Presidential Standards and Fitness

Burt Likko

Pseudonymous Portlander. Pursuer of happiness. Bon vivant. Homebrewer. Atheist. Recovering Republican. Recovering Catholic. Recovering divorcé. Editor-in-Chief Emeritus of Ordinary Times. Relapsed Lawyer, admitted to practice law (under his real name) in California and Oregon. There's a Twitter account at @burtlikko, but not used for posting on the general feed anymore. House Likko's Words: Scite Verum. Colite Iusticia. Vivere Con Gaudium.

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58 Responses

  1. Pinky
    Ignored
    says:

    My list is: moral, experienced, conservative, intelligent, capable. The last two presidents average 1.5 / 5. The previous five averaged 3.4 / 5.

    ETA: I just ran your list through my calculator, and got the past two presidents at 1 / 4 and the prior five averaging 3.2 / 4. I didn’t know how to assess them as judges of character, so I dropped that one.Report

    • Burt Likko in reply to Pinky
      Ignored
      says:

      To be fair, I’m including in my thought about being a “good judge of other people” an assessment of their character, but also their abilities and motivations. To me, this is the core skill of an executive, perhaps even more important than what GWHB called “the vision thing.” That’s because even if a leader lacks a direction towards which to motivate her people, at least she can be a good caretaker of the entity she’s leading until a vision comes along from elsewhere. But she always is going to need to work through other people, so she’s always going to need to know what they’re made of.Report

  2. Chip Daniels
    Ignored
    says:

    My list is someone who will:
    Preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution.Report

  3. Dark Matter
    Ignored
    says:

    At the top, Washington and Lincoln.
    At the bottom, Buchanan and Trump.
    All four of them for preserving (or not) the institution.

    Buchanan setting the stage for the civil war should have earned him the worst spot forever; However Trump’s insurrection, refusing to hand over power, and running on dismantling democracy give Buchanan a run for the spot.

    FDR (imho) gets far more credit than he deserves and less blame. He handled WW2 correctly but good grief he also extended the depression for years by going to war with “the rich”.

    Andrew Johnson (guy after Lincoln) deserves to be in the bottom 5 but not the bottom 2 (more a reflection of them than him).

    Nixon’s negatives are brutal but he did some good things (China) so I’m not sure if he’s the same or not.

    Reagan deserves to be in the top quarter, maybe the top 5 (but not top 2) but his top 5 spot is somewhat hampered by his dementia at the end.

    Harrison is hard. Guy died 31 days into his term and was sick before that. A combo of exhaustion, not getting out of wet clothing, bad medical treatment did him in. Basically he should be listed as “nothing” with anyone below him being outright negative.

    I’d put Biden above the median. Good but not great. What really makes him shine is how he’s the first one in a while that actually does the job.Report

    • Daniel Buss in reply to Dark Matter
      Ignored
      says:

      After a little more thought.

      Johnson should be 3rd worst. Nixon I’ll call 4th.
      Reagan in the top 5 (going to give him credit for winning the cold war).

      Basically you get to be in the top tier by winning a war and/or preserving the country… which means you get to be in the bottom by the reverse.

      All four of the bottom four were either thrown out of office for cause or should/could have been.Report

  4. Greg In Ak
    Ignored
    says:

    Good list of attributes. A good list shouldn’t’ have a political spin but be about personal qualities.

    There is a part of me that struggles with adjectives like “inspirational” since that’s not what i care about much. I rarely if ever watch pol speeches and i want a competent manager as prez. However i’m a werido on that since most people want an inspirational leader. Granted i admire and see the need for inspirational leaders at the worst times. So FDR is way up there. Churchill, despite not being prez and having plenty of controversy, was a great inspirational leader. So i would have something like inspirational on any list.

    Humility is something a good prez should have. Sadly there are many many factors in modern society that push against that. Just the ego required to run for prez for one. People seem to eat up bragging and taking credit. But someone who is personally aware of their own limits as a person and ours as a country would be good. I think Biden has this pretty well. Trump…..lol. Nor sure how many prez’s have had that. Ike prob did but his life experience would lead that way.Report

    • Burt Likko in reply to Greg In Ak
      Ignored
      says:

      We can all come up with our own lists of what makes a good leader. While everyone’s list will of course be somewhat different than anyone else’s, I suspect that if one undertakes the exercise with sobriety and good faith, whatever winds up on that person’s list will be traits that Donald Trump mostly lacks. The man is nearly the opposite of a good leader.Report

  5. Michael Siegel
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m reminded of when P.J. O’Rourke explain his support for Clinton in 2016: “She’s bad, but bad within normal parameters” Biden isn’t bad, but he’s mediocre within normal parameters. I’ll take that.Report

    • DavidTC in reply to Michael Siegel
      Ignored
      says:

      I’m reminded of an observation I made shortly into his term, that Trump was managing to fail in ways we had literally never bothered to include in presidental qualifications, like not being able to neutrally wish the entire population of the US a happy New Year, or talking appropriately in front of Boy Scouts.

