Voting Via USPS

Maura Alwyen

HVAC/R Master Craftsman, Chef, Woodworker, Journeyman Metalworker, somewhat of a Blacksmith, & Author I do my own stunts & cinematography. Typos, poor word choices, wrong but similar sounding word choices are par for the course. All mistakes are artisanally crafted from the finest oopsies. Otherwise I'm just a regular girl with opinions and a point from which to shout into the void.

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68 Responses

  1. Philip H says:

    I’m 100% behind both suggestions. Have been for years.

    As to the rest – we know about all those incidents because the system worked as designed and caught those folks. We also know that, in the most recent presidential election, most all of the incidents mentioned were conducted by people supporting the Republican incumbent. And we know that, added together, they wouldn’t have swayed anything, which is why the “election security laws” then passed by Republican state legislatures are so pernicious. Those laws solve no problems, and as Texas just saw in their governors primary, they create new problems.Report

  2. Kazzy says:

    I imagine a major tripping point with vote-by-mail is that many folks — really, probably everyone — has had some sort of bad experience with the mail that inevitably sews doubt in the mind. I mean, I fully support vote-by-mail and yet I still opted to place my ballot in the local drop box rather than the mail box. This didn’t require extra effort — both were located very nearby to me and on routes I typically drove/walked — so I’m not sure what I would have done if there was a significant difference in ease.

    I do think helping folks understand how mailing ballots is different than mailing postcards might help. Hell, we probably all could use a refresher on how good the post office actually is even with postcards and the like… we all remember the time something didn’t arrive or arrived late, but what percentage of mail is on time and delivered properly? Probably much higher than any of us realize.Report

    • Jennifer Worrel in reply to Kazzy says:

      Regarding the last federal election cycle, many people believe the “bad experience with the mail that inevitably sews doubt in the mind” was by design and executed by Louis DeJoy.

      Frankly, I’d be interested in seeing an apples-to-apples comparison across all states score carding ease-of-voting. Then we could stop the hand wringing over states like Georgia making changes when there are examples of “blue” states with much more limited voting options.Report

        • Jennifer Worrel in reply to Philip H says:

          Actually no, I am looking for something more like a table or a grid.

          For example, I live in Georgia. It’s “ranked” 49th, but having lived in other states and blessed with the ability to read, I don’t buy the ranking. Five states in the country don’t allow early voting, and Georgia’s is 3 weeks long.Report

          • Oscar Gordon in reply to Jennifer Worrel says:

            The ranking isn’t just early voting, it’s also ease/cost of registering to vote, etc. So perhaps those other 5 states have very straightforward registration policies, and/or they have VBM/absentee balloting that is easy to do. You really have to look at the data and how it’s weighed.

            Here is the criteria:
            https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/elj.2017.0478Report

          • DavidTC in reply to Jennifer Worrel says:

            For example, I live in Georgia. It’s “ranked” 49th, but having lived in other states and blessed with the ability to read, I don’t buy the ranking. Five states in the country don’t allow early voting, and Georgia’s is 3 weeks long.

            Watch, I can psychically predict some things:

            You don’t live in Fulton (Unless it’s Buckhead), or south Cobb, or east Decatur.

            Or I guess a better prediction is: When you stand in line to vote, if you were to look around at the line, the percentage of Black people in line would be lower than the Georgia average of 33% Black people.Report

            • Jennifer Worrel in reply to DavidTC says:

              Regarding your physic abilities:

              I live in Fulton, not Buckhead.

              Decatur is a city, not a county.

              We deliberately live where we live because I wanted to raise my kids in a very diverse community.Report

              • DavidTC in reply to Jennifer Worrel says:

                LOL. Oh, you sure proved me wrong…except I meant to say south Fulton and had an editing glitch there. (Also: I didn’t say Decatur was a county)

                Which I know sounds a bit like I’m trying to cover my ass from my ‘mistake’, but, uh…people who think that don’t know anything about Georgia. If you know anything about Georgia, I rather obviously meant south Fulton.

