Laden – They straight up told us why they did what they did, and no one seems to believe them

      Well, the problem that comes from believing them is that you then are stuck with the question of “well, should we have different policies?”

      It’s fair to conclude that we shouldn’t. Hell, it’s fair to conclude that we should. But we pretty much shouldn’t change our policies because some person who has strong opinions about our policies is willing to murder hundreds or thousands of people. Whether or not we should have different policies has nothing to do with this guy who had strong opinions.

      I mean, did Tim McVeigh change any of your opinions on the limits of the Federal Government?

      Did Osama change any of your opinions on how America ought to be treating Israel or Palestine?

      And, on top of that, if either one of them had the goal of “raising awareness”, it pretty much backfired.

      The murderer’s opinions of what he did are interesting only insofar as they are an indicator of, perhaps, there being similar minds out there. And those similar minds need to change and the minds that might become similar minds need to be pointed in a different direction entirely.

      And then his opinions cease to be interesting.Report

      • Dark Matter in reply to Jaybird says:

        I mean, did Tim McVeigh change any of your opinions on the limits of the Federal Government?

        My opinions? No.
        I already thought the gov’s actions at Ruby Ridge and with the Branch Davidians was heavy handed, incompetent, probably criminal (especially at RR), and they got people needlessly killed.

        Now whether McVeigh’s actions got any reform to prevent that sort of thing is a different question.

        RE: Osama

        He was all over the place on his stated “reasons” and they hit the radar as propaganda. Sorry, the speaker can’t be trusted to the point where there’s no point in listening to him.

        The same held true for Ted Bundy. He gave multiple different and conflicting reasons on why he did what he did. We were never able to get past his entire “use/manipulate whoever he’s talking to” thing. The anti-[whatever] activist gets told it was [whatever].Report

  2. CJColucci says:

    On the basis of what little we know so far, my guess is that this guy is comprehensively f****d up and a bubbling stew of multiple, mutually-reinforcing pathologies. But that’s all it is — my guess. And I’m not deeply invested in it. I’m content to await further information before sounding off.Report

  3. veronica d says:

    Thank you for writing this.Report

  4. Saul Degraw says:

    FWIW in my general observations from cities across the United States, advertising the ethnicity of the workers is almost always an indication that you can negotiate for a “happy ending” aka a hand job. Sometimes more. Before it all went online, almost every alternative weekly paper in the United States supported itself on ads from sex workers and drug dealers. Often the ads would could feature Asian women in skimpy underwear. I don’t know if any of the massage parlors that were attacked did this but it does not take a genius to figure out what those ads were selling and it wasn’t lumbar spine relief.

    But that is irrelevant because even if the women were sex workers, they should not be murdered. The fundiegelicals do not seem to want to give up the ghost on sex being bad though. It is something they desperately cling to.Report

  5. LeeEsq says:

    We need to legalize sex work in this country. Trying to create a policy based on some really dumb ideals, that takes both right-leaning puritarnical forms and a really misguided attempt to protect women from allegedly creepy men from more liberal people. Whatever the reason, banning sex work nearly always causes more problems than it solves.Report

  6. Damon says:

    Damon’s rule of the press: 90% of the time initial reports are majorly wrong in facts. Any “analysis” that comes in the first week or two will be wrong. The facts here bear that out.

    Religion’s got some good points, but the sex stuff is one major failing. One of these days they should try and fix that, but I’m not sure how you wedge something that began at the down of “civilization” with our modern world.Report

  7. Jaybird says:

    There’s a phrasing that I’ve been seeing in a couple of places that is sticking with me.

    It goes something like this: “We are simultaneously Under(X)ed and Over(X)ed.”

    The story of last year makes a lot more sense if you see that America is simultaneously underpoliced and overpoliced.

    This particular shooting touches on America’s weird pathologies with sex. We are simultaneously undersexed and oversexed.

    I don’t know how we (as a society) need to approach everything from guns to sex to sex work… but we’re simultaneously surrounded and insatiable.

    Water, water, every where, / Nor any drop to drink.Report

    • j r in reply to Jaybird says:

      I think this is right. One form of the construction that strikes me as especially useful is the idea that many of us are simultaneously undernourished and overfed. It gets at the heart of the problem, which is that humans spent tens of thousands of years learning to live with scarcity and suddenly within the span of a few generations we find ourselves living in relative material abundance. More so, many of the things that we developed to cope with scarcity have either diminished in value or become liabilities; things like small exclusive communities that protect us and give us status, honor and purity codes that reward and punish based on reputation, zero-sum thinking that see others people’s abundance as a threat.

      What you end up with is groups of people who claim to be seeking some specific thing like sex or enough money to live or a good job, but who really feel aggrieved by a lack of perceived respect. These are people who believe that they are owed something merely based on their demographic characteristics. What these people really want is compliance. They want other people to play roles in their self-centered fantasies about what they are owed. And when they don’t get that, some of them lash out in predictable and unpredictable ways.

      The paradox of being an incel at a time of increased sexual access links up directly with the paradox of thinking that charging money for something also cheapens that thing. As the OP points out, that is where the moral scolds of the left and right meet up and exchange socials.Report

  8. Brandon Berg says:

    As insidious as racism is, the recent spike in anti-Asian hate crimes has the numbers still in low triple digits.

    Note that the document you linked gives an estimate for the ten largest cities, not for the whole country. Another organization whose name I’ve forgotten has counted over 3,000 bias incidents, but the vast majority are either purely verbal or “avoidance/shunning,” which isn’t clearly defined, so it’s not a measure of hate crimes as such.

    My swag would be that the total number for the past year would be in the mid three figures.

    Notably, there do not seem to have been any homicides that have been clearly motivated by anti-Asian animus. As far as I can tell, the only homicides which the media has tried to characterize as such are this one (if you really stretch, you can argue that race is kind of relevant here, but that’s speculative and it’s clearly not the main factor) and the elderly Thai man who was killed in San Francisco.

    The latter is more ambiguous. I’ve seen the video, which shows a young black man running up, pushing the victim, and running away. A horrible thing to do, to be sure, but it’s a thing that’s been happening for some time, and not just to Asians. Rick Moranis got sucker-punched under similar circumstances last October, and there was a similar attack on a Russian woman in Seattle last summer.

    So it’s not clear whether this was racially targeted or just a random act of violence. If it was racially targeted, not-black is just as plausible a criterion as Asian. Keep in mind that San Francisco is 35% Asian, so a random act of violence is nearly as likely to hit an Asian as a white person.

    It also doesn’t look like he intended to kill the victim; with the caveat that I’m not a lawyer, I’m skeptical that they’ll get more than a manslaughter charge to stick.

    So while there does seem to have been a real uptick in stupid, crappy people being jerks to Asians, the risk to Asian Americans of violent crime victimization appears to remain very low. Asian Americans have by far the lowest rate of homicide victimization, merely half that of non-Hispanic whites. Even if we assume that these seven homicides wouldn’t have happened in a normal year, it would only increase their homicide victimization rate by about 0.03 per 100,000.

    I am predicting no statistically significant reduction in the white-Asian homicide victimization gap for 2020 or 2021. If anyone wants to bet otherwise, I’m up for it.

    I have some Asian American friends on Facebook who are totally freaking out thinking that they’re facing some kind of major existential risk, and I am, as usual, disgusted by the wildly irresponsible fearmongering the media is doing.Report