History Was Made in 2024 Election, Now What?

Luis A. Mendez

Boricua. Floridian. Theist. Writer. Podcaster. Film Critic. Oscars Predictor. Occasional Psephologist. Member Of The Critics Association Of Central Florida, The International Film Society Critics, And The Puerto Rico Critics Association.

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128 Responses

  1. Jaybird
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    says:

    To be perfectly honest, I think that the Democrats need to ask themselves “where did we screw up?” and actually come up with an answer this time that isn’t “we cared about people too much”.Report

    • Dark Matter in reply to Jaybird
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      says:

      Being both Black and Female didn’t compensate for also being an empty suit who was terrible at running for election.

      I found all of the happy talk on how super qualified she was pretty jarring. It sounded similar to how Biden was super competent and not affected by age.Report

    • JoeSal in reply to Jaybird
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      says:

      That would require a reflection in the mirror. We have talked about self reflection before at OT, and it is a waste of time. All they will see is the cardboard cut out of what they see as THE GOOD.
      It’s just not worth the time to continue to point that out and continue to get degraded for it.Report

    • John Puccio in reply to Jaybird
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      says:

      I’m watching MSNBC and they are predictably saying Kamala would have performed better if she was a 6 ft tall white man. So, no, don’t hold your breath for meaningful self reflection about how Dem policies, track record and candidate were wildly unpopular. Better to blame democracy itself. Apparently 1 in 4 black men in this country are now white supremacists.Report

      • InMD in reply to John Puccio
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        says:

        I saw a softer version of that when I popped on CNN for a few minutes. I imagine we are still a couple weeks away from the full post mortem, but it’s clear to me that’s pure cope.

        And thats coming from me, someone who was hoping Harris would pull it out. It baffles me how many people can’t see the flaws in that angle.Report

        • John Puccio in reply to InMD
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          says:

          It’s never the one thing, especially in this instance. The reasons for the ass-whoppin are legion. But my guess is that the post-mortem will fixate on the Biden / Harris swap out and neglect the root causes for the landslide. In a lot of ways, the Dems shot their shot by knifing Biden in the back and gave themselves a better chance trying to thread the “joy” needle with Harris. It was the right move. Biden is a vegetable. But it’s not why they took such a huge loss.Report

      • Dark Matter in reply to John Puccio
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        says:

        A white man with her (lack of) talents and (lack of) history would never have been given this opportunity.

        There would have been dozens of obviously more qualified people in that talent pool (various former or current governors).Report

    • DensityDuck in reply to Jaybird
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      says:

      They screwed up back in 2008 by promising Hillary Clinton that if she didn’t make a stink about Barack Obama winning the primary then they’d support her in 2016. That’s why we didn’t get Sanders back then, and because of the dolchstosselegende we didn’t get to have him in 2020 either, even though he was the right guy for both moments.Report

      • DensityDuck in reply to DensityDuck
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        says:

        Or, maybe less flip: They screwed up by looking at the demographic shift from 2016 Trump to 2020 Trump (as in, “all demographics except White College-Educated Males went more for Trump in 2020”) and saying “oh, that’s just a fluke” and not “uh-oh”.Report

        • DensityDuck in reply to DensityDuck
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          says:

          https://x.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1854168624119877887

          Staggering class realignment/shift in working class

          Harris lost DESPITE major shift of affluent voters her way

          2020: Trump wins voters over $100K, 54-42*
          2024: *Harris* wins voters over $100K, 54-45

          2020: Biden wins voters $50K-$100K, 57-42
          2024: *Trump* w/ voters $50K-$100K, 49-47

          2020: Biden wins voters under $50K, 55-45
          2024: Trump massive improvement w/ voters under $50K, 49-48

          (*) the original tweet had an error in this figure which was corrected by a later tweet; the corrected figure is presented here.)Report

          • DensityDuck in reply to DensityDuck
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            says:

            Kontextmaschine wrote about how Obama’s election was when he had expected Americans would decide that Blacks were White (like with Kennedy’s election, where the Catholic Ethnics – Poles, Irish, Italians – became White) and a lot of people, including him, had been surprised when that didn’t really happen.

            But maybe that’s this election, the one where Blacks become White and we can finally admit that “uneducated poor people who run on emotion will vote by vibes and do dumb things if you don’t manage them properly” isn’t something that becomes Racist And Inherently Wrong if you say it about black people.Report

            • InMD in reply to DensityDuck
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              says:

              I still think it’s early for all of this but I think you’ve got two factors. Factor one is that our demographics are very different than they were in the immediate post civil rights settlement and even pretty different than they were 20-30 years ago. That’s just an objective fact but our political parties and establishment haven’t really pivoted to it.

              Second there’s reason to suspect that we are slowly depolarizing around race. Big picture that’s a good thing, but it does mean that old play books around race are going to be less effective. I mean, the big fact that never seems to enter all of this calculation is that something like 70% of hispanics are (or at least identify as) white, and the fact that someone’s crusty old grandpa may not see them that way isn’t of very limited relevance to their opinions and voting behavior.Report

  2. Derek S
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    says:

    Thank God the right person won. I am shocked at how strong a win it looks to be too. I fully believed he would not win the popular vote, but is looks like he will.

    Wow!

