History Will Be Made: Harris VS Trump

Luis A. Mendez

Boricua. Floridian. Theist. Writer. Podcaster. Film Critic. Oscars Predictor. Occasional Psephologist. Member Of The Critics Association Of Central Florida, The International Film Society Critics, And The Puerto Rico Critics Association.

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39 Responses

  1. North
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    Good summary, doesn’t make for soothing reading to me though which is probably for the best.

    One other lift for Harris that I’d like to note is that the lefts’ purity dragon seems absent. In 2000 and in 2016 coming off two term Democratic presidencies the left went on purity kicks and seriously considered what they deemed more “pure” alternatives like Nader in 2000 and Bernie in 2016. I haven’t gotten much vibe that Biden is facing this issue. Trump really horrifies the left now, Biden’s only had one term, Biden’s been much less right wing than the left expected, Harris ticks several identity boxes. I’m not sure which factor is decisive but I don’t think that charlatan Jill is going to pull material numbers.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to North
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      There was a minor spat between AOC and Jill Stein and the long knives have started coming out for Stein.

      The only purity stuff that doesn’t get immediately torpedoed is related to the whole Israel/Palestine thing.Report

    • Chris in reply to North
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      I dunno how representative my own wider social circle is, but both in person and online, but among the electorally-minded leftists (basically, DSA and Berniecrats), it seems the majority are not only going to hold their noses and vote for Harris, but are trying to convince everyone else to do so as well. There are still a substantial number of holdouts, mostly over the Occupation and the ongoing genocide, but I suspect that the majority of leftier folks who voted for Biden (and most Bernie voters did) will vote for her.

      I’ve only seen a handful of Stein defenders, well down from ’16 and even ’20 (when there were significantly fewer than ’16), so the battle will probably be to convince the holdouts to vote in the presidential election at all.Report

      • North in reply to Chris
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        This is commensurate with my own more limited experiences and observations. I appreciate you sharing as I’m not deep into most of the really lefty communities.Report

        • Chris in reply to North
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          I assume where Harris is going to have real problems is not with electorally-minded leftists, but with usually reliable Dem voters, in Michigan in particular, who will note vote for this administration unless they take drastic action to stop the genocide, which they of course will not do. I don’t know if there are enough such voters to cause her to lose the election, but if I were on her team I’d be a bit concerned.Report

      • DavidTC in reply to Chris
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        I want to second that.

        Russia is pretty determined to troll leftist spaces with purity concern-trolling, but everyone seems pretty determined to call them out.

        Everyone understands there’s absolutely no way to Trump would be better on Palestine, and in fact the disaster of Trump and everyone uniting to fight him would almost certainly put that entire situation completely out of mind of everyone, and we’d just keep supply Israel forever. (In fact, if he was elected, uniting to fight Trump and ditching Palestine might, arguable, be the only possible thing anyone could do, no matter how much they care about that issue. When fascism is burning your own house down with you inside, you sorta need to stop caring about how you’re supplying gasoline to other arsonists.)

        With regard to Palestine, I think the left is standing there, waiting, to hit her hard the second she wins, with the hope that she is (unlike Biden) is conceivable on the topic. I suspect this is going to be a huge issue of the start of her presidency.

        As for other stuff…the left has the same issue there as it does with the rest of the utterly-apathetic-to-actual-problems liberal agenda, and Harris at least isn’t a billion years old and might actually be willing to do interesting things.Report

    • Saul Degraw in reply to North
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      I think Harris has advantages that are being overlooked by a lot of polls which have not updated their models since the replacement drama. Hundreds of thousands of people have registered to vote since she became the nominee, the vast majority of these are young women, and young women vote more frequently than young men. 18-29 year old women are also much to the left.

      From what I’ve read Trump’s ground game is zero and outsourced. Harris has lots of cash, volunteers, and ground game. There is also Robinson putting NC in play more and that has not been reflected in the polls yet.

