231 BPM

Will Truman

Will Truman is the Editor-in-Chief of Ordinary Times. He is also on Twitter.

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39 Responses

  1. InMD
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    For all the ink spilled over who pays for healthcare the fundamental issues with the system are far less private versus public and far more about the arbitrary and unpredictable gaps.Report

    • LeeEsq in reply to InMD
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      A private system is going to be more likely to have these arbitrary and unpredictable gaps. The only way to really prevent them is by the government doing a slap down of some sort and telling them to get it out.Report

      • Kristin Devine in reply to LeeEsq
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        You’re absolutely wrong. About half my clients are in the UK, Canada, and Europe, and they have an equally frustrating (if not more so), albeit slightly different, set of frustrations and concerns with their health care than we do in America. People in single payer countries have just as many issues with poor care and delays of treatment, it just comes in a different package than it does here in the US.Report

        • Philip H in reply to Kristin Devine
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          So what’s your proposed solution?Report

        • Burt Likko in reply to Kristin Devine
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          I believe this with zero difficulty, it seems so intuitively obvious as to be inevitable. A switch to single payer is exchanging one set of headaches, frustrations, failures, and stresses for a different set of headaches, frustrations, failures, and stresses. As would any other system someone might care to proffer.

          The question is whether one system offers marginally less headaches, frustrations, failures, and stresses. And picking between two bad systems to identify which is less bad is not something people generally do very well.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to InMD
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      More transparency (and therefore more predictability) would be nice but we’re in a place where knowing that the close hospital is the expensive one and the cheap one is across town is going to leave us with the same problem.Report

      • InMD in reply to Jaybird
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        To me it’s more an issue of the whole ‘in-network’ considerstion. If you’re insured the lack of pre-emptive haggling between the payer and the provider on what they pay for a procedure shouldn’t fall on the individual.Report

  2. Alysia Ames
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    What a crazy week for you! I am so glad you are ok!Report

  3. fillyjonk
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    the whole log-in to apps to do anything is evil when it’s something this urgent. There has to be a way to do it better. I usually wind up cursing out the on-campus apps for things like requesting my textbooks for next semester and the like (seriously they expect me to *remember* a unique password with at least eight characters and an upper case letter, a lower case letter, a number, and a “special character” when I only use the app once every four months?)

    But in this case, yeah: could be a case of life or death. I’m glad you’re OK but I think every medical provider involved needs to feel shame about how much they delayed someone getting treatment because of stupid apps.

    Oh, and congratulations on the new baby!Report

    • Greg In Ak in reply to fillyjonk
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      Or less importantly, but very irritating, every dinkwad tourist town has their own parking app to DL when you just want to get lunch and walk around for an hour. Sorry, need to DL Blark!Report

    • Michael Cain in reply to fillyjonk
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      As I’ve said for decades now, “To err is human; to really screw things up requires software.”Report

    • Marchmaine in reply to fillyjonk
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      Most apps accepting Biological passwords has been a big help.

      However, I’ve been burned by apps (usually Travel after the long Covid Hiatus) that don’t get used all the time then they update and pretend that their security protocols can’t possibly transfer your old biologic password until you log-in manually and re-set your bio password. Usually this happens with a line behind you.

      Basically, for an app you rarely use, like healthcare app… the bio-password is reset so often as not to provide the longterm value of having a bio-password.Report

      • fillyjonk in reply to Marchmaine
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        Do you mean like fingerprints? My new laptop has a fingerprint sensor to log in and at least half the time I have to default to the (mercifully: short, numeric, easily-remembered-by-me PIN) because “We don’t recognize your fingerprint, try another finger”

        (“Fool, I am using the finger I set up the sensor with!”)Report

        • Jaybird in reply to fillyjonk
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          Heard a horror story about one of the local military bases. They had retinal scanners. As it turns out, the veins in the back of your eye change under a handful of circumstances and one of those circumstances is somewhat common: Pregnancy. Like, even *EARLY* pregnancy when one might only be vaguely suspicious that something was going on.

          This means that there were a handful of women caught in the man-trap trying to go to work and not being able to get through… and everybody in the security office knew exactly what was up whenever Staff Sergeant Whomever didn’t get through the gate.

          Well, it happened to a Colonel. They got rid of the scanners.Report

        • Michael Cain in reply to fillyjonk
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          Given that all contemporary phones and laptop computers come with built-in cameras, I’m surprised they haven’t figured out a way to use iris recognition.Report

  4. Greg In Ak
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    Glad you are fine. At least you’ll be able to get plenty of rest, well when the baby is chill.

