What happens if Trump or Biden drops out?

David Thornton

David Thornton is a freelance writer and professional pilot who has also lived in Georgia, Florida, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas. He is a graduate of the University of Georgia and Emmanuel College. He is Christian conservative/libertarian who was fortunate enough to have seen Ronald Reagan in person during his formative years. A former contributor to The Resurgent, David now writes for the Racket News with fellow Resurgent alum, Steve Berman, and his personal blog, CaptainKudzu. He currently lives with his wife and daughter near Columbus, Georgia. His son is serving in the US Air Force. You can find him on Twitter @CaptainKudzu and Facebook.

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14 Responses

  1. Pinky
    Ignored
    says:

    What if a jury finds President-elect Trump guilty of insurrection between November 5 and January 6? or before January 20?Report

  2. Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    The arguments that Biden won’t be on the ballot in November don’t strike me as particularly persuasive but that doesn’t mean that they strike me as *CRAZY*. I could easily see a handful of events happening between now and then that result in someone else being on the ballot. I just don’t think it’s as likely as the guy making the argument.

    The arguments that Trump won’t be on the ballot in November strike me as somewhat more persuasive but the argument that he’ll still be on the ballot also don’t strike me as crazy.

    I could easily see a handful of events happening between now and then that change things.

    Remember in 2016 how everything felt supersaturated and we were just waiting for a seed crystal? It kind of feels like that again. Every week an October surprise. To be forgotten by the following week’s new one. Until something *ACTUALLY* changes.Report

  3. North
    Ignored
    says:

    Eh, I’m not concerned on the Dem side in the case of Biden dropping out for some reason. If he did it prior to the convention then the convention would simply become especially interesting and energetic- just about anyone could be selected by the delegates and super delegates. If Biden dropped out after the convention then the DNC would select someone and I don’t think that someone would be likely to be a kook or an incompetent. As David notes, the parties have long, deep, histories of selecting candidates outside the primary process. A black swan event like this would just force them back to an older method briefly. The Dems are a hoary old institution but they are sane, I have little doubt they could manage a replacement if they needed to.Report

  4. Marchmaine
    Ignored
    says:

    What’s the scenario of a candidate dies after the convention, but before election? Let’s say Sept 30th? Does it change if it’s Dec 15?

    Does every state have the same process for changing a declared candidate prior to the election date? I seem to recall that different states have different requirements for ballot access and changes?

    Might be weird if Oregon has Biden locked in but NY is able to substitute, say, Newsom or Harris?

    Which is just to say that either candidate would do us all a big favor if they’d die before the convention.Report

    • Marchmaine in reply to Marchmaine
      Ignored
      says:

      edit: Not Dec 15th… that would be simple succession… meant to say Oct15.Report

      • North in reply to Marchmaine
        Ignored
        says:

        I imagine that the Dems would select a replacement (most likely Harris in this scenario) and votes for Biden would seamlessly transition to the replacement.Report

        • Marchmaine in reply to North
          Ignored
          says:

          Post Convention? My question is about State level federal ballots/votes… I suspect the votes *wouldn’t* do that if a candidate dies between early election and election day… the Party doesn’t own the votes once they’ve been cast (I don’t think). And each state has or doesn’t have rules on what happens to those votes or when a party can change a candidate on the ballot.Report

          • North in reply to Marchmaine
            Ignored
            says:

            Interestingly, the American system of “Electors” that pretty much everyone decries as a muddle is quite resilient in the face of a scenario like what you’re talking about*.

            Obviously the party suffering the loss post convention would very quickly select a new candidate. I’m sure state apparatus’ would then try and adjust their ballots to match the new names but let’s, for the sake of argument, say that there’s not enough time. In that case my initial supposition appears to be correct but not for the reasons I originally thought.

            What literally happens after a presidential election is that the popular vote in each state elects the states electors who then form the electoral college, which, in turn, elects the president and vice-president of the United States.

            No Constitutional provision or federal law requires electors to vote in accordance with the popular vote in their states, but the electors are made eligible to vote by being on the slate provided by the party that won the state’s popular vote and some states have laws requiring them to adhere to the popular vote outcome in their state.

            The rub of this, though, is that these electors have perfectly functional brains and are selected by their party which means that they will have absolutely no difficulty recognizing that votes for the dead candidate should be applied to the living replacement candidate. They would, then, dutifully vote appropriately in the electoral college, the dead candidates votes support to their replacement, and off it goes to Congress for counting and certification. Badda bing, badda boom.

            If this happened on the Dems side I would expect that the party apparatus would already have selected tolerably reliable electors to represent the party in each state it wins and then the ultimate living nominee gets their votes.

            If it happened on this GOP we have right now’s side… ehh… I have.. less… confidence. But I think the bigger question would be if this GOP would be able to manage selecting a replacement candidate if Trump keeled over dead in time. A clusterfish could be entirely possible I suppose. But I don’t think the GOP’s electors would matter in that scenario because presumably that ineptitude would utterly kill them in the election.

            This link, I think, would answer most of your questions:
            https://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/20431

            *I am, note, not an electoral or constitutional scholar or lawyer.Report

            • Marchmaine in reply to North
              Ignored
              says:

              Thanks, the EC is a great point to bring up, so I did a little poking around as it jogged my memory about ‘faithless electors’ and questions about the ‘true autonomy’ of the EC, which has slowly been circumscribed over the years.

              “WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court ruled unanimously Monday [2020] that states can require presidential electors to back their states’ popular vote winner in the Electoral College.

              The ruling, just under four months before the 2020 election, leaves in place laws in 32 states and the District of Columbia that bind electors to vote for the popular-vote winner, and electors almost always do so anyway.”

              In the realm of theory… if 32 states require that the Dead Guy receive their EC votes (whomever that might be) while 28 states take the ‘prudential view’ of electing a Party’s preferred candidate rather than the vote getter… we might have votes cast for 3 candidates — most likely giving the election to the non-dead candidate. In theory.

              Probably the best thing to do would be elect the dead guy, then VP succeeds, then appoints new VP, then… profit?

              https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/scotus-rules-presidential-electors-must-back-their-states-popular-vote-winner

              [edit]
              p.s. I’d assume there’s some sort of provision in at least one state’s Fed Election laws for this sort of thing… but ironically, if each state has a different process to manage this scenario, it might make things ‘worse’ in terms of getting the guy with the most EC votes elected.Report

  5. Saul Degraw
    Ignored
    says:

    Chaos and pandemoniumReport

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