      Do you all even remember that micro-scandal, where Trump couldn’t even competently and neutrally address the _Boy Scout Jamboree_ without wandering into politics and attacking Obamacare and telling them the economy was doing great and had some weird sexual innuendo about William Levitt and his sexy sexy yacht parties?

      On top of Donald Trump failing in the way we expect corrupt evil presidents to fail, he managed to fail in ‘Act like a normal person and behave appropriately for the situation.’, a consideration we’ve literally never had to think about for a president before.

      Georgia W Bush could do it, and he sometimes had problems just making words! But no one was wondering ‘Is he going to brag about sexy yacht parties while addressing these children?’

      Even _Richard Nixon_, a man who always seemed to be uncomfortable with other people, and as the tapes have shown, was often fairly bigoted, could just…fake a smile and say ‘Happy New Year’.Report

      • Burt Likko in reply to DavidTC
        Ignored
        says:

        Is there a book somewhere that compiles the profound weirdnesses, scandals, random chaos, and all-around self-parody that was the Trump Administration? If I wrote it, I’d call it “208 Infrastructure Weeks” but man I don’t have the patience for something like that.Report

      • Michael Cain in reply to DavidTC
        Ignored
        says:

        One of the fundamental skills a politician should have in a media age is “hit your mark, deliver your lines”.

        I have read stories about The Apprentice that flat out say Trump couldn’t do it. He would, for example, fire the wrong person and leave the set. Then the director and writers were left to find enough footage they could splice together to make that fit some sort of story.

        Even in Reagan’s second term, as dementia set in, his years as a professional actor left him with the ability to learn the lines, hit the mark, and deliver them on the first take.

        I had a great deal more respect for actors generally after a tech job required me to make a bunch of video clips. Hit the mark, deliver your lines, sound like you’re as enthusiastic about it on the fifth take as the first.Report

      • DensityDuck in reply to DavidTC
        Ignored
        says:

        One of the things I always thought was really weird was how Trump didn’t manage to make any money off of COVID. Like, people talk about him being this business negotiator genius, but, like, he didn’t even think to pick a mask factory and tell them “your product is officially certified by the FDA as of now, oh also Barron’s on your board of directors as of now”.Report

  6. DensityDuck
    Ignored
    says:

    “Why can’t we get any good Presidential candidates?”

    Well, there were five other Republican Presidential candidates in 2016. For the most part, nobody wanted to talk about them. Everyone was really excited about trying to get Donald Trump to admit that when he said “blood coming out of her wherever” he really did mean her naughty bits. Everyone was really excited about how he said Ted Cruz had a small wiener. Everyone was really excited about all the crazy stuff he said. Donald Trump flapping his arms and smirking was more important to the news than Ted Cruz suggesting he’d suspend the H-1B program.

    And, y’know. Any time someone suggested we should talk about the other candidates the answer was a quick dismissal, usually with a quip. Ted Cruz? Oh, the guy whose dad was the Zodiac Killer, LOL. Marco Rubio? The Uncle Tom, LOL. Scott Walker? The guy who wanted to fire all the teachers, LOL. So, y’know, not exactly a lot of interest in discussing whether anyone other than Trump might be worthy; obviously you don’t care, so why should we put forth a lesser evil?Report

    • Jaybird in reply to DensityDuck
      Ignored
      says:

      A take that I see bubble up a lot is the whole issue of how Romney was treated no better than Trump (“back in chains”, etc).

      If the Republicans that will deserve Strange New Respect and the ones that are an obvious threat to Our Democracy are indistinguishable… well, why the hell not be hung for a sheep as a lamb?

      Hell, for the 20 minutes that DeSantis was polling better than Trump, we started seeing “worse than Trump” takes instead of “thank goodness, a person with executive experience who is within the acceptable margins of being bad!”

      We had to jump immediately to “Worse than Trump!”

