Tell Me Lies, Tell Me Sweet Little Manufacturing Lies

Andrew Donaldson

Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has been the Managing Editor of Ordinary Times since 2018, is a widely published opinion writer, and appears in media, radio, and occasionally as a talking head on TV. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter@four4thefire. Andrew is the host of Heard Tell podcast. Subscribe to Andrew'sHeard Tell Substack for free here:

Related Post Roulette

13 Responses

  1. Philip H says:

    Yeah Democrats have once again shot themselves in the foot trying to create an expectation that heavy manufacturing will onshore. Like taking their charts and graphs to the proverbial gun fight they can’t seem to help themselves.Report

  2. Burt Likko says:

    Jeez, Andrew, next thing we know you’ll be telling West Virginians that coal mining is a dying industry.Report

  3. Pinky says:

    The US is the second-largest manufacturing country in the world behind China. Our manufacturing output per capita is double that of China. Only Ireland, Germany, South Korea, and Japan have larger per capita manufacturing output, at least among the major ones. (I knew Ireland was a powerhouse, but it’s ridiculous – they’re the 14th largest manufacturing producer, with only 5 million people.) So we don’t lack manufacturing; we just don’t have many single-industry towns anymore.Report

    • Brent F in reply to Pinky says:

      With every weird Irish economic statistic, I’m immediately suspicious that it isn’t actually Ireland at all, but Ireland for the purposes of tax accounting.Report

    • PD Shaw in reply to Pinky says:

      Putting Ireland aside, manufacturing makes up approximately nineteen percent of the German economy, so why is America’s eleven percent considered normal or a constraint? The difference btw/ Germany and the U.S. is policy. Germany enacts policies supporting manufacturing, and the U.S. supports the college lie, that the answer to long-term prosperity for every American is to go to college and get a great job, where you will be waited upon by those found lacking.

      What I don’t see tied together in these occasional OT hit pieces on mfg. is that the higher productivity rate might mean fewer jobs created, but it also means a higher pay dividend for labor. That’s why states pay for manufacturing jobs to relocate there, they want to import a middle class. Germany has 20% employed in manufacturing (compared with 10% in the U.S.) making almost 30% more than their American counterparts.

      (Germany’s manufacturing may have peaked with the Ukraine invasion, and what is likely to be a continuous energy crisis. That’s actually an advantage for the U.S. and not some harbinger)Report

      • InMD in reply to PD Shaw says:

        It’s more than just policy though. Or at least policy not easily implemented in the US. The entire German system rests on a much more collaborative relationship between business and the trade unions to maintain global competitiveness. It’s hard for me to imagine that happening in America.Report

        • Andrew Donaldson in reply to InMD says:

          The “Unternehmen Revier” program in the Ruhr in Germany is something a lot of folks are looking at for places like the rust belt in America both in what to do, and what not to do, and what lessons can be taken from it.Report

        • PD Shaw in reply to InMD says:

          Of course, it’s policy. German’s support a mixed economy with subsidies in one form or another, and the U.S. hasn’t for some time now. I wouldn’t expect a U.S. manufacturing policy to mirror Germany’s. Puerto Rico’s economy is 49% manufacturing. That’s the effect of U.S. policy.

          I would also emphasize a distinction btw/ manufacturing and urbanization, manufacturing does not have to be in the brownfields of large cities and is unlikely to take root there again.Report

          • InMD in reply to PD Shaw says:

            I guess the question then is what is the goal of US policy with regards to manufacturing? As we’ve seen with ripple effects from covid/rivalry with China there’s a national security argument to be made for on-shoring or at least friend-shoring certain kinds of manufacturing. The case for that though is really independent of what I think the OP is about, which is the loss of mass employment in low skill manufacturing jobs that compensated well enough for people with high school educations to have a middle class life. In that case it isn’t really about manufacturing, it’s about jobs.

            Now in Germany the players, including labor itself, are all working together for outcomes that keep manufacturing jobs in Germany, but I think public policy is downstream of that more than upstream. You can find plenty of stories where the boss and workers get together in America, agree on benefit or pay cuts or whatever to keep jobs in the US and a couple years later the whole operation moves to Mexico anyway. Maybe we could change policies to implement enough protectionism in the US to prevent that. What I’m not sure of though is that the bones of our economy and culture are structured for it whereas I think Germany’s very much are. Some of the trade unions at the table have technically existed for hundreds of years and are older than the German state. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I believe they also have a system whereby most workers are in some way represented by one of the 8 or 10 big trade unions no matter what kind of work they do. Unlike labor in the US they’re representing a lot more than highly parochial, often highly localized interests and have official seats at the table of government.

            None of that is to say it’s bad (really I find a lot to like about it) so much as that I think there’s some serious path dependence and I have no idea how we would get to anything like it from here.Report

            • PD Shaw in reply to InMD says:

              America has a history of Fordism, its own policies of supporting business with expectations for business supporting workers. Obama gave voice to this. From at least 1860 to 1952, the Republican Party had as one of its primary constituents manufacturing capitalists (as opposed to finance capitalist, Democrats) and at least until 1920, most of the manufacturing growth was in small midwest communities which benefitted from Republican policies. I don’t think pro-manufacturing policies are against any sort of American cultural mainstream, the historic currents shifted temporarily with the Cold War, and that post-war consensus is disappearing more every time one turns around.

              Until recently if there were stories dooming about manufacturing, newspapers and NPR would interview the President of the Illinois Manufacturing Association who would unload a number of statistics, some of it was simply to emphasize how many manufacturing jobs are in the state, because most of them are invisible. If they are not visible, they aren’t valued. He would also have the number of job openings anticipated in the next ten years or so — workers tend to stay at these jobs a long time, as they retire, replacements are needed, but the stability gives people the impression that jobs aren’t there. He would also discuss how much used to be spent on vocational programs in high schools versus today, while schools prepare all students for the SAT and expand advance placement and dual credit programs.

              I think unions are largely irrelevant in the U.S. in terms of these policy issues, and that itself might be path dependence from how the Civil War was won and victory imposed. The initial understanding of “Southern Strategy” was to provide low-cost, low-benefit, non-unionized work forces to attract Northern businesses without actually integrating into the National economy. Any national program will have to deal with the possibility that manufacturing may still want to locate where unions are weak. (Part of the reason unions are weak is that they were successful in supporting legislation that benefited all employees)Report

  4. Michael Cain says:

    …the modern steel plants are highly automated, computerized, and sanitized places you could just about eat off the floor of.

    I wouldn’t go so far as the eating, but otherwise yeah. The plant down the road from me makes 300 different alloys/grades of steel, sometimes 50 of them in a given month. Some they sell, some they use in specialty products. Eg, they produce rail rated for safe use down to -60 °C where that’s required. Lots of BS/MS degreed folks doing quality control and design. Their starting point is almost all recycled steel. The US produces about 80% of the steel it uses. What the US doesn’t do much of anymore is high-volume low-margin basic steel production.

    You could buy that mill now if you wanted. It’s indirectly majority-owned by a couple of Russian oligarchs who are worried about asset confiscation because of the war in Ukraine.Report