      Frankly, the Times/Sienna have been outliers in being more Trump friendly during the entire election cycle. Additionally, she and Walz have net favorable ratings. Trump could still get an EC black swan but I think Harris has hidden strengths that the very serious pundits and pollsters like to ignore because it involves icky, women’s issues like abortion.Report

      • DensityDuck in reply to Saul Degraw
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        Driving around town I see a lot of yards with signs for local/state/congressional Democratic candidates, and in almost every location (as in, “only two counterexamples so far”) there’s also a Harris/Walz sign.

        The opposite is the case for yards with Republican signs; so far I’ve only seen two Trump signs (and they’re both “TRUMP 2024”, no mention of Vance) and in one place the Trump sign is the only sign present.

        I’m not sure what this means, maybe it doesn’t mean anything, but it’s something I’ve noticed.Report

        • North in reply to DensityDuck
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          I’m urban so, of course, Trump support is very low and I don’t see any Trump signs. Most of the Harris signs I’ve seen are home made.

          But that is a very curious observation about Trump signs. When I drive out to the country for visits a prominent sign I see is “Vote Republican, they may suck but the other party is INSANE” which strikes me as bold.Report

          • InMD in reply to North
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            Unscientific but I feel like I have seen a lot less signage generally. I am in a close-in very, very blue suburb. There is a concentration of signs in a heavily Orthodox Jewish neighborhood near me (some Harris-Walz, some Larry Hogan, no Trump that I’ve seen). When I go out to the sticks I occasionally will see an ostentatious banner or two for MAGA/Trump but it feels less than before.

            I take it as a signal that even places with a significant partisan lean are yearning to get passed the intensity of the last 8ish years. In my more optimistic moments I like to think that favors Harris, but that could just be my own partisan lean.Report

            • North in reply to InMD
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              You and me both. I keep thinking “anyone who’s not affirmatively pro-Trump now will surely break for Harris or non-voting instead of Trump barring some black swan” but I fear that is wishful thinking.

              Ironically, I am going on a cruise the week of the election, so it is going to be an extra awkward election for me. Bloody friends having 50th’s on election week. The cheek!Report

            • Saul Degraw in reply to InMD
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              Sinage means nothing. I don’t see many Harris-Walz signs in SF. That doesn’t mean she is going to underperform here.Report

      • North in reply to Saul Degraw
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        I very very much hope you are correct Saul. But I also think about past campaigns where we liberals talked confidently about how we had a large, organized ground game vs the opponents having a rock in a sock and how it turned out. I would really love some happier polls though, I grant, the polls sure are happier now than they were with poor Uncle Joe.Report

        • Saul Degraw in reply to North
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          https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/

          Morning Consult has her up 5 with likely voters and an 11K sample and Ipsos has her up 6 but with a bunch smaller pool. I think this is more Obama than HRC/Biden territory.

          There is something to looking at data honestly and not deluding yourself. Some swing state polls are still very tight and it could break for Trump but this is different than looking at data and assuming the worst or data that supports you is suspect. That is a psychological defense mechanism/hinderance.

          And there seem to be a lot more sincerely enthusiastic voters for Harris among the young than Chris’ hold your nose crowd. I think we need a few more days or a week to see how Robinson’s scandals and collapse hurts NC Republicans and Trump in NC.

          Plus the Times still oversamples Republicans and gives them more weight.Report

  2. Marchmaine
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    I wish I had a good read on how my local orthodox Catholic community intends to vote, but conversations about politics have gone somewhat underground. There’s definitely a small contingent that is very Pro-Trump but I don’t see them making in-roads, and in fact they’ve alienated quite a few folks who were reliable republicans. Mostly it feels like quiet despair in the political process; there’s no enthusiasm, not even negative enthusiasm.

    Resigned negative polarization is best I can fathom… if there are three types of voters, these voters are looking for a reason to stay home. More than last time will vote Solidarity in protest.Report

    • Chris in reply to Marchmaine
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      Excluding people who openly consider themselves “TradCaths”, conservative Catholics do seem surprisingly close-lipped about electoral politics, particularly given how closely aligned their cultural politics have become with Evangelicals, a group of people who can’t shut up about electoral politics.Report

      • Marchmaine in reply to Chris
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        Most TradCaths I know are not MAGA, but similar to me they won’t shut-up about whatever our bespoke political philosophy that we can’t vote for but would if we could should be. So, yeah, getting an opinion of any sort is pretty easy with that crowd.