      Would DeSantis have been worse than Trump? Hell if I know. Will the 2028 candidate be “Worse than Trump”? Yeah, probably.Report

      • Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird
        Ignored
        says:

        I keep pointing out that the foundation of Trumpism is the grievance of white males who are not getting the respect to which they believe they are entitled.Report

        • Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels
          Ignored
          says:

          Eh, the various growth in Trump’s numbers among non-white demographics hint that there may be other dynamics.

          Do you have any explanations that don’t happen to flood your own brain with endorphins?Report

          • Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird
            Ignored
            says:

            I’m just repeating back to you your own words.

            That Trumpists feel aggrieved disrespected, not given the respect they are entitled to. Whether he picks up some nonwhite support doesn’t change that fact. I mean, you are the one telling us this so I don’t know why you would take issue with it.Report

            • Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels
              Ignored
              says:

              Ah, I see. You’re using the term broadly enough that it could apply to anything.

              “Why do Black people consistently vote for democrats?”
              “They don’t feel the respect that they think they are entitled to.”

              When you phrase it that way, yes. I agree.

              You know why Trump is picking up other demographics? Those other demographics don’t feel the respect that they think they are entitled to.

              Is that why you’re going to vote for Biden?Report

              • Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                No it doesn’t apply broadly.
                Most demographics vote for a candidate based on what they think will benefit them, or their nation.
                Romney voters, Obama voters, McCain voters, Bush voters can all be described this way.

                Trump is unique in that his appeal is rooted solidly in what you describe, a sense of grievance and disrespect.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels
                Ignored
                says:

                This is the “I am Firm; You are Obstinate; He is a Pig-headed Fool” game.

                The Trump voters aren’t voting for what they think will benefit them or their nation?

                Nope! They’re just being selfish.

                Now the guys on *MY* team? We’re voting for what will benefit us and our nation.Report

              • Philip H in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                The Trump voters aren’t voting for what they think will benefit them or their nation?

                They are very much voting for what they think will benefit them. They believe that voting for Trump will cause the rest of us to give them the respect they think they deserve. They think voting for Trump will give them back economic, social and political power they believe they have lost. They believe that voting for Trump will make America “Strong” in the way that being a bully makes a school yard kid “strong.”

                They don’t care about the rest of the nation.Report

        • DensityDuck in reply to Chip Daniels
          Ignored
          says:

          Chip, old squirt, this isn’t about respect, this is about me not taking Democrats seriously when they say they would engage seriously with a Republican candidate who was an intelligent person who genuinely wanted to solve problems instead of just being a racist retard.Report

          • Philip H in reply to DensityDuck
            Ignored
            says:

            Jeb Bush would have made a good president. I worked under him when he was governor of Florida. He had good name recognition, GOP lineage, etc. I believe I said so at the time.

            And yet here we are.Report

          • Chip Daniels in reply to DensityDuck
            Ignored
            says:

            If the Republicans that will deserve Strange New Respect and the ones that are an obvious threat to Our Democracy are indistinguishable… well, why the hell not be hung for a sheep as a lamb?

            Or as another person put is, “I am your retribution.”Report

            • Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels
              Ignored
              says:

              Why should I compromise when I am in the right?

              You should compromise.Report

              • Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                The Trumpists want retribution for lack of respect, not compromise.

                Seriously, you should listen to them. Or just read your own writing.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels
                Ignored
                says:

                Yeah, I’m not sure how much credence to give your interpretation.

                We could well be in “every accusation is a confession” territory.

                Have you recently cooked with/for a Trumpist? Like eaten in their house or had them over to eat at yours?Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Philip H
                Ignored
                says:

                I wasn’t asking you, Phil.

                Though would you say that your Trumpist friend is a particularly resentful grievance-monger?

                Do you find Chip’s description of Trumpists to accurately fit your friend?Report

              • Philip H in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                I find his descriptions to fit nearly all my friends locally, most of my neighbors and most of the political establishment around me. To the point that I have to drink my beer in silence at kids birthday parties.

                How often do you eat with Trumpists?Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Philip H
                Ignored
                says:

                I eat with Trumpists at least once a week and sometimes up to four or five.

                My experience of them is that they’re somewhat jovial, involved in their community, tight with their family, and fun to do stuff with… such as eat with them (and cook for/with them) regularly. If, for whatever reason, I have to miss an evening here or there, I miss them and look forward to the next get-together.

                Saturday seems to be the next one. (Monday was the last one.)

                And I have never once felt like I should drink my beer in silence when I hung with them.