                So, for those who don’t know Georgia: Fulton is a long thin county, one of the largest there is in Georgia.

                South Fulton is Atlanta, and very Black. (And South Fulton also has Buckhead, a weird neighborhood of extremely wealthy white people who sorta have too much money to move and live in large estates with the nicest roads you’ll ever see. Hence my exception.)

                North Fulton is a bunch of cities randomly created to stop their tax Fulton dollars from going to Atlanta and poorer residents in the south. And very white. (And also trying to succeed from Fulton County itself.)

                You weirdly didn’t answer my amended prediction, which would sorta clarify the entire point of trying to ascertain location: What do the people look like in line when you vote? What is the average pigmentation of that line?

                Or, just, state is the demographics of your area, and no handwaved ‘I wanted to raise my kids in a very diverse community.’

                In fact, I actually see that very specific dodge: Because North Fulton is ‘diverse’…in that they have moderate amounts of Asian people and/or Hispanic people. (And by ‘Asian’, that’s mostly South Asian. I literally live next to Johns Creek, and the closest grocery store to me is Patel Brothers.)

                And thus those areas are not subject to Georgia voter suppression, which is laser-focused on Black people. (And also the percentage isn’t that high.)

                To put actual numbers to this: Fulton County is 42% Black, 38% white. Literally a Black majority county.

                Milton, Sandy Springs, and Johns Creek, all cities _within_ North Fulton, are individually 9% Black/62% white, 10% Black/47% white,18% Black/53% white, respectively.

                While, again, being in a county that is majority Black.

                And people in those cities mysteriously have NO PROBLEM voting. People in the south part, however, find it very difficult. (Outside of Buckhead.)Report

    • Oscar Gordon in reply to Kazzy says:

      Although the USPS does lose / chew up some percentage of mail, the vast bulk of it gets to where it is going, especially the pieces that have addresses that are easy to read by a machine (i.e. not handwritten). And the USPS pays special attention to certain types of mail (e.g. registered mail), and I believe ballots tend to get more attention than, say, your typical bulk mailer advertising.Report

      • Kazzy in reply to Oscar Gordon says:

        Yea, I’m talking about the perception more than the reality.

        “A birthday card from my granny which she hand addressed with her arthritic hands arrived late! How can we trust ballots via mail?!” Fair or not, that’s how folks will think.

        And that’s before bad actors exploit that concern.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to Kazzy says:

      The last two years have probably has had a lot of strong opinions on not only the USPS but stuff that isn’t the USPS but likely bundled with it.

      Like Amazon delivery.

      How are the package deliveries where you live?

      If you got 99% of the things you ordered over the last two years of quasi-safe-at-home, you probably feel good about vote-by-mail.

      If your neighborhood has porch pirates, you probably feel less good about vote-by-mail.

      “A private citizen stealing a package of cat food off your porch is substantively different from putting a letter in the mail and it not getting there.”

      “I would not argue that they are identical. I am, instead, talking about various feelings among various people.”

      Anyway, I imagine that the amount of trust in the vote-by-mail system correlates pretty well to the amount of trust in package delivery.Report

      • InMD in reply to Jaybird says:

        I think that’s part of it. I think another part of it is questions like is it really a secret ballot when it’s vote by mail? Is the vote really secure? Is the real goal a backdoor way for bad actors to do something coercive or ballot harvest or whatever?

        There are certainly plenty of ways to make sure it is not but there’s also a trust problem. Whether or not it’s rational it’s something that probably needs to be answered.Report

    • Damon in reply to Kazzy says:

      Well, let me kick in here for personal experience. My neighborhood has had continual issues with first class mail deliveries for a decade or more. I know this because I experienced it. I LITERALLY had my rent check, when I was renting, take 6 weeks to go 1 mile to my landlord. This happened, on average 4 times a year. My rent check was 1 of 7 checks I mailed monthly. I’ve had credit card payments take 2 plus months to arrive and be processed. A recent example: I mailed a valentine’s day card to a friend on the a week before the holiday. It arrive a week late. It took 2 weeks to process and deliver and go 25 miles.

