No, I Will Not Try That or Even Go to Your Small Town

Christopher Bradley

Christopher is a lawyer from NEPA, aka, Pennsultucky, He is an avid baseball fan, audiophile, and dog owner. He spends the majority of his free time with his wife and daughters, reading, listening to music, watching baseball (except the Yankees) and writing.

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57 Responses

  1. Pinky says:

    OK, I guess I’ll start.

    Aldean’s song isn’t about bigotry, and you can tell it isn’t about bigotry by the fact that it’s not about bigotry. If that seems like an unusual way to test if something is bigoted, you’d be right: these days it’s so rare that it doesn’t even cross people’s minds.

    A friend of mine has a gun from his grandfather. It’s not registered anywhere, and good for him. I wish my grandfather had had a gun. If he did, his family might not have been killed by the kind of people who want you to register your guns.

    As I documented in David Thornton’s comments section, the rate of violent crime overall and every violent crime within that statistic is higher in metro areas than non-metro areas.

    That doesn’t mean that every small town is good though. A small commuter town has no bonds, whereas a part of a big city can have a “small-town” feel. It’s about neighborhoods. A good neighborhood like a good family just makes life a little easier.Report

    • Pat in reply to Pinky says:

      Brandon rather succinctly critiqued your Simpson’s Pardox level of analysis of crime ratesReport

      • Pinky in reply to Pat says:

        Brandon critiqued David’s analysis. I’m not sure Simpson’s Paradox is the right label for what Brandon did, but he described how an increased number of data points leads to the potential of more outliers. One way to avoid that is what I did, by looking at all MSA’s versus all non-MSA’s.Report

      • Brandon Berg in reply to Pat says:

        That’s not how I remember it. I was explaining how Pinky’s observation that non-MSA areas have lower crime rates than MSA areas can be reconciled with the fact that there are more small cities than large cities among the highest-crime areas. Broadly speaking, I think Pinky was more correct.Report

    • Author in reply to Pinky says:

      I see that you’re a good little doggy when it comes to dog whistles.Report

      • Pinky in reply to Author says:

        Oh, wait a second, the icon that “Author” is using matches the one used by the author of the original piece. I’d assumed that this comment was from one of our fly-by-night cranks, but if this is from the article’s author, well, that’s just humiliating for him. All those words in the article wasted. Especially after the “try that in a comments section” closer, to run away from conversation, it’s just embarrassing.Report

        • I’m not here to converse with bigots, whether they be closeted or not. I knew I’d have some smarta** commenting with “the song is not bigotry” or “there’s no racism here” nonsense–so of course I see no need to engage, but to call you what you are. I see a lot of that from the real cranks on this website, so again, I call it what it is and move on. I don’t converse with bigots or those that defend obvious bigotry.

          PS: no one of any consequence wants to take or register your guns, don’t be a nitwit.Report

      • Brandon Berg in reply to Author says:

        Trashy.Report

    • Chip Daniels in reply to Pinky says:

      Big cities are just a lot of little neighborhoods put together.

      In particular, within a big metro, people tend to collect together into groups which have very different crime rates, even when they live in close proximity.

      This is why I live in a neighborhood (downtown Los Angeles, Skid Row Adjacent) so safe we don’t even lock our doors and feel perfectly safe walking the dogs any time of night.

      Meanwhile, people across the street are involved in groups where violence is common. Other people in small towns live that way too, involved in criminal gangs and dysfunctional families.

      There isn’t anything magical about the air or water in small towns or cites which cause people to behave differently. Within each area, there are functional and dysfunctional communities.Report

  2. Damon says:

    Let me tell you about the small town I grew up in.

    7K people. Main minorities were Native Americans and Mormons. Farms and Ranches, some industry. I like to shock people in the big city nowadays that I grew up in an area where the fences had signs that said “trespassers will be shot” and it was meant. You didn’t go into other people’s without and invite. Doors were left unlocked, at least those of the folks I knew. Were not that many cops, hardly ever saw them. People knew you even if you didn’t know them. Some guy called the house at midnight and informed my mom that our dog was at his house “on the prowl” for lady dogs and to come and get him.