    I am glad this repudiates the unprecedented levels of attacks President Trump has endured:
    – Multiple lawfare cases
    – Multiple times by ranking Democrats called him fascist, threat to democracy, Hitler, and other inflammatory statements exciting violence against him
    – 2 assassination attempts

    Yet the blame falls on self inflicted wounds by you guys. The two biggest being:
    1) Not article 25ing Biden a couple of years ago when you knew he was incapable. But being in power meant more than doing the right thing. I found watching the elderly abuse on live TV depressing. If you had done the right thing, Harris or another candidate would have had much more of a chance. And you would have let and elder statesman have his twilight years relaxing and enjoying the incredible 40+ years of service, instead of doping him up on drugs, dragging him on to a dolly and wheeling him out.
    2) It is the economy (inflation), stupid. This above all killed Harris. Because it hits the lowest incomes the most. This happened in two parts:
    – It is all well and good to want a move to green and electric vehicles, but forcing gas prices out of the range of the lowest income and not caring about it in the least breeds resentment and they start to realize you do not give a crap about them over your agenda.
    – 20% inflation on commodities that the lowest income buy of feed their families. If they have to choose between feeding their families and voting for Trump, vs not feeding their families and voting for Harris… You saw who they voted for. Yes, yes, Trump is not going to magically bring prices back to 2019. We all know the damage is done and the US is terrified (rightly so) of deflation. Yet Trump oversaw the surge in wages and they can hope he does the same again. Ironically this is one area that Covid helped, so I cannot say Trump really did this, but belief is belief.

    Still, I thought the abortion issue was going to hurt the Republicans much more than it looks to have. That hit against Republicans seems to have fallen off from the 2022 election. When that decision can down I thought it was morally right, but politically stupid and that it would rewrite the Republican surge all the way through 2024.

    Glad I was wrong about the 2024 part.

    Now for one prediction:
    – Suddenly a cop killing someone of color will being back in the 24/7 news cycle and riots will ensue. Because none of that happened under Biden’s people’s watch, honest.Report

    • DensityDuck in reply to Derek S
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      says:

      Nah; none of that has anything to do with it. People vote for vibes these days, and they want the vibe Trump’s got. Anyone who’s betting on him having a particular policy beyond What Pisses Off The Guys I Hate Right Now is kidding themselves, but there’s plenty of people who love that as a policy plan, so they voted for him.Report

      • Dark Matter in reply to DensityDuck
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        says:

        People liked the Trump economy more than the Biden economy and don’t really care about “policy”.Report

        • DensityDuck in reply to Dark Matter
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          says:

          Bullshit. If it had been Vance on the ticket instead of Trump then they might have tried to run on “economics” but that wouldn’t’ve been enough to put him over (because they’d have actually asked “so what are you gonna do about it” and he wouldn’t have had an answer.)

          They want Mean America, and Trump promises them that. If you think something else significant is going on, then that’s a lie you’re telling yourself because you don’t want to imagine that the people standing next to you are Mean.Report

          • Dark Matter in reply to DensityDuck
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            says:

            and he wouldn’t have had an answer.

            Not engaging in “stimulus” spending when the economy is overheating is an answer. You’ll notice the GOP mostly voted against that.

            They want Mean America

            You telling the deplorables that they’re racist scum for not voting Team Blue has been shown to not work.

            Blue is going to try to rip apart whatever Team Red players tries to be President, so whoever they put up needs to be able to deal with that. Romney’s superior ethics and such didn’t shield him. Trump’s vileness does.Report

            • DensityDuck in reply to Dark Matter
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              says:

              “we’re gonna stop giving you free money” has historically not been an S-tier electoral performer

              “You telling the deplorables that they’re racist scum for not voting Team Blue has been shown to not work.”

              what’s bit the Democrats on the ass here is that it’s not just white men who want Mean America now and they really don’t have a playbook for that after sixteen years of Racism As Original SinReport

        • CJColucci in reply to Dark Matter
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          says:

          Trump was handed a healthy economy and, after a while, things went bad — not entirely his fault, but on his watch and, to some extent, because of what he did. Biden was handed a very unhealthy economy, and faced the same problems faced by most of the rest of the world. We hacked our way out of it, better than other countries did, and eventually broke the back of inflation without pitching ourselves into a recession. Now Trump will be handed, again, a healthy economy, which, I predict, he’ll f**k up. And his fans won’t care.
          What people “like” is a false memory. Gas prices are down to Trump-era levels (I paid $2.99 a gallon this past week), egg prices are back close to normal after avian flu (I paid $2.99 a dozen last week), and things are humming. But “vibes” beat reality in the short run.Report

          • Dark Matter in reply to CJColucci
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            says:

            What you just said doesn’t disagree with what I said. You’re just claiming that the economy is better than believed. BTW, I agree.

            What is comes down to is Trump made his case and Biden+Harris did not.

            IMHO both of them being weak candidates did the heavy lifting here. A better communicator would have been able to tell the people the economy is doing well.Report

            • CJColucci in reply to Dark Matter
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              says:

              I’m glad to see that we don’t disagree.

              And while I agree that there was little effort to communicate the truth about the economy and there should have been more, I can’t say I share your confidence that better communicators would have succeeded in getting people to believe it.Report

          • Derek S in reply to CJColucci
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            says:

            You see this is what I am talking about. People get to say wild stuff like this and no one asks for a link. Of course two of the main claims are easy to disprove.

