Robert Taft: Infuriating Man of Principle

Avi Woolf

3rd class Elder of Zion. Wilderness conservative/traditionalist. Buckley Club alum. Chief editor of @conpathways.

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15 Responses

  1. Really interesting piece! Thanks!Report

  2. Saul Degraw says:

    Just because someone keeps to their principles, does not mean their principles are good.Report

  3. PD Shaw says:

    I think a fair number of the Justices sitting on the Supreme Court disapproved of the Nuremberg trials for draping victor’s justice in the costume of due process, as well as Justice Jackson accepting the appointment to act as a prosecutor. But I don’t think these views were made public at the time.Report

  4. Chip Daniels says:

    Its good to demand adherence to the law.
    But its also important to remember that the law itself needs to be held to some higher standard.

    We saw this a lot during the Iraq war and the discussions about how to treat Al Queda and Taliban prisoners at Gitmo. In those cases “It conforms to the law!” became a farce, since the law was being constantly adjusted to whatever the administration wanted it to be.Report

    • MikeNM in reply to Chip Daniels says:

      I think the treatment of GWoT detainees is an excellent case for his approach, though. Our laws were so broad as to give almost a blank check. The laws didn’t strictly delimit authority.

      While we can and sometimes should talk of higher standards, such standards aren’t self-enforcing. They will only be upheld to the extent that We the People and our government officials see to it that they are. And, they will not be upheld beyond the standard that we have for them. Requiring government use of power to be specifically defined in law can’t save us from creating evil law should we collectively choose to do so, but it does require us to confront and put into words what we will see done and prevent us from playing a circular game where we pretend it’s not what we’re doing when we pass vaguely worded laws and then pretend that because it doesn’t violate the vaguely worded law, it’s fine.Report

    • The “law itself needs to be held to some higher standard” very easily becomes “…and this standard is based on my personal morality!”

      The Bush administration (many of them) and those working under it were terrible awful people who got away with things they should have faced retribution for. The solution to the excesses of the Bush administration should never have been “game on, my side should do this too.”

      The reason why adhering to the law is a superior approach than some nebulous “higher standard” is that the “higher standard” is even easier to constantly adjust to whatever the administration wants it to be than laws are. Laws are better than “higher standards” because laws must be argued over, agreed upon, made matters of the public record, typically are based in history of many generations of collective human experience, and are available for the individuals who are supposed to obey and enforce said laws, to read and understand themselves. There is accountability in laws, baked into them, that is not present in “higher standards.”

      The real farce is claiming that laws have shortcomings because they aren’t always fairly and justly implemented, but with a straight face offering up as alternative “higher standards,” as if those would be in any way fairly and justly implemented.Report

  5. CJColucci says:

    Are you sure “ribald libertarian” is the phrase you want? Perhaps you’re confusing Robert with his father.

    https://www.comics.org/issue/968404/Report

  6. Jennifer Worrel says:

    “People like Robert Taft remind us that there are many arguments or ideas made in the past which can resonate or unsettle us just as strongly today as then, even if we think – incorrectly – that the matter was “settled.” We would do well to learn from them, afford them that respect, and realize that “dialogues” with the past must always cut both ways.”

    Really appreciated this piece.Report

  7. Brandon Berg says:

    To clarify, Taft did advocate imprisoning the National Socialist leaders for life, but objected specifically to the hanging, and had procedural objections to what was essentially a show trial for crimes that had not actually been illegal under international law at the time they had been committed.Report

    • DavidTC in reply to Brandon Berg says:

      to what was essentially a show trial for crimes that had not actually been illegal under international law at the time they had been committed.

      I mean, ‘not actually been illegal under international law at the time they had been committed’ is sorta a nonsense concept to have and would keep most of the framework of international law from existing. A huge chunk of international law is basically ‘whatever the prevailing consensus is the law’. (Plus explicit treaties)

      If you limit international law to ‘Things that the countries involved already agree, via treaty, were illegal’, you’ve functionally uninvented international law, because countries could just withdraw from (Or never enter) treaties and agreements they didn’t like.

      International law, specifically ‘crimes against humanity’, recognizes that there are behaviors that are so unacceptable that no one is allowed to do them, not even a country to their own citizens under their own laws.

      Although it sorta sounds like Robert Taft’s objection was more ‘post ex facto’? But the thing is, barring post ex facto is supposed to stop people from doing things that they think are legal, but then later aren’t.

      But everyone basically agrees that countries shouldn’t have ever thought genocide of their own citizens was okay. Everyone should have understood that such a thing was always out of bounds.

      In fact, the international community almost prosecuted people for ‘violations of the laws of humanity’ after World War I, for pretty much the same thing. This wasn’t some new concept that sprung out of nothing.Report

      • DavidTC in reply to DavidTC says:

        In fact, the international community had been headed in that direction for over a hundred years, starting with the slavery abolition movement, where the world started saying ‘No, there are some things you can’t do to people, not even your own people in your own jurisdiction, Mr. Government, no matter if you make your laws say that it’s nice and legal’.

        The concept of crimes against humanity didn’t just spring, fully formed, out of the heads of Zeus in 1948. That was when it was finally just articulated, and the world finally, finally, started punishing people for committing those crimes.

        Which sounds nobler than it was, the only real reason we were able to do that is that they had just lost a pretty bad war and no one would protect them. We’re still very bad at holding people to account for that shit.

        But Nuremberg wasn’t vengeance, it was, for once, being able to uphold what everyone, hypothetically, agreed upon. (At least until it came to restraining _their_ behavior, in which case those rules never applied.)Report

  8. Ken S says:

    George Kennan had a different objection to the Nuremberg trials — the presence of Soviet judges. He accepted the proposition that Hitler’s henchmen deserved to be judged, but not by Stalin’s henchmen.Report