    Racism/sexism/etc? Never heard of any, never experienced any. Not even against the native Americans. I had a friend who was NA and he defended me when someone was harassing me in the bathroom. EVERYBODY talked so that stuff would get around fast.

    Main problems seemed to be underage drinking (which some parents actively encouraged) and drunk driving, as it was rural and if you crashed in a side canyon, you might not be found for days. Now that the industry has left that town, most folks moved away. It’s a meth hole from what I hear.Report

  3. CJColucci says:

    For reasons I won’t get into, I watched North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum’s campaign kickoff ad. At one point, he shows a bunch of folks sitting around talking something out and proclaims that, in contrast to the noise and bitterness elsewhere, here people talk to each other and respect each other. I looked again at the bunch of folks talking. Like almost everyone else in the ad, it was about the most homogeneous bunch of folks you could imagine. Of course they can all talk to each other and respect one another; it’s as easy as talking to yourself.
    Anyone who fits in will get along fine, and usually won’t have a clue about how it is for anyone else.Report

  4. Burt Likko says:

    I really like the proffer of Gary Clark Jr.’s song here as a counterpoint to the discourse over Aldean’s magnum opus. There are three reasons for that opinion. First, Clark’s song is based on his own personal experience–I very much hope Aldean and his songwriters cannot say the same. Second, Clark offers a challenge to the listener on a moral level rather than a physical one, which may leave some feeling too uncomfortable to engage, and if you’re among that number you will likely continue to insist that Clark is simply making up things that aren’t real (anymore? will you concede even that much?) to claim victimhood. Third, Clark isn’t playing the victim, he’s asserting his status as a peer of his neighbors, and giving vent to anger and frustration that they don’t afford him the respect they freely give one another.

    If the message seems delivered in a heavy-handed way, that may well be because Clark feels that milder versions of that statement have gone unheard, or perhaps ignored. Aldean’s song is not particularly subtle, either.

    I’ll add that Clark wrote his own song, that the song has more musical merit than Aldean’s, and Clark’s guitar chops are top notch. I don’t hate country music although I much prefer blues and rock, and when I do listen to country I find I prefer it stripped-down and aimed at musical roots (note the coda of Clark’s song). But these are more matters of artistic taste rather than of message, and message is what the discourse is about.

    If the song doesn’t adequately explain Clark’s point, the video does a great job of supporting it. Gee, why doesn’t Gary feel welcome in this lovely small town? If you can’t hear it in the song, maybe you can see it in the video.

    If, that is, you will use your ears and eyes at all, which is a big part of the challenge raised by this discourse.Report

  5. As an addendum to this, which happened yesterday into today, Mr. Aldean, or rather the crisis PR people for his label have cut some footage from BLM protests from the video. Naturally his fans, aka the racist morons that support this poor excuse for a song, are big mad: https://www.pennlive.com/news/2023/07/jason-aldean-cut-black-lives-matter-protest-scene-from-try-that-in-a-small-town-video-heres-why.htmlReport

    • CJColucci in reply to Christopher Bradley says:

      Snowflakes.Report

      • Brandon Berg in reply to CJColucci says:

        I keep seeing lefties playing this childish “I know you are but what am I?” game with “snowflake,” and it just doesn’t work, because it’s done with total disregard for facts on the ground and the actual semantic content of “snowflake.”

        The term “snowflake” denotes fragility, which is a totally appropriate criticism of leftists who claim that they are being harmed or made to feel unsafe by people expressing ideas with which they disagree. Or the people who claimed that they were afraid to walk the streets because of a handful of police shootings (literally single digits per year) which were not clearly justifiable with the benefit of hindsight. Weaponized fragility is a major part of the woke playbook, and it’s totally appropriate to call them on it.