      If I was gonna vote, I’d drop off my ballot vs mail it in.Report

  3. Kolohe says:

    Good article yet again. Some points on the downsides on both methods

    1) Mail voting lacks the immediate remedy that is sometimes possible in person for some mistakes. Most common is probably over-voting. (I.e. marking two choices when you’re only supposed to have one, or three when there’s only supposed to be two etc.).
    The machine can spit out an error message and tell the pollworkers the voter did this (without telling whom the voter voted for) and the pollworkers can issue another ballot.

    2) you would be surprised at how many people are confused by anything other than straightforward, head to head one on one election choice. Another downside of Mail in is the lack of the ability to ask a pollworker questions if they are confused on what they need to do. (Ballot questions are another frequent stumbling block).

    3) Which leads to the downside on ranked choice voting, which is its far more complex than what most voters are used to. And if the voting is Mail in only, again, the voter doesn’t really have anyone convenient to answer questions.

    On balance, I am in favor of both Mail in voting and ranked choice voting. But people should be aware there are downsides.

    (Source – working in my local precinct for the past few years which is mostly upper middle class white collar (and white) people, but also has one large income restricted govt assisted senior citizens facility (which the polling place is actually in). These latter group of people, due to the varying physical abilities that naturally come with age, and some that don’t speak English as a first language, require the most assistance on average)Report

    • Oscar Gordon in reply to Kolohe says:

      Regarding voter questions, look to the states that have been doing it for years. Voter info booklets go out weeks before the ballots do, voters have easy access to SOS websites and employees for questions, etc. Voters typically have the ballot for about 2 weeks before the election.

      Really, it’s only a problem for people who wait until the last minute to vote and then have questions.

      As for ranked choice, the places that do it tend to find that once voters get used to it, they prefer it. So it tends to only be an issue for a handful of election cycles.Report

  4. InMD says:

    I’m not totally anti-vote by mail but I am still lost on the sudden urgency of it. I get there have been states with a long history of doing it that way and that is fine, no need to revisit it in those places.

    However I think there’s kind of a faulty underlying premise that those states that pre-covid did not have it unexcused are forcing everyone to show up to a single place on a single day in their horse and buggy. The reality is that most jurisdictions have days and sometimes weeks of early in person voting, including on weekends. I’ve done it this way for years and it’s typically an in and out process where often enough the poll workers outnumber the voters. If you aren’t disabled and you can’t find a way to get there in the days and days where the opportunity is open I just don’t know what to tell you.

    I’m all for accommodations for people who need it but this otherwise seems like a solution in search of a problem.Report

    • Michael Cain in reply to InMD says:

      I’m all for accommodations for people who need it but this otherwise seems like a solution in search of a problem.

      In the 13-state western region, >90% of all votes cast in 2020 were distributed by mail. It will not be surprising if that number were >95% this year. (A significantly smaller percentage is returned by mail. People like drop boxes for a variety of reasons.)

      I have said for years that the popularity is because vote by mail solves multiple problems. (1) Humongous counties and mountains; some people may live a multiple-hour drive from the county seat or even a polling place. (2) Low population, so low tax base, in many rural counties (talking less than 7.0 people per square mile, the old definition for “frontier”); adding Saturday or Sunday early voting can be a significant expense. (3) Insane population growth in the urban areas; voting locations changed every election to accommodate that. (4) Ballot initiatives are common, so ballots tend to be long; back in the day, I heard polling place workers talking about people that took 20 minutes or more to vote.