            Yr – Avg gas price
            2019 – 2.60
            2021 – 3.18
            2022 – 3.315
            2023 – 3.58
            2024 – 3.10 (finally a reduction)

            And I blame Biden’s people for it. During Covid, oil refineries shut down sections of their plants due to the lack of demand. When the world came out of Covid and the demand of gas surged to pre-Covid levels plus. Guess how many request to reopen the shut down part of the refineries were approved by Biden’s people… none.

            Second, the price of eggs. Same exercise.
            2019 – 1.40
            2021 – 1.67
            2022 – 2.86
            2023 – 2.80
            2024 – 3.82

            I will take facts over vibes or your assertions.Report

      • Derek S in reply to DensityDuck
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        says:

        Honestly, I hope you continue to think this way. It will help continue to drag down the Democratic party.

        But I get it, your pissed off at what happened and you are not ready to view it logically.

        I would have been there if this went the other way.Report

        • Philip H in reply to Derek S
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          says:

          You must be new here – Density is no one’s idea of a Democratic Party rah rah guy.Report

        • DensityDuck in reply to Derek S
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          says:

          ” I thought the abortion issue was going to hurt the Republicans much more than it looks to have. ”

          It didn’t hurt Republicans because most of them think all those stories are vastly exaggerated (or made up entirely) and the rest think that it’s not society’s problem to address the complications that resulted from a risky medical intervention; complications that, while tragic, were also entirely voluntary.

          Which, like I said, Mean America (or at least callous America). Also Know-Nothing, because a lot of people honestly can’t imagine that it goes any way but Have Sex = Get Baby.

          This is, of course, discounting the people who think that any life is God’s Precious Miracle and that the worst sin imaginable is ending one.Report

          • DensityDuck in reply to DensityDuck
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            says:

            “20% inflation on commodities that the lowest income buy of feed their families [sic].”

            saying that people voted for Trump because Borger Too Spensive is not really doing a lot to counter my argument that this was about Mean America.Report

  3. Dark Matter
    Ignored
    says:

    RE: “Now What?”

    Now we all take a deep breath and hope really hard that most of the anti-Trump hysteria is exactly that.

    We drop the various legal cases again him. Yes, he got away with it. So did OJ, move along.

    Trump should be given a chance to govern in a normal way, he won the election.
    If he decides to test the guiderails again we need to make them hold.

    We will see a lot of chaos in the next 4 years, the chaos itself isn’t a threat to the republic.Report

  4. DavidTC
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    says:

    So here’s the thing: Kamala Harris did not make mistakes while campaigning.

    This is actually pretty easy to notice, if she’d made mistakes while campaigning would be talking about her failure with a certain demographic group or failure with a certain state. We aren’t. She was just less popular than Trump in a general sense.

    Kamala Harris failed for two reasons, and the one that was her fault was because she was not, in any way, going to solve any problem for the American people. To be clear, neither is Trump, but she wasn’t pretending to, because Democrats have long since given up on actually doing anything that the American people want.

    The Democrats will not learn that lesson, of course. They are paid way too much by corporate interests to not learn that lesson. A huge chunk of them seem to think an ideal world is Democrats and Republicans barely indistinguishable, directly in ‘the middle’, aka, exactly where corporate interests want them.

    The voters are not happy with that, they have not been happy with that since… Well, that’s arguably the reason that Obama won, but he didn’t really change anything that would have gone against the corporate interests, he just did health care, a thing corporate interests _wanted_. And then we got Trump, when it became clear that nothing else was going to happen. And that is why we ping pong between corporatist interest Democrats who don’t do anything, and an insane criminal lunatic who doesn’t do anything.

    Democrats won’t notice that, they will of course blame the left, I’ve literally already seen a post on this site for that. And in an extremely odd and convoluted way they are correct, but they want to blame the left activists, when in fact the people who failed to vote for them are the entire giant swath of the American population who would vote for Democrats if they thought Democrats WOULD F*CKING DO ANYTHING. Instead, they either fell into misinformation and voted for Trump, or they just didn’t vote.

    (The other reason she failed was the media, which completely just decided act like Trump was normal that electing a convicted felon was normal, that he wasn’t almost incoherent, that he wasn’t literally threatening them, etc.)Report

    • DavidTC in reply to DavidTC
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      says:

      Rereading that, allow me to rephrase “And that is why we ping pong between corporatist interest Democrats who don’t do anything, and an insane criminal lunatic who doesn’t do anything.” By appending ‘to help people’ to both halves.

      Donald Trump does plenty of things. He will do plenty more. None of them will help the people in the slightest, and in fact some of them are going to seriously injure people in general, in addition to people in specific that either he or bigots dislike and have chosen to target.

      But because he has lied, (because this is how fascism works), he has convinced enough American voters that targeting those specific groups are going to make their lives better.

      That’s how fascism always wins, because they are willing to lie about a solution to a problem that is real, and everyone else refuses to do anything about. (Sometimes the problem is literally unsolvable, but it wasn’t here.)Report

      • Dark Matter in reply to DavidTC
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        says:

        Trump was elected because voters liked the Trump economy more than the Biden economy.

        Trump did some things that probably encouraged growth (bureaucracy reform, encouraging oil/gas, new free trade deal) so he gets to claim things.

        Biden did something that probably encouraged inflation, that’s what people are pissed about at the moment.

        Claiming “none of this will help/matters” is an invitation for your guy to get fired. Trump being awful probably hurt him. It wasn’t enough.Report

        • DavidTC in reply to Dark Matter
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          says:

          …new free trade deals? Bureaucracy reform?