        Nobody quoted in the linked article is doing this, or anything like it. They’re saying that caving to the left was cowardly, and that they lost respect for Aldean because of it. Maybe this was stupid. Maybe the criticism was totally legitimate and the decision to edit out the footage was reasonable. I don’t care enough to dig into the details and find out what footage was removed and what the context for that footage was, all of which would be necessary to form an informed opinion here. But I do know that you’re using the word “snowflake” as a fully general counterargument and not in a manner consistent with its actual meaning and the facts in evidence. You might as well be saying, “My snowflake landlord wants me to pay rent on time.” It’s just total nonsense.Report

        • Pinky in reply to Brandon Berg says:

          Considering this whole thing was people complaining about pictures in a video, the word fits fine. I mean, “racist morons that support this poor excuse for a song”!Report

        • Brandon Berg in reply to Brandon Berg says:

          An apolitical digression on “snowflake”: I first remember seeing it used as an insult in the form “special snowflake” on video game forums circa 2010. When people were complaining about the difficulty of optional content that yielded desirable virtual rewards for successful completion, they were accused of wanting to get the rewards just for being “special snowflakes,” i.e. like a sort of participation trophy that kids get because everyone is special and unique, like snowflakes.

          I’m not entirely sure how it went from that to denoting fragility. One theory I have is that it came by association to refer to those who couldn’t deal with difficult tasks, and thence fragility. Alternatively it could have arisen independently from the fact that snowflakes actually are pretty fragile. But my money’s on the first.Report

        • CJColucci in reply to Brandon Berg says:

          Snowflake.Report

    • From the linked article (boldface added):

      Aldean has repeatedly denied that the song was racist or “pro lynching,” and during a concert over the weekend he fired back at the critics.
      “I love our country,” he said. “I want to see it restored to what it once was before all of this (expletive) started happening to us. I love my country, I love my family and I will do anything to protect that, I can tell you that right now.”
      The crowd ate it up and broke into a “USA” chant.

      To which I have to ask (referencing the bolded portion of Aldean’s comment): “What exactly is the (expletive) that started happening to us that you’re upset about?” I’m willing to bet that Aldean would pause a good long moment to choose his words very carefully if he were put on the spot to answer that question.

      Whatever that (expletive) is Aldean was talking about, can we legitimately and fairly separate said (expletive) from race?Report

      • Pinky in reply to Burt Likko says:

        His answer might be people sucker-punching somebody on the sidewalk, carjacking an old lady at a red light, pulling a gun on the owner of a liquor store, cussing out a cop, spitting in his face, stomping on the flag, and lighting it up. Are any of those things related to race?Report

        • Philip H in reply to Pinky says:

          His answer might be people sucker-punching somebody on the sidewalk, Charlottesville, VA definitely had a racial component to this behavior, as it was done (and prosecuted) by white supremicists.

          carjacking an old lady at a red light, Sadly a racial reference as most car jackers are young black men

          pulling a gun on the owner of a liquor store, done by as many white people as black people

          cussing out a cop, spitting in his face, January 6th comes to mind … perpetuated by white people

          stomping on the flag, and lighting it up. fine when done by conservative whites, but if done by BLM or the Nation of Islam generally frowned upon publicly

          Are any of those things related to race?

          Seems to me if that’s what he was after he could have written or sung a song on those themes in a way that calls out everyone . . . but that’s not what he did. We used imagery from BLM protests and filmed on a courthouse square where a notorious lynching occurred.Report

          • Pinky in reply to Philip H says:

            Black people have worn itsy-bitsy teeny-weeny yellow polka dot bikinis, but it doesn’t mean the song was about them.Report

          • Dark Matter in reply to Philip H says:

            If race is related to everything then it’s related to nothing.Report

            • Chip Daniels in reply to Dark Matter says:

              No, that’s just factually untrue.

              We know that there have been many, many societies where your ethnic/ racial membership was a decisive factor in virtually everything in your life, from what schools you went to to what neighborhood you lived in, to what jobs you were offered, or how the system treated you in every single detail.Report

              • One such society was the United States of America, in particular the southeastern United States where the Aldean song is depicted in its video. We remember this most prominently during an era known as “Jim Crow,” which took its name from a racially-stereotyped entertainment, but the era that came before that, the era of slavery, was even worse. And the laws and norms of that racial segregation were enforced with violence, not unlike the way Aldean threatens to enforce the social norms he associates with his [Southeastern American] small town.Report

              • Dark Matter in reply to Chip Daniels says:

                In societies like that, you can point to the caste system. In the modern US you point to unconscious biases, or situations that haven’t existed for generations.