      Permanent no-excuse mail ballots turned out to largely solve all of the problems. They were popular with voters. So much so, that at some point election officials asked the obvious question: why are we spending so much to preserve a precinct-like in-person voting system in parallel with the more-popular less-expensive mail ballots? So, vote by mail with a small number of vote centers to handle the edge cases. With its new vote by mail system, the state of Hawaii has eight places for in-person voting. Colorado actively discourages people from voting in person.Report

      • InMD in reply to Michael Cain says:

        Like I said at the beginning of that comment, I don’t see a pressing need for those states who for historical or geographic or whatever other reasons have always done it that way to rethink it. But nor do I see a pressing need for states that never did it that way in significant quantities before 2020 to decide they are going all in on VBM permanently.Report

        • Oscar Gordon in reply to InMD says:

          It should not be an instant switch. VBM takes time to setup properly and securely. It also takes time to get voters and candidates on board and comfortable with it. I could very much see a lot of states taking the route AZ did, where VBM is no reason needed opt-in (you have to specifically tell the SOS that you want your ballot mailed). The old in person system is preserved and utilized until the state has enough by-in that they can do away with the bulk of in-person voting.Report

          • I was pleasantly surprised the there were no major screw-ups in the Nov 2020 elections after several states greatly expanded their existing absentee systems from single-digit percentages to half or more. I anticipated at least one of them would have an absolute disaster.Report

          • InMD in reply to Oscar Gordon says:

            If that’s what they want to do then fine, I just think for this conversation to be rational you have to look at the actual status quo actually is. Take a look at the link below:

            https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/early-voting-in-state-elections.aspx

            There are all of 6 states with none of early in person, in person absentee, or vote by mail with early voting options. Of those states, 2 are in the NE, 3 are in the South, 1 is in the Midwest. At a glance the latest you can get in early in some form or fashion is DC at 7 days before the election, but most have at least 10 days, and many have 2 weeks or even longer.

            My point isn’t that you can’t make a sound public policy case for unexcused VBM. It’s that the situation is hardly a crisis and there are options if people chose to avail themselves of them. To make the process work there are always some lines drawn somewhere, and at a certain point they will be kind of arbitrary. Nevertheless I get the sense that there are people who would not be happy unless an agent of the state or favored NGO is going door to door and moving people’s hands for them to fill in a ballot. It’s silly.Report

            • Oscar Gordon in reply to InMD says:

              Agree. If anything, I remain of the opinion that how a state votes is entirely up to that state, and the fed should have little to no say in the particulars. Ergo, Congress should not be trying to force unexcused VBM, nor should it be trying to ban it or disable it.

              Otherwise, as long as citizens have an unobstructed ability to vote (which also entails an unobstructed ability to satisfy voting requirements), I’m pretty ambivalent.

              Just to clarify, if a state has easy to use early or absentee voting options, that are well publicized, and you still have long lines at polls on election day, then claims of polling place shenanigans are kinda weak. That less on the government and more on the citizenry.Report

            • Michael Cain in reply to InMD says:

              I cheerfully admit I’m overly sensitive on the topic. I just get so tired of East Coast friends and pundits — and I’m not pointing this complaint at you — who keep telling me that there must be enormous amounts of fraud going on, “if only you westerners were smart enough to look properly.”Report

            • Philip H in reply to InMD says:

              My point isn’t that you can’t make a sound public policy case for unexcused VBM

              Sure you can. Western states have done just that. Plus it seems – based on reported statistics – to mean more people vote. That by itself should be all the public policy grounds you need.Report

    • JS in reply to InMD says:

      “I’m not totally anti-vote by mail but I am still lost on the sudden urgency of i”

      How many multi-hour lines have you waited in to vote? I’m guessing very few.

      It’s strange how those lines are always in the same places. You’d THINK the states would, obviously, budget for more equipment for those long lined areas, or even take some from the places where the longest wait was 5 minutes if desperate.

      And yet…it never happens. The lines are always long, no money is every allocated to fix it.

      Why, a cynical man might think someone was trying to discourage voting there. Perish the thought — that’s as unlikely as the law banning out giving WATER to the poor saps stuck in a 4 hour line. Can you imagine?Report

      • InMD in reply to JS says:

        If you don’t want to wait in line learn your state’s early voting rules. I know, reading and doing the slightest bit of preparation is oh so hard. But you know, seems worth it to me to exercise an important civil right.Report

        • Kazzy in reply to InMD says:

          NJ did not offer early voting until 2021. This means we haven’t yet had a Presidential election that allowed it.

