Of Course Sidney Powell Was Extorted, That’s How It Works.

Em Carpenter

Em was one of those argumentative children who was sarcastically encouraged to become a lawyer, so she did. She is a proud life-long West Virginian, and, paradoxically, a liberal. In addition to writing about society, politics and culture, she enjoys cooking, podcasts, reading, and pretending to be a runner. She will correct your grammar. You can find her on Twitter.

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23 Responses

  1. Damon
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    says:

    Let us not forget that prosecutors will pile on charges that have a range of probability of conviction. That way they can “negotiate” all those away “iffy” ones during bargaining. It looks like the defendant is getting a deal from the defendant’s perspective. It doesn’t matter if they think the prosecution can actually get a guilty verdict on some of the charges, they add them anyway, so the defense has to consider that they COULD win.

    Now, I’m a big don’t do crimes if you can’t pay the piper, but that seems a bit underhanded.Report

    • Em Carpenter in reply to Damon
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      says:

      You’re correct. But of course, it’s the norm and not Powell being treated worse than your average defendant.Report

    • Dark Matter in reply to Damon
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      says:

      In the context of being part of a team trying to overthrow the government, this looks more like a sweetheart deal than a pile on.Report

      • InMD in reply to Dark Matter
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        says:

        I hate to use the word ‘privilege’ given how loaded it is, and normally find its deployment to be pretty annoying and not really merited, but there does seem to be an ingrained belief among Trump and supporters of Trump that they are somehow above getting in trouble for conduct that…. well that one would think most people understand is likely to get them in trouble.Report

        • Dark Matter in reply to InMD
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          says:

          We’re in “cult leader” territory.

          Normally with religion, the public claims to really believe are virtue signaling and don’t reflect things you really do. So you pray for health for your sick child but you don’t actually trust that god will fix them.

          However there can be a core of believers who will do exactly that.

          With Trump, his claims were a lot less magical so he needed less to get people to do stuff. Since the election was really stolen you can do things to fix it because justice is on your side and if there are any technical legal problems they’ll be washed out in the end.

          Life is not really an action movie nor does it have grand causes but lots of people want that.Report

      • Damon in reply to Dark Matter
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        says:

        Yeah, I wasn’t addressing the defendant’s specific case, more of how prosecutors deal with defendants in general.Report

  2. InMD
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    says:

    One of the more interesting things for me over the last couple of years has been witnessing the shock of those sympathetic to Trump when learning about how the criminal justice system actually works. Being the ‘lawyer in the family’ and one who did a stint in criminal defense at that, I have had to go to great lengths to explain that all of this is pretty normal. That includes Powell’s good deal, given that she will probably be a helpful witness for convicting the primary target of the prosecution. Of course she should know that she will have to live up to the bargain to get the benefit of it.

    Anyway if people want to see extortion they should look into what happens with those caught up in federal drug task force investigations. Lord knows I picked up a few war stories about that, even in my brief time practicing in the relevant area.Report

  3. DensityDuck
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    says:

    yikes.

    broke: “law-enforcement people use the threat of long prison sentences as a tool to extract guilty please and avoid the bother of creating an actual criminal case against accused persons, and the legal system supports them in this by enacting punitive mandatory-minimum laws and Procrustean sentencing requirements, and all of this is extremely unethical and exploitative”

    woke: “it’s not extortion, it’s negotiation and everyone involved understands quite well what’s going on, and obviously the person was guilty as hell and she’s just grabbing at any chance to keep her ass from going into the blades, and this is all okay because TRUCK FUMP.”Report

    • Kazzy in reply to DensityDuck
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      says:

      Either it’s extortion or it’s not. It can’t be extortion when applied to Group X and not when applied to Group Y.Report

    • InMD in reply to DensityDuck
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      says:

      If conservatives want to start making the case for sentencing reform I think a lot of people with concerns about the status quo of the criminal justice system would see that as a positive thing. However the laws on the books and the approach to prosecution has really been a bipartisan effort over many decades. It’s sort of silly and not particularly credible to start squealing about it and calling hypocrisy only when one’s favored politician gets caught up in it.Report

      • Philip H in reply to InMD
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        says:

        It is, however, entirely consistent with conservatives squealing about societal norms – and legal restraints – they don’t like. The only thing that would have been more on point would have been if she were named Karen.Report

    • DensityDuck in reply to DensityDuck
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      says:

      wow that woulda landed a lot better if I hadn’t mis-keyed “pleas”Report

    • DavidTC in reply to DensityDuck
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      says:

      As someone who has repeatedly criticized the overuse of plea deals, while I can’t speak for others, I feel I should point out that almost the entirety of _my_ objections to those to not apply to Sidney Powell:

      First, she was able to afford bail. Plenty of defendants have to take plea deals simply because the system threatens to keep them imprisoned near indefinitely as trials drag out. Which, in addition to ‘punishment without being found guilty’, often threaten to ruin their life…they will lose their job, not be able to pay rent, get evicted, lose all their belongings, etc. (As many people here know, I object to bail at all. Either someone can be trusted to return to court, or they cannot.)