          What the hell are you talking about? Please explain how Trump’s trade policies have helped literally anyone at any point, or how enacting tariffs is free trade?

          And the voters are not actually pissed at inflation, despite the media framing it that way. They’re pissed that wages have not followed inflation.

          Which, of course, is because corporate interests have bought both parties, so they will do absolutely nothing to impede corporate interests shoveling money to the wealthy, as they have been since the ’80s.

          Nor will the media actually explain this or call it out, so we are left with enough Americans to vaguely think it is default of immigrants or corporate policies about Black people or something that we get fascism. (Which is actually is the exact same reason we got fascism last time.)

          Edit: Also, people did not like the Trump economy. Like, at all. By the end it had fallen to pieces, although some of that was due to covid, but it already was not doing well. Unemployment more than tripled. That’s why the memes are running around lying and showing covid gas prices, pretending that that means the economy was doing well. If the economy actually was doing well, they’d be showing graphs.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to DavidTC
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      says:

      Donald Trump has demonstrated that it’s possible to win staggered elections.

      The Democrats could run Harris in 2028 (maybe with Shapiro this time) and finish what Biden, the most successful president since FDR, started.Report

  5. DavidTC
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    says:

    Incidentally, in 2020, Joe Biden got approximately 6% of the registered Republican voters.

    This year, with actual Republicans on stage, with Harris, her actively promising to put Republicans in the cabinet, making every outreach to peel Republicans away from Trump, and with both the coup attempt and the legal judgements against Trump…

    Harris got 6% of registered Republican voters.

    And lost 20 million Democratic voters that just wandered off somewhere and didn’t bother to vote.

    What could we possible make of this, going forward? I know, maybe the Democrats should move even _farther_ to the right and reject the radical left. Appeal to centrist Republicans who reject Trump _even harder_. GOTV for them. Bus them to the polls, if need be. If they try hard enough, go right enough, maybe they can get that number up to 7% by 2040!Report

  6. Slade the Leveller
    Ignored
    says:

    Among other winners today we have the United States Capitol Police.Report

  7. Jaybird
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    says:

    Policies that I think would have helped:

    1) Agreeing that crime is up and agreeing that crime is bad.

    We had a situation where crime went up but the FBI had bad data. When people said that crime was up, the response came “no it’s not, look at the numbers!”
    “Do I have bad data?” is a good question to ask, especially if you have bad data.

    Also, pointing out that crime wasn’t as bad as 1985 is a loser argument.

    Crime is bad. This is a simple, almost trivial, observation. Why in the hell would you hand it to Republicans on a silver platter?

    2) Illegal Immigration is bad. People don’t like it. People may like *INDIVIDUAL* undocumented people, but the idea of open borders? People will vote against that in a heartbeat. Gaming the whole “refugee” thing will result in a backlash against real refugees as part of the backlash against the fake ones. This could have been avoided and should have been. This was a real issue driving many voters. Why in the hell would you hand it to Republicans on a silver platter?

    3) Traditional Media has a credibility problem. If the media spends months saying “Crime is down!” and it’s not, “Inflation is Transitory!” and it’s not, “People who don’t like Undocumented Visitors are racist!” and they’re not, “Biden is in great shape!” and he’s not, then when they start shouting stuff like “Trump wants Liz Cheney assassinated!”, nobody will listen. Why in the hell would they? You want the media to be trusted? You have to make it trustworthy.

    Would it have won Kamala the election to change any or all of these? Nah. You’d probably have needed a different candidate entirely to win this election.

    But it would have moved the needle.

    And it sure would be nice to have a credible media right about now.Report

    • Chris in reply to Jaybird
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      says:

      I wonder how these policies would have helped. It looks like as many as 16 million fewer people showed up to vote this time, and of those, 14 million fewer voted for Harris. Do you think those 14 million people didn’t show up because Harris wasn’t tough on crime, immigration, or the media, which just happen to be your pet issues? I’m skeptical, I have to say.Report

      • Jaybird in reply to Chris
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        says:

        According to the University of Florida Election Lab, turnout is really close to 2020. 2020 had 159,738,337 votes, 2024 has around 158,549,000. Look for yourself:

        2020
        2024

        That’s a difference of 1.2 million, not 16 million. (And I’m sure that we’ll see the 2024 number tick up as slowpoke states update their numbers.)

        And do I think that the outcomes would be different if the campaign did different things?

        Yes. I even think that it would have been possible for things to be different in a better direction.Report

      • CJColucci in reply to Chris
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        says:

        Pet issues, surely. Saying crime is up is not a policy, and ranting about American Carnage (TM) is a lie. The plain fact is that crime has been declining for decades and has largely come down to almost unimaginably low levels. Year over year it fluctuates in a narrow band around a low normal, but the trend has been steady for years. Reasonable people can disagree about what needs to be done about the crime we have, but (speaking of traditional media credibility problems) when the rule for local news is “if it bleeds it leads,” people will get the wrong idea about the scope of the problem and fall for anyone who talks tough and has no actual idea what to do that might work. As for illegal immigration, there was a tough compromise bill that would have gone a long way to addressing that, but there are certain people who would rather have a problem to exploit than a solution. And we know who they are. And inflation, as it turns out, was transitory, the traditional media didn’t report that Biden was in great shape, and Trump can speak for himself about Liz Cheney, and did.Report

        • Jaybird in reply to CJColucci
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          says:

          I have a poll, I guess.