          Do any states not yet allow it at all?Report

          • Michael Cain in reply to Kazzy says:

            The NCSL says there are six that currently do not have any early in-person voting: AL, CT, MO, MS, NH, and SC. NCSL is usually quite good at keeping their information up to date.Report

          • InMD in reply to Kazzy says:

            I actually just threw a link Oscar’s way above. I don’t know loads about the source so if it’s bad I withdraw the assertion, but per that site there appear to be just 6 states where there is no unexcused option other than day of in person (NH, CT, MO, MS, AL, SC).Report

            • Kazzy in reply to InMD says:

              If my estimated math AND memory of abbreviations is accurate, this covers about 24M Americans, so less than 10% of the population (total population, not adults or registered voters).

              So, a not-insignificant portion but no where near the majority.Report

              • InMD in reply to Kazzy says:

                If I was a resident of one of those states I’d absolutely want them to open up the options.

                But if they said we don’t like VBM, and instead we’re going to do early voting during normal business hours starting 4 Mondays before the election to the Friday before, including the 2nd Saturday (AKA what Georgia does), I would not look at it as some kind of travesty. Compared to some other states I’d say it was actually pretty good.Report

              • Kazzy in reply to InMD says:

                I don’t think it helps that the laws seem to change so much, even if the changes are A) well intentioned and B) do expand voting access.

                Like, I don’t think NJ allowed vote by mail except for certain reasons via an absentee ballot. And they did not allow early voting until just last year.

                For 2020, everyone got a mail-in ballot. And I believe this continued through every cycle since then. I got a letter recently which I think informed me that I would stay on the mail ballot list unless I opted out. My girlfriend does not remember getting this letter (we live together and have since summer 2020).

                And now NJ offers early voting.

                All of this would make voting easier, it would seem. All of these changes are good, I would say.

                And yet, they definitely muddy the waters on if/when/how/where I should vote.

                Now, I’ll take the time to figure all this out by the next election, but I’m well positioned to do so across every variable pretty much.

                But I can definitely see how this might lead to some folks not voting because they couldn’t or didn’t take the time to sort through it all. And they certainly bear responsibility for that so I’m not saying the changes are the problem. Just that frequent changes… if every cycle functions differently than the last cycle… that isn’t without cost.

                Here is what NJ offers for 2022:
                You may:

                Apply for a vote-by-mail ballot and return it one of the following ways:
                Mail: Vote-by-mail ballots sent through the mail must be postmarked by Election Day, and received by the county Board of Elections on or before the sixth day after the close of the polls.
                Primary Election – June 7, 2022
                General Election – November 8, 2022
                Secure Ballot Drop Box: Secure Ballot Drop Box: Place it in one of your county’s secure ballot drop boxes by 8:00 p.m. on Election Day. Drop box locations can be found at Vote.NJ.Gov.
                Board of Elections Office: Deliver it in person to your county’s Board of Elections Office by 8:00 p.m. on Election Day. County Election Officials’ contact information can be found at Vote.NJ.Gov.
                In-Person Early Voting for both the Primary Election and the General Election. Each NJ county will hold in-person machine voting. Each county, depending on its size, will designate a minimum of 3 to 10 voting locations for early in-person voting purposes. Early voting locations will be open from at least 10 am to 8 pm on Mondays through Saturdays, and from at least 10 am to 6 pm on Sundays. Go to Vote.NJ.Gov for your early voting sites.
                Primary Election – June 3, 2022 – June 5, 2022
                General Election – October 29, 2022 – November 6, 2022
                In-Person Voting on Election Day, at your polling place, from 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Accommodations will be made for voters with disabilities. Go to Vote.NJ.Gov for your polling place, listed on the Polling Locations page.
                Primary Election – June 7, 2022
                General Election – November 8, 2022
                NOTE: Vote-by-mail ballots CANNOT be returned to your polling place for this election.