                If God is responsible for every leaf that falls and proof of him is in every face in the clouds, then there’s no way to get rid of it and it doesn’t do anything.Report

              • Philip H in reply to Dark Matter says:

                In societies like that, you can point to the caste system. In the modern US you point to unconscious biases, or situations that haven’t existed for generations.

                We have both systemic racism and systemic classism alive and well in the US. That you choose to ignore the evidence is really on you.Report

              • Dark Matter in reply to Philip H says:

                IMHO the best explanation for the evidence is:

                We have a culture of poverty that is both a cause and a result of poverty. It’s self sustaining like all cultures.

                Sometimes I shorten that to “dysfunctional cultural habits”. What to do about this is unclear.

                If you want to argue for “systemic racism” then your evidence needs to be something other than inequality and/or things which haven’t existed for generations.

                Ideally you’d point to current gov policy.Report

        • Burt Likko in reply to Pinky says:

          Yes, as those kinds of crimes are associated in popular imagination with the kind of behavior black people, particularly young black men in cities, engage in but white people typically don’t get associated with. You may recall a phenomenon called “wilding” associated with young black men in urban settings; this bears a startling resemblance to “sucker-punching somebody on the sidewalk.” Indeed, I recall at least one prominent resident of a major U.S. city calling for the death penalty to be imposed upon five young black men for “wilding” and refusing to retract those remarks even after they were proven innocent, and then pretending to wonder why black people didn’t vote for him when he ran for public office. Carjacking is statistically associated with race, with DOJ statistics demonstrating that young black men identified as perpetrators by victims at least four times disproportionate to their demographic percentage of population in society. Similar cultural perceptions apply to armed robbery of liquor stores. Not for nothing did the original version of the video include clips of BLM protests descending into violence. And shooting the video at the site of repeated lynchings was also a signal that was heard loud and clear.

          I’ll grant that the particular cultural offense of burning a U.S. flag is not directly associated with race itself, but other forms of failing to demonstrate traditional respect for patriotic iconography are. Most recently, kneeling during the national anthem.

          And while cussing out a cop is not illegal, and stomping on or burning a flag is not only legal but Constitutionally-protected, it is an offense to cultural values held by the same sort of people who resented Colin Kaepernick and other black NFL players for kneeling during the anthem so much they burned their expensive sneakers and even-more-expensive season tickets and otherwise wet their pants to demonstrate how mad this failure to conform to their vision of patriotism made them. All of this occurred within recent living memory.

          But I won’t convince you of this. Doesn’t matter what I write, cite, or refer to. Because it requires acknowledging that there is such a thing as “subtext,” “innuendo,” “implication,” “historical context,” or “nuance.” And I’m sure that you’d tell a black person who reported being told to not be in certain places at certain times of day, or that they had fallen under heightened suspicion of criminality by authority figures, was surely just imagining it all. That Aldean’s song touches those same cultural nerves along with its overt threat of group-on-individual violence for transgressing cultural norms is entirely a coincidence and not at all related in any way.

          After all, the text doesn’t mention race at all, and as we’ve established, there is no such thing as “subtext.”Report

          • Pinky in reply to Burt Likko says:

            There is a problem with black urban criminality. The video and the song are about urban criminality and disrespectfulness.Report

            • Burt Likko in reply to Pinky says:

              Is there a problem with black urban disrespectfulness? Particularly towards law enforcement?Report

              • Pinky in reply to Burt Likko says:

                That’s a different subject. We’re talking about the song.Report

              • Burt Likko in reply to Pinky says:

                Yes we are. Someone said “There is a problem with black urban criminality. The video and the song are about urban criminality and disrespectfulness.” As between you and me, the person who said that wasn’t me.

                So I asked a question about whether disrepectfulness (particularly to police, as called out explicitly in the lyrics of the song) was something that also was associated with black people in urban settings.

                It does not escape my notice that you dodged answering the question.Report

              • Pinky in reply to Burt Likko says:

                It doesn’t escape my notice that a lawyer is trying to change the subject. Everyone knows that lawyers don’t change the subject by accident.

                As I said, the song is about urban criminality and disrespectfulness. I haven’t studied the video, but I’m sure that if 80% of the footage was black men committing carjackings and 20% was white men committing carjackings, someone would have noted it, so I’m going to assume that the video didn’t play up race. So it’s safe to say that the video is race-neutral. (I mean, after all, you’re talking about subtext, and you wouldn’t be doing that if you had any evidence.)