          The most important issues to Trump voters were:

          The Economy
          Immigration
          Violent Crime

          Saying “you’re wrong to care about those things” was a bad plan, in my view.Report

          • CJColucci in reply to Jaybird
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            says:

            Indeed it would be a bad plan, which is why it wasn’t the plan. So tell people the truth about the economy and what needs to be done — though they probably won’t listen. Endorse a serious plan to deal with illegal immigration. See where that got us? And explain exactly what you plan to do about the actual levels of violent crime without lying about the scope of the problem. Of course, that will bore voters to tears unless the candidate froths at the mouth and makes tough-sounding noises.Report

          • DavidTC in reply to Jaybird
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            says:

            Saying “you’re wrong to care about those things” was a bad plan, in my view.

            No, it wasn’t. Democrats should not be trying to get Trump votes. Such a very small minority of Republicans vote for the Democrat that it is pointless. This is true, and it will always be true.

            And most ‘undecided’ are either people who are lying either because they think their choice makes them look bad, or that claiming it makes them look smart…or complete and utter morons who will decide who to vote on based on a completely random criteria.

            Elections are not about convincing people to vote for you, period. That is, at most, maybe a 1% impact. 99% of the impact is convincing the people who will vote for you to show up and do that, and/or convincing the people who would vote against you not to show up. It is, entirely, turnout.

            But that poll does explains exactly where Democrats failed. The Harris campaign didn’t care about stuff that Democrats care about…except abortion. (Incidentally, every race that had abortion access on the ballot had it do _better_ than Harris, which implies some people are so idiotically informed they that voted to protect abortion access while re-electing the person who appointed the people who removed it.) They didn’t often anything about health care (Except abortion access, and who knows how often that was the same issue.) or the economy (Except to point out Trump would be worse.)

            This is, as I’ve pointed out a few times, not a campaign failure…it is a policy failure. The reason they did not focus on health care or the economy is they have nothing they are willing to do to make it better. Because anything that would make it meaningfully better would remove the amount of money that corporate America and billionaires are shoving at them.Report

            • InMD in reply to DavidTC
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              says:

              David, I don’t want to pick on you given that many of our commenters most in need of a reality check seem to have have bowed out for a while, but early indicators are that there was something like a 10 point swing towards Trump in urban counties. The bluest parts of the country. You’re sitting here claiming it’s impossible to pick off voters when Trump/the GOP just picked off a bunch of voters.Report

              • DavidTC in reply to InMD
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                says:

                You’re sitting here claiming it’s impossible to pick off voters when Trump/the GOP just picked off a bunch of voters.

                …you do understand that there is no indication those are literally the same voters, right?

                Moreover, I didn’t say no one changed parties…I said they didn’t do it based on the party trying to reach out to them, because, and this is important: The very small minority of people who flip parties are like 90% lunatics.

                The remaining 10% are ‘line in the sand’ types that saw a party actually do something they think is complete unacceptable, and left the party, and thus are not going to be convinced to come back via some campaign rhetoric.

                The most obvious examples being Never Trumpers, but I repeat what I said: There is no need to convince them of anything. Either they think Trump is so unacceptable in office they will vote for the Democrats anyway, or they just feel personally uncomfortable voting for him (and thus are someone who cares more about their own ‘moral integrity’ than the actual result) and thus will not be voting for Democrats regardless, which probably _also_ violates their personal morality.

                I’m sure there is some very hypothetical, almost imaginary middle ground there that might be convinced with outreach, but it is _absolutely_ not worth any sort of outreach if it even _slightly_ depresses your existing voter turnout, because it risks pissing off millions of voters to get, like, two thousand of them…

                …which is part of what happened here.Report

              • InMD in reply to DavidTC
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                says:

                That’s in conflict with what the polls show. Now it’s still early and it’s possible in a few weeks there will be a correction but right now it looks like the Democrats bled core constituencies and that the biggest swings were in blue counties.Report

              • Dark Matter in reply to DavidTC
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                says:

                Turn out numbers suggest Trump got about as many people as he did last time but Blue’s turn out was seriously lower than before.

                Having said that, Trump does seem to have moved people from the Blue groups to Red. Him getting 25% of black males (if that’s the final result) is suggestive and I think he also increased the Hispanic vote.Report

              • InMD in reply to Dark Matter
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                says:

                I have seen various writers urge caution about the turn out thing. Millions of votes are still being counted in CA, and there is historically a lag.

                However there seems to be strong certainty about a significant swing with hispanics and suburban women, and maybe even a black male swing.Report

        • InMD in reply to CJColucci
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          says:

          I think the illegal immigration thing doesn’t tell the whole story. They came in and reversed Trump era orders including in particular the remain in Mexico policy. Trump and the GOP’s torpedoing the bill was the height of cynical BS but what the Biden admin did was begging for a backlash with no substantive upside.

          Where I think Jaybird is a bit off is not putting inflation at the top of the list. It’s seemingly been tamed but stuff remains way more expensive than it was 4 years ago, which has clouded the larger, 40,000 foot economic recovery for many average working people. Under those circumstances this election was going to be hard for Biden or Harris and the numbers have suggested that for quite some time.Report

          • Jaybird in reply to InMD
            Ignored
            says:

            Given the realities on the ground, I think that there was relatively little to be done on inflation.

            Stuff that could have been done:

            1) I feel your pain. It sucks that you’re paying more for staples and feeling the loss of your purchasing power. Biden did a good job of turning stuff around but I’m going to do an even better job. Vote for me, I feel your pain.

