What the Trump Verdict Means, and What it Doesn’t

Em Carpenter

Em was one of those argumentative children who was sarcastically encouraged to become a lawyer, so she did. She is a proud life-long West Virginian, and, paradoxically, a liberal. In addition to writing about society, politics and culture, she enjoys cooking, podcasts, reading, and pretending to be a runner. She will correct your grammar. You can find her on Twitter.

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13 Responses

  1. Jaybird says:

    Here is the spin that I have seen.

    “He wasn’t found guilty of rape. He was found guilty of denying it.”

    So that’s the new talking point, I reckon.Report

  2. Philip H says:

    He doesn’t care. MAGA nation doesn’t care. And this is STILL not enough to get non-MAGA republicans to vote for a democrat.Report

    • Marchmaine in reply to Philip H says:

      Non-Maga Republicans won’t vote for Democrats because Democrats aren’t what Non-Maga Republicans want as representatives.

      That shouldn’t be the political goal… the reasonable political goal would be to encourage them to sit-out an election or spoil their presidential vote while voting for other R’s down-ballot (as per recent Governor elections).Report

    • Em Carpenter in reply to Philip H says:

      wvEsquiress May 10, 2023 at 8:59 am
      I wouldn’t expect it to be. Just as nothing Joe Biden could do would prompt me to vote for someone who stands for everything I abhor. I vote for people and policy, not parties. I’ve never understood why the wrongdoing of one candidate should sway one to vote against their own interests. And yet, I know that it does.Report

  3. Chip Daniels says:

    The reaction to the verdict is another data point showing that there is nothing the Republicans say that can be believed or taken at face value.
    They claim to care about morality; They don’t.

    Because it isn’t just this one episode, something that could plausibly be minimized as a good person having a lapse of judgement. Sexual harassment and misogyny is his known pattern, long before he ever became president.

    His attitude of “powerful men can do whatever they want” is the core of his worldview, the principle that animates every action he does, whether it is extorting the president of Ukraine or defrauding the suckers at his phony college.

    And this is what the vast majority of Republican base voters want. They aren’t “holding their nose” and voting for the lesser of two evils- There are half a dozen other Republicans who would pursue the same policies as Trump, but none have the toxic hostility to the American principle of equality under the law.Report

  4. Marchmaine says:

    I didn’t follow the case in any detail… the one thing that injected itself into my consciousness regarding the trial was this: Trump’s defense was that it didn’t happen because she wasn’t his type?

    Can that possibly be correct? Did that really happen (and was it as dispositive as people claim)? Supposedly the Marla Maples look-a-like photo sunk him? But really, think about it… the defense would play out as I may have done this, I did do this, but not to her. In a preponderance of evidence standard, that’s like walking up to 49.5% and saying, here, here I draw the line.

    If that description of events is reasonably accurate… then the ‘issue’ of time and statute of limitations is theoretical rather than material.Report

    • Greg In Ak in reply to Marchmaine says:

      In his depo he reiterated what he said in the access hollywood tape that stars like him have been able to get away with sexual assault for a long time. Don’t think that helped.Report

      • Marchmaine in reply to Greg In Ak says:

        Yeah, that’s what I saw screenshots of… I guess I was wondering if anyone who really followed the trial clicked through and watched the whole before/after for full context. And/Or how did he get maneuvered to that position where it was better to say that rather than just about anything else?Report

  5. CJColucci says:

    Em, any thought about why the punitive damages awards were so much lower than the compensatory damages awards?Report

    • Burt Likko in reply to CJColucci says:

      Em may have thoughts as well, but numbers like these are consistent with my experience. Of the verdicts I’ve seen with punitives awarded, more of them have been fractions of the compensatory than multiples. Why? Lots of theories but generally, I posit that juries don’t like the idea of punitive damages much after they get explanations of what non-economic compensatory damages are for.Report

      • KenB in reply to Burt Likko says:

        As a non-lawyer, I’ve never really understood why a civil trial would involve _punitive_ damages in the first place — isn’t that what criminal law is for? And why would punitive damages be awarded to the plaintiff — shouldn’t they be treated like fines and paid to the state?Report

        • CJColucci in reply to KenB says:

          The unsatisfying answer is that we decided long ago to allow punitive damages in civil trials and have stuck with it. For a great many civil claims, such as breach of contract cases and pure negligence tort claims, punitive damages are not available at all. They are, generally, restricted to tort claims involving intentional or reckless conduct that a jury considers morally blameworthy rather than just a violation of rules. Often, the conduct isn’t criminal, just really bad.
          Punitive damages are hard to get, and often, as in this case, small in proportion to the harm caused.
          They go to the plaintiff because the plaintiff is the party to the case, not the state. Nobody would bother to seek them otherwise, and the state would not got a dime. There have been proposals to allow states to glom onto some or all of a punitive award, and that is certainly something a state could legislate, but they have gone nowhere because not enough people who count want it.Report