                So the video and song aren’t about black urban criminality.Report

              • Burt Likko in reply to Pinky says:

                There’s no change of subject going on here. Everything in this exchange has been about Aldean’s song and how it reads in cultural context.

                You 1) affirmatively contend that “the song and the video are about urban criminality and disrespectfulness,” and 2) you also affirmatively contend that there is a particular association between the black urban population and urban criminality, 3) have by adoptive admission agreed that there is also a particular problem with black urban disrespectfulness, but 4) insist that the song lacks any subtext associating the things that you admit the song is about with black people.

                And that’s because other people commenting on the video, which you have not seen, have failed to mention racial imbalance in its portrayal of criminal activities.

                If you won’t see the connection yourself that your own words make obvious, can you at least understand why other people are making that connection?Report

              • Pinky in reply to Burt Likko says:

                “you also affirmatively contend that there is a particular association between the black urban population and urban criminality”

                What do you mean by that?

                “the video, which you have not seen”

                I’ve seen it; it just didn’t stick with me.Report

              • Burt Likko in reply to Pinky says:

                Your words: “There is a problem with black urban criminality.”Report

              • Pinky in reply to Burt Likko says:

                You’re confusing a distinction with a conflation.Report

              • Chip Daniels in reply to Burt Likko says:

                You will notice that people who eagerly make the statistical correlation between race and violence tend to suddenly fall silent or evasive when it is time to discuss why the correlation exist.Report

              • Dark Matter in reply to Burt Likko says:

                The official video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1_RKu-ESCY

                Watching it slowly without the music on…

                All of the outright criminals/looters wear full body masks which obscure their race. I didn’t see any POC with the rioters. This was probably a deliberate effort. There were lots of whites rioting and flag burning.

                He’s playing in front of the American Flag (and a white building that is a poor stand in for the WH) and showing rioters burning flags and other things.

                Seeing race in the song probably says more about the observer than the observed.Report

              • Chip Daniels in reply to Dark Matter says:

                Seeing race in the song probably says more about the observer than the observed.

                Indeed it does.Report

            • Chip Daniels in reply to Pinky says:

              “Its not bigoted, its just about the problem with black urban criminality!”Report

      • Chip Daniels in reply to Burt Likko says:

        Aldean and his defenders are trying very hard to ignore that almost every week another person is convicted of being part of the mob that rioted and smashed their way into the US Capitol, beating and assaulting police officers along the way.

        Chance are, you show Aldean fans video of people stomping on a Capitol police officer and they would cheer. Hell I bet that more than a few Aldean fans were there that day.Report

        • Dark Matter in reply to Chip Daniels says:

          Trump support tends to skew rural so anything else that skews rural will tend to have them over represented.

          As this song celebrates small town America it certainly qualifies. John Mellencamp’s “Small Town” will work similarly.Report

  6. CJColucci says:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/27/opinion/small-towns-tolerance.html

    I have to wonder why it took him well into middle age to understand this, but wisdom so often never comes that we should be grateful when it comes late.Report

    • Slade the Leveller in reply to CJColucci says:

      Why is it conservatives have these epiphanies only after they’re the ones being shat upon?Report

      • CJColucci in reply to Slade the Leveller says:

        We should be charitable. It is general human nature, not a particular failing of conservatives. The line used to be “a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.” The alternative line “a liberal is a conservative who has been indicted” never caught up.
        Still, under current circumstances this is more likely to be a conservative phenomenon. The dispositional conservatives tend to think that life is basically pretty good for people like them, want to keep it that way, and rarely think about the plight of those not like them beyond “stop whining and get with the program.” So when life comes to bite them in the ass, and people “like them” start to treat them way the Other gets treated, it comes as a surprise.Report

  7. Slade the Leveller says:

    This story has stuck with me ever since I heard it: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nathan-mathis-father-gay-daughter-committed-suicide-dont-vote-for-roy-moore/.

    I’m a father of a gay daughter and I’m really glad it took just my love for her, rather than her taking her life, to hear her news with equanimity.Report