    This kind of issue was always there and noted by health reformer types. Emer health is not meant to be a consumer product. Most important health care works really badly as a consumer product.

    “Skin in the game”. Allow me to nuke that phrase from orbit. You got skin, you’re in the game. Money, payment??? F that. You’re health and life means you have all the possible skin possible regardless of the payment deal.Report

  5. Kristin Devine
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    First thing – hugest congrats and I’m so thankful you’re ok.

    Was it A-fib or SVT?? Did they say? Either way, don’t fear the “fry”, my dad (for a-fib) and a close friend of my husband’s (for SVT) had it done and it was a godsend for them. Very easy procedure and 100% fixed.

    Aside from my concern for your health and wellbeing, on a personal level, it is moderately bizarre to read the medical reaction to your story. I have SVT and my heart was regularly going over 200 BPM. This happened for years. I spent huge amounts of money on doctors and tests, but no one believed me that it was happening. They could never see it happen on their machines, and when I tried to describe my symptoms they brushed me off. “Young women don’t have heart problems, anxiety, too much coffee,” etc etc etc. When I finally did capture the 200+ beats on the heart monitor a decade after attempting to get treatment, they didn’t call an ambulance, didn’t have me rush to the hospital, none of it. No concern about blood clots whatsoever. I wasn’t even offered medication until five later, and I had to fight for that (with another massive expense and months of time on testing beforehand). One pill a day has all but cured me. It was life changing, and I think back on 15 years of heart skipping, dizziness, SVT events, years of my youth wasted as an invalid terrified I’d die at any moment and everyone around me treating me like a hypochondriac for a problem that was absolutely real, and it makes me sick. My doctors still to this day don’t believe that I was having heart-related chest pains, even though the chest pains immediately resolved with medication. I just do not understand why some people are treated with alacrity and others just get a shrug. I would call it sexism but I’ve seen it happen to a lot of men, too.

    The reason I bring all that up is that this was all done in-network, with plenty of time to arrange appointments with the proper doctors. While I agree the “out of network” crap is appalling and absolutely evil, the truth is that even in-network treatment isn’t cheap or fast, and patients must fight tooth and nail for basic care and experience delays that are oftentimes fatal. My mother in law, who had excellent insurance at all in-network facilities, died in January from a treatable case of diverticulitis after having been put off by her doctor who told her she just had a UTI. Her insurance covered everything, we didn’t even have to pay a co-pay, but what good was it? The paid-for doctor still caused delays in treatment that cost her her life.

    In vs. out of network is just the tip of a massive iceberg. Medicine needs reform badly and unless that happens FIRST, single payer would simply congeal all these pathologies into a system that would then be basically above reform.Report

    • Philip H in reply to Kristin Devine
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      One of my daughters had SVT diagnosed as a kid; had the “burn” at 13 and gets checked annually to see if it’s back. Its definitely a good treatment.

      As to your case Kristin – what you are describing is almost classic sexism in medical care. this is a well documented problem that exists independent of payer. And its a problem that needs to be squashed sooner rather then later.Report

    • Will Truman in reply to Kristin Devine
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      AFIB. There was also a heart murmur

      The overarching issue is the unpredictability of expenses. Both “Will they pay for the procedure that was done” and “Will they pay the particular provider that did it” are manifestations of this issue, both feeding into “How much will it cost if they don’t?”

      I’ve spoken up on the former before – mostly on Twitter – but in general I find it a harder shell to crack. Every solution is seems either vague and straightforward that it’s hard to really oppose (like “make pre-authorization more efficient!”), or clean and simple and easy but not workable (“If a doctor says it’s necessary then insurance should pay for it end of story!”)

      The network stuff, though, has multiple solutions compatible with many different health care models.

      As far as my treatment goes, I would guess it has a lot to do with the fact that I rolled up there with acute and undeniable symptoms. It wasn’t just that my BMI got that high but that it wouldn’t go below 190 (at first). With all that, dismissing me the way you were dismissed would have opened them up to lawsuits. My impression of the urgent care clinic in particular is that they were 100% in avoiding lawsuit mode. Clancy said the only unusual part of my care was that I was put in the ICU and kept there when in most hospitals there would have been some sort of middle tier of care and they would have moved me to the main floor sooner (I think the main reason I wasn’t was inertia.)