            2) *NOT* saying “it’s transitory, you can still eat meat, right?”Report

          • Slade the Leveller in reply to InMD
            Ignored
            says:

            I live near one of the migrant shelters here in Chicago, which is soon to be shut down (Actually, I thought it already had been. I don’t see nearly the number of people there that I saw a few months ago.) It’s in one of the better neighborhoods in the city, the kind of neighborhood that is likely to be blue until the heat death of the universe.

            Anyway, TX Gov. Abbott has shipped about 50,000 people up here, which is just about a few days’ worth of what arrives at the Rio Grande. There hasn’t been any huge overt show of anti-migrant sentiment here despite it putting a strain on the city budget. And we’ve had the usual attendant problems that come with a poor, idle population. I know the local merchants won’t be sad to see them go.

            It got me thinking, however, about how bad things must be at the border. It’s not like the RGV is dotted with large cities that can handle the influx. It’ll be interesting to see what happens at the border after our change of government.Report

            • Chris in reply to Slade the Leveller
              Ignored
              says:

              Immigrants, particularly undocumented immigrants, make up such a huge portion of Texas’ workforce that I fail to understand why it’s such an issue here. And I wonder what people think will happen when those construction and farm workers are deported in huge numbers.Report

              • Philip H in reply to Chris
                Ignored
                says:

                They don’t think about it Chris. They don’t get the connection, and don’t care one wit – and when it collapses they will howl – but not a their Dear Leader.Report

              • Slade the Leveller in reply to Chris
                Ignored
                says:

                This is the correct take. E-Verify has been a thing for 30 years, yet Congress has never seen fit to make it mandatory. It’s not an accident that this is true.Report

              • Philip H in reply to Slade the Leveller
                Ignored
                says:

                But somehow that’s only and completely Obama’s and then Biden’s fault. Because only Democrats have agency.Report

              • Slade the Leveller in reply to Philip H
                Ignored
                says:

                Unfortunately, that’s reality in America like it or not.

                The United States, despite Lady Liberty sitting in New York harbor has always been more aspirational than reality. Nativist sentiment historically has been strong.Report

              • InMD in reply to Slade the Leveller
                Ignored
                says:

                There’s truth to that. There’s also though truth to the US still being among the most welcoming countries in the world to immigrants from all places. It’s a push and pull.

                Mass immigration happened in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, then was cut off for a few decades. We’ve had it again for over 30, maybe more like 40 years. It’s clear that the choice is increaingly between continuing mass illegal immigration and maintaining our liberal democracy. That’s an easy one for me, and the nice thing about liberal democracy is that we can always revisit increasing immigration again when we’re ready.

                I also think people that disagree with me should just take the W. We’ve let in millions upon millions outside of any real process in addition to those that followed the rules. A bunch of ugly things are very likely about to happen but I have a feeling Trump is going to find the logistics of whatever mass deportation scheme he tries pretty daunting. Most of the people who have entered illegally will end up staying. Indeed quite a few have already gotten away with it by being amnestied, or legalized through various roundabout methods. A pause isn’t the end of the world.Report

              • Dark Matter in reply to Chris
                Ignored
                says:

                1) Absorbing huge amounts of immigrants is going to be a strain, especially for healthcare, education, and welfare.

                2) At the border you might have illegals at significant fractions of the town’s population come through every day. This is going to be newsworthy.

                3) Because we’ve chosen to outlaw this, they’re by definition criminals and that will create other crimes and criminals. Disputes between criminals frequently create violence because they don’t have access to the legal system.

                4) There is going to be “Unfair competition for jobs”, the lowering of wages/working conditions, and job displacement.

                5) There will be cultural and linguistic barriers created for natives who don’t speak whatever language the newcomers speak.

                6) This undermines the rule of law.

                7) This creates border security concerns.

                8) They’re going to be a political lightning rod. If I, a leader, have a problem I can’t fix then I can blame illegal immigrants knowing they weren’t going to vote for me anyway.Report

              • Philip H in reply to Dark Matter
                Ignored
                says:

                4) There is going to be “Unfair competition for jobs”, the lowering of wages/working conditions, and job displacement.

                Where are the 15 million Americans who would go back to the fields, on to construction sites, into restaurant dishwashing room and onto cleaning crews who will replace these people?Report

              • Chris in reply to Dark Matter
                Ignored
                says:

                (1) is one I hear a lot, but if you have immigrants working and paying taxes, how are they any more of a strain than you or I? If they’re not paying taxes, that’s only because they are forced to work underground, so to speak, and the obvious solution is to let them work above ground.
                (2) Have you been to the border? I have an old friend in Eagle Pass, and another in Laredo. Neither seems particularly concerned about the people coming into town from the other side of the border, and have been much more concerned about the people coming into town from this side of the border.
                (3) Seems like there’s a simple solution to this one.
                (4) This suggests a complete lack of understanding of the job market and economy generally.
                (5) Man, much of Texas and the Southwest has been speaking Spanish since before English-speakers were on this continent. They’ll be fine.
                (6) See (3).
                (7) For like terrorists? Seems like if you want to secure the border from terrorists, spending all your time arresting people trying to get jobs here is a waste of time and resources.
                (8) They already are a political lighting rod. Also, did you see the RGV election results?Report

          • John Puccio in reply to InMD
            Ignored
            says:

            The solution was to promise to end “price gouging” – which is basically telling the public that we think you’re stupid.Report

  8. joe
    Ignored
    says:

    Nobody believes Trump raped a woman or broke any laws. The country just thoroughly rejected your fascist lawfare.Report

  9. Philip H
    Ignored
    says:

    The Biden Harris Administration led the economy out of COVID into a nearly impossible “soft landing” And it wasn’t enough.