      Second, she had actual legal representation. Plenty of defendants have to take plea deals despite being innocent because they have public defenders that are only able to devote approximately 15 minutes to their case, and the defendant has essentially no ability to do anything that would help prove their side of the case or call doubt on the prosecution’s.

      So my problem is not ‘plea deals’, it is ‘plea deals that happen because of one or both of those things’. Those two things are the cause of 99.999% of plea deals, and are unethical pressure that has no justification under the concept of justice or the constitution.

      Can there be other problems even if neither of those are true? Sure. As long as we have a system that allows people to admit they are guilt in exchange for less punishment, people are going to feel some level of pressure to take a plea deal _even if they are innocent_, if they feel their case looks bad.

      But what’s the alternative there? We don’t let people admit they are guilty? That’s obviously nonsense. We let them admit they are guilty but they do it in court so are hit them with the same penalties? Well…except we wouldn’t, because surely that would be taken into account in sentencing, so now all we’ve done is swapped out ‘a specific deal and punishment’ for ‘throwing yourselves on the mercy of the court’ and hope they don’t dislike you. Neither of these seem very plausible…so plea deals will always exist.

      What we need to do is a system where _innocent_ people believe that they will walk out the courtroom doors without their lives ruined, and we really, really do not have that for people who cannot afford lawyers or bail. (And we don’t have it the other direction, either, as guilty-as-hell rich people seem to be convinced they’ll get away with everything, and usually are right.)

      Meanwhile, Sidney Powell’s case looks really bad and might ruin her life, so she signed a plea deal. But it didn’t look bad because of some bad public defender, or will ruin her life because she’s locked up in prison for years before it comes to trial. It looks bad because…it seems she’s done the things that she is being accused of, and those things appear to be pretty serious crimes.Report

      • DavidTC in reply to DavidTC
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        says:

        Oh, and I didn’t mention the ‘piling on charges’ thing specifically, but just in case someone misses it: That sort of thing goes away with good lawyers.

        I’m sure Powell’s lawyers sat down with her and explained to her in detail which parts of this were plausible for the government to prove, and which parts would probably get dropped during trial. Remember, this was the day before the trial, her defense team already knew all evidence that was going to produced during the trial. I’m sure there was stuff they were able to say ‘This requires proving all of X, Y, and Z, and the government doesn’t seem to have any evidence towards Y at all. It’s just there to scare you.’

        Is it underhanded to inflate charges like that? Sure. But it doesn’t really matter if you have competent representation. It’s really only there to cow plea deals out of people who _don’t_.

        I mean, I’m all for stopping that if someone can think of a way to, I’m sorta of the opinion that anyone who brings charges against someone and then drops them should have to explain, in writing to a judge, why exactly they were dropping them, what new evidence showed up, but…I’m a favor of a lot of ‘You have to write stuff down’ in the justice system that no one seems in care about.Report

    • Jesse in reply to DensityDuck
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      says:

      Traitors deserve worse than the white glove treatment Powell is being given.Report

    • Em Carpenter in reply to DensityDuck
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      says:

      Is the “woke” section supposed to be a summation of what I said? Because if so, you missed my point entirely.Report

      • CJCoIucci in reply to Em Carpenter
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        says:

        You expected different?Report

      • DavidTC in reply to Em Carpenter
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        says:

        Actually, I think it’s a summary of things _I_ have said here.Report

      • DensityDuck in reply to Em Carpenter
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        says:

        “if so, you missed my point entirely.”

        No, I don’t think I missed your point at all. You’re making the same point as Eric Holder, that our methods are Clean and our cause is Just and our results are Acceptable.

        I do think that people might have expected you to not carry quite so much water for the Carceral State, maybe a few more caveats, examples of how plea deals are rotten and exploitative, a little less chortling at the accused party writhing like an earthworm on the cruelly-barbed fish-hook of Justice, but y’know, Trump and all that, entirely understandable.Report

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