      FWIW, I would bet on sexism as being a factor for the treatment you got. It seems to be a huge issue with chronic illness in particular, which is harder than acute incidents like mine at baseline but also probably susceptible to all sorts of conscious and subconscious stereotypes. I’m really sorry you had to go through that.Report

  6. Marchmaine
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    says:

    For 100 in Biological Beats:

    231 BPM

    “What would be my BPM if Lady Marchmaine told me we were expecting our 7th, Alex”

    Glad you’re feeling better, and I’m sure you young folk can easily handle your new little baby… congrats.Report

  7. Burt Likko
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    says:

    Will I’m immensely happy to hear you came out of that okay and that Daughter #2 is healthy and with her whole family. Including her dad.Report

  8. PD Shaw
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    I don’t think single-payer would necessarily fix this. All healthcare systems have some boundaries surrounding what it considers to be essential medical care, and those that are adjacent (mental health, midwifery, and nursing care come to mind). I’m skeptical that even if the U.S. became a single-payer system that “transport” would suddenly come within essential medical care (it’s currently not at the national level). It could, but a reason it wouldn’t is that it would reduce the cost of transition.

    Oh yeah, good to hear you survived the U.S. healthcare system.Report

    • Trumwill in reply to PD Shaw
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      it’s not really about ambulances specifically.

      The thing that single payer would address would be the degree of price opacity, uncertainty, and inconsistency that comes with networks (and providers so commonly paid by insurance that they can’t cite a price). That is a feature of our specific system.

      In the case of ambulances in particular I think if it’s not covered it becomes a city-county service with consistent (albeit not inexpensive) pricing and that could be factored in instead of “Maybe the trip to the hospital will be free or maybe it will cost more than surgery.” — but again this isn’t really about ambulances.

      (I’m not saying there would be no variation – though regulation could do a lot there – but we’ve been on Medicaid and we’ve paid cash and we’ve been on insurance and the third is qualitatively different than the other two.

      Single Payer would either pay for it or if not normalize pricing. A straight cash/market system would do the same with a modest amount of regulation.Report

      • Michael Cain in reply to Trumwill
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        If I recall the Swiss system correctly — and it’s been years so they may have changed it — the care providers as a group negotiate rates with the insurance companies as a group. The government resolves things the two groups can’t reach agreement about. In-network vs out-of-network is not something health care clients have to worry about.Report

      • PD Shaw in reply to Trumwill
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        says:

        I’m kind of tuned into ambulance policy now. Where I live two emergency workers were charged with first degree murder for how they strapped the patient to a gurney. It seems like they were burnt-out and disgruntled about having to work another weekend night shift, and a lot of people are blaming the profit-motive of private ambulance services for staff shortages. But it turns out that it would be prohibitively expensive for the city to operate such a service without imposing similar cost controls that are blamed for the murder. It looks like we are moving towards having fire fighters who are trained as EMTs or paramedics riding inside when they are on the scene and there is a need.

        From what I’ve read, transport is simply treated different and there is no particular reason to believe a new system would necessarily include it. In Canada, ambulance services are provided by province health care plans, but are generally not portable outside one’s home province/ territory.Report

        • Will Truman in reply to PD Shaw
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          Fire/EMT is exactly what I had in mind when I talked about it being run by cities/counties. Generally in Texas, if you just want to fight fires you become a volunteer fireman and if you want to be a professional firefighter you become an EMT.Report

        • DensityDuck in reply to PD Shaw
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          Our town has some kind of weird beef between administrators that has resulted in the fire department being the first ones who will be dispatched to a 911 call, but they aren’t permitted to render medical assistance beyond immediate trauma response, so they have to call the ambulance service as a separate dispatch…Report

          • Philip H in reply to DensityDuck
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            Our town of around 8500 sends everyone. The police and Fire Department are often arriving together – the county ambulance contractor arrives later. Most of our trucks have an EMT or EMT Advanced. I think there is also a single paramedic per shift. But the town has zero transport capability so BLS or ALS you go by contract ambulance.Report

      • PD Shaw in reply to Trumwill
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        I have no problem untangling the network limitation. We lost all of our primary care and specialist doctors a couple of years ago because our insurer (Blue Cross/Blue Shield) determined that the costs at the largest physician group in the area were too high and they couldn’t read an agreement. The local hospital systems weren’t capable of meeting the new demand, but we slowly established new physician relations for the four of us. I think the physician group had a nicer set-up and was qualitatively different, but I now suspect that I was fed to a specialist for biannual check-ups that could have been performed by my GP. I wish I had the option of not changing and paying more out-of-pocket. In Canada, they apparently have private insurance for additional medical services that take place in another province. I wonder how much that would cost in the U.S.?Report

  9. Steve Casburn
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    says:

    Note…to…self…: “Offering…to…contribute…to…cup…of…coffee…fund…for…Dev…Cat…counter-productive…in…some…circumstances…”

    (Glad you’re recovering and congratulations on being a father again!)Report

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