        Catholics and Evangelicals are political allies only as long as neither knows the other supports the thing they’re allied on. Suggesting anything closer is a bit of a category error springing from failed Bush II projects.Report

        • DensityDuck in reply to Marchmaine
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          I think people have learned that their family and friends really will cut them out of their lives if they express Wrong Opinions, so they just don’t talk about it anymore.Report

          • CJColucci in reply to DensityDuck
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            And this is different from when?Report

            • Marchmaine in reply to CJColucci
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              It’s different in my lifetime… maybe it was more the case in the 1850s when you were a kid 🙂 … but the post-war consensus was real.

              We had entire culturally affirming TV shows that were about Republicans and Democrats living together and marrying each other.

              It’s different; doesn’t mean that what’s happening today will get worse, it could get better! Or stay the same… but I’d disagree that the current Red/Blue tribalism is the same as it always has been.Report

              • CJColucci in reply to Marchmaine
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                The post-war consensus just means that there were fewer Wrong Opinions that people might express than there are now, but there were plenty even then. Just different ones, many of which used to be Right Opinions back in the day.

                As for the 1850’s, I used to get my grand-nieces and nephews by telling them that when I was in school they didn’t teach history because there hadn’t been enough yet.Report

          • Marchmaine in reply to DensityDuck
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            Certainly possible… but I’m talking about groups that I can travel between freely — from Charismatics to OrthoCaths to TradCaths to RadTrads and most places between.

            There’s no consensus, not even a ‘lesser of two evils’ consensus — which is doubly interesting because the Pope recently threw up his hands and said it’s a lesser of two evils election, but darned if he could tell which evil to vote for (since he’s not an American). Which isn’t to bring the Pope into American politics (about which he is famously ill-informed) — it’s just to say that the ‘lesser of two evils’ framing used to mean something and now it doesn’t mean what it used to mean from a consensus point of view.

            In the end, people will vote as they’ve habitually voted … so I don’t see any meaningful electoral shifts coming, just a growing sense that there’s no way out of the box.Report

            • InMD in reply to Marchmaine
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              I think the lack of unity on partisan politics is a strength of Catholicism more generally, and why I give it a better chance of continued survival than many other faiths. My experience with it, which I know is probably quite different from yours, is that it skews normie.Report

    • Marchmaine in reply to Marchmaine
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      says:

      p.s. When is the quadrennial OT Presidential Prediction Thread going up? Oct 1?

      At this point I think we have as much prognosticator juice as we’re going to get this cycle.Report

      • Jaybird in reply to Marchmaine
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        I’ll aim for October. (I have a couple of essays that I will want to finish up first. But once both of them are done, I’ll put the prediction thread up.)

        And there is more juice to come.

        Whether the juice is worth the squeeze might be up in the air…

        But we’re going to get at least 5 more news cycles.Report

  3. Saul Degraw
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    says:

    There is something anemic about discussing this as a historic election one way or another. It is that kind of bland, lets be coward statement out media likes to make so much.

    I am generally pretty optimistic about Harris’ chances. Trump could still pull off an EC victory or it could be no clear victory after Nov 5 (electoral college chaos) but I think Democrats are not going to accept judicial cahoots so easily this time. Plus I think the polls are missing out on the Dobbs factor and the voter registrations since Harris became the presumptive nominee.Report

  4. Joe
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    Solid perspective. Thank you.Report

  5. Saul Degraw
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    Let’s watch Trump do something probably illegal or at least illegal looking: https://x.com/ronfilipkowski/status/1838350186097041668?s=46Report

  6. Saul Degraw
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    says:

    https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/25171447/240405-nbc-september-2024-poll_922-release.pdf

    FWIW, Harris and Walz have net favorable ratings in this poll. Trump and Vance do not.Project 2025 is a dumpster fire of unfavorable ratings. “Socialism” is also unpopular but god knows what people are thinking when they here the term.

    The Democratic and Republican Parties are equally unpopular and that is probably just negative partisanshipReport

  7. John Smith
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    says:

    eagerly waiting… 🙂Report

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