                The last “normal” election only had the In-Person on Election Day option.

                Also, it would appear from your description that Georgia’s early voting offers more opportunities than NJ’s. Is there’s coupled with easy VBM?Report

              • InMD in reply to Kazzy says:

                On the consistency thing I agree. I also don’t doubt some jurisdictions manage these things (from communication to everything else) better than others. I think a good rule of thumb is to just google it when an election is coming up to see what the situation is. That’s certainly imperfect but as long as these things are run at the state and municipal level I think it is what it is.

                Re: Georgia that’s kind of the rub. Per the link you’ve got a just under 4 week window to get to a voting center in person but my read is that there is no unexcused VBM.Report

              • Kazzy in reply to InMD says:

                I’d be curious what ends up improving voter turnout more: longer early voting periods OR simple VBM. Not even sure how to measure that.Report

              • Michael Cain in reply to Kazzy says:

                I have argued for a long time that a nice, controversial ballot initiative does more to bring out the vote than the election mechanics. People seem to be much more interested in voting for/against policies than for/against politicians.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Michael Cain says:

                We used to have people stand in front of the Safeway and King Soopers with petitions to get a ballot initiative to legalize pot. Oh, and while you’re here, please sign this other petition to do this other thing. Limit housing starts East of Powers, say. Allow rainwater collection on property.

                I remember signing the pot one and then not signing the housing starts one and the guy getting petulant.

                Anyway, since pot got legalized, I have seen exactly ONE petitioner in front of King Soopers. It was to change the law for full strength beer sales in grocery stores.

                Substances, man.Report

              • Michael Cain in reply to Jaybird says:

                Collector who was paid by the signature?

                All of the attempts to recall Polis had signature collectors outside King Sooper’s where I lived. At least for a while. I think until it became obvious they weren’t going to get nearly enough.Report

        • JS in reply to InMD says:

          “If you don’t want to wait in line learn your state’s early voting rules”

          Are you honestly that out of touch? Is you next bit of advice “be polite to the cop and he won’t shoot you”?

          There are far fewer early voting locations than election day locations, and what on God’s Green Earth makes you think those places with hours long lines are any different for early voting?

          Hint: They’re not. In fact they’re just as crowded, because for some reason there’s very, very, VERY few early voting locations for those areas with, again, a strangely limited number of machines.

          Do you honestly think those hours long lines are accidents? Or that the people that make sure they happen would forget about early voting?Report

          • Chris in reply to JS says:

            I don’t know where you are, but here, even in presidential elections, unless you go after 5:30 or so, early voting places usually have little or no wait time (and the county, to its credit, has a map of all the polling places with live wait times). I have only stood in line to vote once in the last 10 years or so, and that was because I waited until the last evening of early voting. In fact, I left after waiting a bit (the line was over an hour long), because as someone who not only hates to vote, but who thinks it’s mostly pointless, I simply don’t care enough to wait that long.Report

            • JS in reply to Chris says:

              I’ve only waited ten minutes myself, but I live in suburbs.

              But I have friends who have had those long waits on election days, and their say early voting is the same thing — not enough machines and hours long wait anytime outside of business hours. (IE: When most people can vote).

              Now Houston’s been doing it’s best to fix that — 24/7 voting areas, “any precinct” voting (you can use ANY early voting location to vote in Harris County races), drive-through voting, etc. The State’s decided all those are awful ideas though, weirdly.

              It’s weird how Harris County’s been handling elections find, then the State makes a BUNCH of new rules and outlaws a bunch of things, and the primaries was a shit-show.Report

              • Chris in reply to JS says:

                I live in the city, on the historically neglected side, with significantly fewer polling places than the other side of the city, and don’t have a problem. I think it’s a county by county thing, even in a state as shitty as this one.Report

            • DavidTC in reply to Chris says:

              don’t know where you are, but here, even in presidential elections, unless you go after 5:30 or so, early voting places usually have little or no wait time (and the county, to its credit, has a map of all the polling places with live wait times).