    The Biden Harris Administration led us to historically low unemployment levels. And it wasn’t enough.

    The Biden Harris Administration got massive funding to fix America’s crumbling infrastructure. And it wasn’t enough.

    Makes you wonder what would have bee enough.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to Philip H
      Ignored
      says:

      Blake Allen has an interesting thread. He lists off 10 things:

      1) Democratic failures in urban governance coming to roost

      2) Democratic rejection of media spaces to occupy/have a presence in (Fox for decades now & podcasting spaces popular with “normie” men)

      3) Staffer class (and NGO/activist class) being dominated by elite liberal college ed+ pushing the party

      4) Continued over-belief/reliance on field ops in campaign infrastructure (it’s great to have but clearly of lower importance than other mediums/over-indexing Obama 2012)

      5) Voter rejection of picking employment over inflation (🤷🏻‍♂️)

      6) Continued backlash to weak-on-crime appearance (you can never been seen as too tough on crime to most people)

      7) Doubling on-the-above as voters potentially seeing Democrats as encouraging anti-social behaviors

      8) Post-2016 Democratic movements on immigration being rejected by basically everyone (Democrats tried to arrest that this year but too little too late & border crossing numbers fell way too late to matter)

      9) Dem skepticism on tech sector hurt it with a very influential industry

      10) Legitimate Democratic accomplishments under Biden never broke through to voters which is probably some mixture of voter apathy towards the Democratic policy suite & Democratic comms failures

      Report

      • Philip H in reply to Jaybird
        Ignored
        says:

        Who is he and why should we listen to him?

        That aside –

        1) Not Biden or Harris or even the individual mayor’s faults.

        2) Secretary Pete appeared regularly on Fox as did others. If my fellow males are getting all their information from podcasts they are idiots with way too much time on their unproductive hands. Especially since Biden Harris officials have not only appeared on a good number of podcasts – they HOST podcasts.

        3) DItto the GOP but they don’t pay a price for it.

        4) I might give you this one IF all Americans lived in their mom’s basements and played video games. Which they don’t. If you as a voter want a politician to hear you then I can think of no better way then via ground game.

        5) Nothing Biden could do about this, except keep hammering (to a listless media class) that inflation was and still is coming down.

        6) Americans do love their substance free performative politics don’t they?

        7) again – I fail to see this. Especially when Democrats are – within the resources they have – trying to address that behavior at its root before it becomes crime.

        8) Democrats didn’t control immigration between 2017 and 2021. They left much of the work done in that period in place. And when they agreed to adopt GOP proposals on the subject, Trump tanked the deal. But sure, only Democrats have agency.

        9) Well justified given the willingness to unilaterally disband any guardrails on multi-cultural democracy.

        10) That’s entirely the fault of the media.Report

        • Jaybird in reply to Philip H
          Ignored
          says:

          I don’t know what his credentials are.

          I don’t really care.

          He seems insightful even if I disagree with several of his points.Report

          • Philip H in reply to Jaybird
            Ignored
            says:

            I find his list as insightful as the back of a blank age. He’s tossing easy convenient platitudes against a smooth wall to see what sticks.Report

            • Jaybird in reply to Philip H
              Ignored
              says:

              I read #7 as being about stuff like the Mostly Peaceful Protests that everybody wants to forget about and the recent Barricades of Freedom showing up in college quads.

              That makes it read differently than if I had read it being about shoplifting Tide Pods.Report

              • Philip H in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                Both parties have a First Amendment obligation to encourage the use and protection of the first amendment. And Democrats condemned in the strongest terms they had the riots and accompanied some of those protests.

                What you want us to forget is who was President during 2020 and thus who was ultimately responsible.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Philip H
                Ignored
                says:

                Eh, there was also stuff like Harris tweeting out support for the MN Freedom Fund (to bail out arrested rioters).

                Arguing that the riots were, ultimately, Trump’s fault and therefore the Dems weren’t encouraging anti-social behaviors strikes me as factually inaccurate.Report

              • Philip H in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                The riots wer ethe fault of those who chose to riot and hide inside peaceful protests to do so. Many of whom have been and continue to be prosecuted and punished by our justice system for their crimes in Democratic jurisdictions. Just as those who attacked the Capitol on January 6th continue to be prosecuted, convicted and sentenced for their crimes by a Democratic Administration.

                Donald J Trump was president in 2020. The only place he sent federal law enforcement to quell riots was Portland – where it still appears his minions made a tense but manageable situation worse. Saying the riot’s that sometimes followed social justice protests in 2020 were Democrats fault – and thus a reason they can’t be called serious on crime – betrays both a serious memory hole and a belief that only Democrats had and have agency in social justice issues. It is at best misdirection, at worst outright lying in service of misdirection, and another data point in why I no longer trust you.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Philip H
                Ignored
                says:

                Saying the riot’s that sometimes followed social justice protests in 2020 were Democrats fault – and thus a reason they can’t be called serious on crime – betrays both a serious memory hole and a belief that only Democrats had and have agency in social justice issues.