                Are they friends of yours or just, you know, acquaintances that you see when your kids and their kids happen to go to the same place?Report

              • Philip H in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                Both.

                As but one example: At the moment they are siding with our governor – who does not want to expand Medicare for any reason under the ACA – over our state legislators (including people they elected) who are finally doing so via legislation because it makes good business sense. Why? Because they won’t get any (or so they think); no one else should, and even if a few people should, most people who would don’t deserve to.

                Grievances Jay.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Philip H
                Ignored
                says:

                Medicare expansion or Medicaid expansion?Report

              • Michael Cain in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                Medicaid. Medicare is a purely federal program. Not that I blame Philip. When I worked on the Colorado legislature budget staff, doing presentations before the joint budget committee, I almost always hesitated to make sure I said Medicaid.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Michael Cain
                Ignored
                says:

                Oh, I wasn’t blaming him either.

                I was just thinking “I can think of a handful of reasons to oppose Medicaid Expansion but it’d take a lot more work to oppose Medicare Expansion” and just wanted to clarify.Report

              • Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                Honestly this schtick of “:You don’t understaaaand us!” is juvenile, but in keeping with the overall juvenile character of Trumpists.

                The dominant themes we keep hearing from them is self-pity, grievance, a sense of persecution and unwarranted grandiosity.

                This is why I picked up on your comment, of how they “might as well” vote from Trump since they were going to be accused of being reactionary anyway.

                This is in line with the adolescent who angrily says that since Mom won’t let him have a beer he “might as well” shoot heroin. It will be all their fault, you see.

                Self pity, refusal to take responsibility for their own actions, victimhood- its all being displayed by the man himself, who they all see as a soulmate.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels
                Ignored
                says:

                While I appreciate that you have no reason to believe that you have misunderstood anything about the people you oppose, the sheer number of people who have come before you who have done so should give you pause.

                Have you recently cooked with/for a Trumpist? Like eaten in their house or had them over to eat at yours?Report

              • Chip Daniels in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                I have had many intimate interactions with Trumpists, and they all sound like this:

                The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!Report

              • Trumpist, or Maladjusted Teenager? in reply to Chip Daniels
                Ignored
                says:

                I did nothing wrong, except build a successful and very liquid company, owning some of the Greatest Properties in the World, and defeat Hillary Rodham Clinton and the Democrats in the 2016 Presidential Election, an Election which a Republican was not expected to win. I am now the Presumptive Republican Nominee, and likewise, dominating Joe Biden, the Democrat Nominee, in the Polls. This is a Weaponized Attack on Joe Biden’s Political Opponent, unlike anything that has happened in the History of the United States. This is a Political Witch Hunt, and will lead to the destruction of New York State, with businesses and people fleeing by the thousands, while criminals continue to roam the streets. We will continue to appeal until Justice prevails!

                Wow, this is so inscrutable. Truly, a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma!Report

              • Chip Daniels in reply to Chip Daniels
                Ignored
                says:

                The Persecution of Donald Trump Means Turning Ordinary Activities Into Crimes
                https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2024/02/the_persecution_of_donald_trump_means_turning_ordinary_activities_into_crimes.html

                “Persecution”; There’s that word again.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Chip Daniels
                Ignored
                says:

                While I appreciate you answering a question that I did not ask, could you answer the questions that I did?

                Here, I’ll ask them again:

                Have you recently cooked with/for a Trumpist? Like eaten in their house or had them over to eat at yours?Report

              • CJColucci in reply to Jaybird
                Ignored
                says:

                What is it like not to have self-awareness or shame?Report

              • Jaybird in reply to CJColucci
                Ignored
                says:

                I wouldn’t know.

                I find myself painfully self-aware most of the time. As for shame? Eh. I have a sense of it. I just think that different things are shameful than many of my interlocutors seem to.

                I mean, seriously. They brag about stuff that it would take waterboarding to get out of me.Report

    • Philip H in reply to DensityDuck
      Ignored
      says:

      As you will recall, Trump won by pluralities in 206, not majorities in any of the states where he competed in primaries. The GOP could have squashed his candidacy early on by going from 6 to 2, and out spending him. They chose not to because they considered him useful in accomplishing their political objectives.Report

  7. CJColucci
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m old enough to remember people saying the same things about arch-segregationists and supporters of Jim Crow. And you know what? It was true. If anything, it was truer then, because they were more secure in their positions than their counterparts are now and less consumed by resentment.Report

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