              Some of us live in places with decades-long history of voter suppression that operates by deliberately making the lines extremely long in minority areas?

              What sort of pointless question is this?Report

          • Damon in reply to JS says:

            be polite to the cop and he won’t shoot you”?

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8&ab_channel=InsaneNutterReport

          • InMD in reply to JS says:

            Really? It’s like that nationwide even in the states where early voting centers are open for weeks before the election?Report

            • JS in reply to InMD says:

              I believe it was Atlanta wherein you could get the “free photo ID” for voting purposes that had a single office for the entire city, open one day a month, for three hours.

              That’s the country we live in.

              This sort of will naivety, this belief that surely America can’t be like that — it’s just a few bad apples, an isolated problem — is just amazing.

              it is why black Americans seem so exasperated by white Americans starting to think “Maybe there’s a problem with the police?” as ubiquitous cameras catch what they’ve been saying for decades — and white Americans have been simply refusing to believe.

              It’s just a few bad apples, an isolated problem.

              (And if you don’t think preventing the “wrong sort” from voting is connected to “putting the wrong sort in their place” by cops, I’ve got a Nigerian prince that needs your help)Report

        • Philip H in reply to InMD says:

          Mississippi doesn’t offer early voting in the sense you are used to from Maryland (which I dearly miss). There is a window where you can vote “early” using and absentee ballot IF you meet one of 13 state law mandates excuses to do so. And are willing to swear to that excuse on a notorized form that accompanies your ballot. A good many southern states operate in a similar fashion.Report

          • InMD in reply to Philip H says:

            According to the link it’s only 3 in the South that do that, then 2 in the NE and 1 in the MW. And yea I think people are rightly frustrated with that, but they are truly outliers even compared to most of the South.Report

          • Michael Cain in reply to Philip H says:

            A good many southern states operate in a similar fashion.

            When you look at databases of election fraud, at cases where an election was actually (almost) stolen, one of the things that jumps out is how many of them were county-level elections in a few southern states. The specifics I recall just because of frequency had the county recorder steal the election for one of the candidates for county sheriff using an antique absentee ballot system.

            The ballots were all counted and the candidate the recorder wanted to win needed 50 more votes. So the recorder looked in the poll books and found 50 people who didn’t vote or request an absentee ballot. For those 50 the recorder forged the simple paper absentee request, put those in the files, then filled out fake absentee ballots and counted them. I believe many of the notary requirements were added because it’s much harder for the county recorder to tamper with the notaries’ records. That’s not an unreasonable approach in a pen-and-paper-only system.

            One of the reasons western vote by mail states now dominate the rankings experts do for election security is that the systems are designed from the ground up to make that sort of back office wholesale fraud very hard.Report

      • Michael Cain in reply to JS says:

        In many states, most of the election funding isn’t done at the state level, but at the county level. Which creates its own kind of mischief.Report

    • Mike Schilling in reply to InMD says:

      It was important during Covid to have an alternative to in-person voting, and Trump and his flunkies (i.e. the GOP), reasoning that their voters were on the whole more willing to risk infection, did everything they could to torpedo that, up to and including sabotaging the USPS. So the urgency is screw themReport

  5. Chip Daniels says:

    “If you want to vote, just go to the DMV and get an ID”.
    *Republicans close down a number of DMVs*

    “If you want to vote, just vote early!”
    *Republicans shorten early voting windows*

    “If you want to vote just drop off your ballot at a box!”
    *Republicans remove dropboxes*

    “If you want to vote, just have a civic organization collect the ballots!”
    *Republicans outlaw ballot harvesting*

    “If you want to vote, just vote absentee by mail!”
    *Republicans tighten vote by mail requirements*

    Any of these dry wonkish essays about elections has to fail, unless it acknowledges that the Republican Party has engaged in a full scale battle to reduce access to voting.Report