                That’s not what is being said.

                Here, let me copy and paste it again:

                “Doubling on-the-above as voters potentially seeing Democrats as encouraging anti-social behaviors”

                You may not see posting the bail funds for rioters in the middle of the rioters as encouraging anti-social behavior, but I imagine that you can understand how someone else would see it that way.

                And if your personal overton window can’t open that far, we’ve found part of the problem.Report

          • Joe in reply to Jaybird
            Ignored
            says:

            FWIW he also thinks Pete B. should be DNC Chair – which IMO is not a bad idea. https://x.com/Blake_Allen13/status/1854176571986243702Report

            • Jaybird in reply to Joe
              Ignored
              says:

              He makes some good points! Getting rid of Howard Dean’s 50-state strategy was stupid.

              We need someone smart and thick-skinned enough to bring it back.

              “Yes, well, if we want to get a democrat elected in North Dakota, we’re going to have to nominate someone who supports fracking.”

              And be willing to have that conversation 100 times a day.Report

            • Slade the Leveller in reply to Joe
              Ignored
              says:

              I saw the same tweet and I 100% agree.Report

  10. Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    Bernie has a take:

    Report

  11. Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    MattY has a good post and, I think, a good way forward for Democrats.

    1. Economic self-interest for the working class includes robust economic growth
    2. Climate Change is a reality to manage not a hard limit to obey
    3. The government should prioritize the interests of normal people over those who people who engage in antisocial conduct
    4. We should, in fact, judge people by the content of their character rather than by the color of their skin
    5. While race is a social construct, biological sex is not
    6. Academics and nonprofit staffers do not occupy a unique position of virtue relative to private sector workers
    7. Politeness is a virtue but obsessive language policing alienates normal people and degrades the quality of thinking
    8. We are equal in the eyes of God, but the American government can and should prioritize the interests of American citizens
    9. Public services must be run in the interests of their users not their providers

    The only downside is that Republicans would be in varying states of agreement with every single one of these.Report

    • InMD in reply to Jaybird
      Ignored
      says:

      I’m in complete agreement with that.Report

      • DavidTC in reply to InMD
        Ignored
        says:

        You would be.

        Hey, question: Did you vote for Harris?

        If so, why do you think you are the person the Democrats need to convince?Report

        • InMD in reply to DavidTC
          Ignored
          says:

          Just because you voted for a person or a party doesn’t mean you can’t see their flaws, or that you can’t know anything about the people who voted differently. I’m not one of those who was on here predicting a landslide.Report

    • Chris in reply to Jaybird
      Ignored
      says:

      I find the criticism from the center, criticisms coming after she ran in many ways as a moderate Republican, bringing moderate Republican endorsers with her to rallies, to be particularly silly.

      #2 in particular, seems both out of touch with her campaign, and out of touch with the reality of climate change.Report

      • Jaybird in reply to Chris
        Ignored
        says:

        We all remember the three legs of the Republican Stool, right? Social Conservatives, Fiscal Conservatives, and Hawks.

        Each of these three groups had cousins. The Social Conservatives had the Paleocons, the Fiscal Conservatives had the Libertarians, and the Hawks had the Neocons.

        The moderate Republicans she brought over were the Neocons.

        Of all of the moderate Republicans to appeal to, she tried to appeal to the ones who were impressed by the endorsement of Dick Cheney.Report

    • Philip H in reply to Jaybird
      Ignored
      says:

      All of that already happens right now today in America. – including robust economic growth. If someone in Matt Y’s allegedly lofty position can’t or won’t see it, Democrats were never going to convince anyone else of it either.

      Idiot.Report

  12. LeeEsq
    Ignored
    says:

    There was a real but hidden enthusiasm for many people to vote for Trump. In fact many people seemed to only literally want to vote for Trump and did not vote for anything else on the ballot. This seemed especially true in Nevada and North Carolina. One of the theories I’ve been working out in the head is maybe that the nature of politics in the ages of memes, TikToks, and vibes has changed and the Right picked it up a lot earlier globally. The British historian Dominic Sandbrook notes that one of the strengths of the Conservatives under Thatcher compared to Labour politicians was that they picked up on the use of ads and TV earlier. Labour kept running over old school campaigns and lost heavily until Neil Kinnock became head of Labour. Republicans and the Global Right seem to know how to use social media more to get out voters than the Global Left.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to LeeEsq
      Ignored
      says:

      Eric Cortellessa has a thread where he talks about how Trump’s team deliberately put him on a bunch of podcasts that have massive young male audiences: Logan Paul, Theo Von, and, yes, Joe Rogan.Report

    • DensityDuck in reply to LeeEsq
      Ignored
      says:

      Regarding my long-ago post about road signs…

      1) I actually did see a lot more “TRUMP-VANCE” signs pop up, so I guess the local RNC office just wasn’t as quick to deploy them as the DNC operation. I did still see “Republican candidates but no TRUMP-VANCE sign” but it ended up about eighty-twenty “with” instead of the earlier ninety-ten “without”.

      2) I also saw, as you mention, that a lot of signs were just “TRUMP”, no mention of Vance at all. And, like I’ve also said before, this was about vibes; people voted for both Trump and AOC, they voted for both Trump and for abortion-rights protections.

      People are trying to find a lesson in this election and I think the only lesson we can take is that Americans love a heel as the headliner.Report

  13. Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    Arizona was called about an hour ago.

    This means that Trump won every single swing state.Report

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