Linky Friday: Lies, Slander, and Calumny Edition

Andrew Donaldson

Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has been the Managing Editor of Ordinary Times since 2018, is a widely published opinion writer, and appears in media, radio, and occasionally as a talking head on TV. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter@four4thefire. Andrew is the host of Heard Tell podcast. Subscribe to Andrew'sHeard Tell Substack for free here:

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30 Responses

  1. Pinky says:

    LF1 – I love how the press candidly admits they weren’t capable of pursuing the truth during the Trump years. Yes, we noticed.

    I still hate the pro forma claim of death threats, but I guess the one in this story is a little more interesting.Report

    • Philip H in reply to Pinky says:

      Dr. Fauci had a security detail at one point. So did Dr. Redfield. They don’t normally. You be the judge.

      And the Press wasn’t prevented form pursuing anything. One agency of the government told another agency of the government not to look at something because they worried about the optics of it. Stupid – probably. Indicative of a deep state nefarious plot to hide the origins of COVID? hardly.Report

  2. Oscar Gordon says:

    LF4: Is it just me, or are politicians these days far too willing to tell the public, “That ain’t nothing, hold my beer, watch this!”?Report

    • Pinky in reply to Oscar Gordon says:

      The new “evidentiary standard” outlined in the proposed Texas law would allow a partisan who is contesting an election result to “prove” their allegation of fraud “by a preponderance of the evidence.” In addition to this far lower standard, the legislation declares that “if the number of votes illegally cast in the election is equal to or greater than the number of votes necessary to change the outcome of an election, the court may declare the outcome of the election void without attempting to determine how individual voters voted.”

      I freely admit I don’t trust the press members who are complaining about this, but that said, is there anything in this that meets the “hold my beer” standard?Report

      • Philip H in reply to Pinky says:

        You don’t see lowering the evidentiary threshold as a “hold me beer” moment? Fascinating . . . .Report

        • Pinky in reply to Philip H says:

          Nothing beyond an “I find it interesting”?Report

          • Philip H in reply to Pinky says:

            Because you think the “Beyond a reasonable doubt” standard is too high, or because you don’t see an issue with “preponderance of evidence?”Report

            • Pinky in reply to Philip H says:

              What I meant by that last comment was that, rather than explain what you thought was wrong about the different standard, you made an “I find it interesting” type comment. That sounds like you don’t have a strong case.

              IA also NAL, like Oscar. These may be good changes, or maybe not. Any non-lawyer who looks at them and rents his garments is doing so based on partisan priors.Report

              • Philip H in reply to Pinky says:

                I actually have a lot of personal and professional experience interacting with the legal system . . . . so its not just my priors . . .

                The thing about lowering the bar is it becomes much easier for partisan judges on either side of the bench to sweep aside illegitimate legal reasoning and faulty evidence to order a conclusion. The prime reason McConnell spent so much time getting conservative judges on the federal bench under Obama is he believes (as do most Republican politicians and donors) that a conservative bench is the quickest way to undue the regulatory state that they see as an impediment to their greed. Just like with abortion – where having the White House, House and Senate resulted in zero changes to laws affecting abortion, Republicans know that if they ram through bills taking out the Clean Air act they will loose politically. But if the courts do it and that gets sustained to SCOTUS, no problem for them politically.

                Ditto voting. The anti-democratic voting laws currently being passed in Republican held states will be contested. And having a conservative bench significantly increases the likelihood of people (mostly of color) being disinfranchised by the judiciary.

                So, summing up – laws like this make it far easier for Republicans to trash our democracy and make us a minority ruled oligarchy.

                Do you just find that interesting?Report

              • Pinky in reply to Philip H says:

                Your comment? No. I could have guessed your analysis, except the part about Obama putting conservatives on the courts. I have to wonder if that’s a typo or if you really think it happened.Report

        • Michael Cain in reply to Philip H says:

          Particularly interesting in a state where judges are selected by partisan election.Report

      • Oscar Gordon in reply to Pinky says:

        IANAL, but here are the standards:
        https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/legal-standards-proof.html

        IMHO, overturning an election should require more evidence than what Judge Judy might find acceptable.

        ETA: The “Hold my beer” bit is in reference to how likely this kind of crap is to blow up in their faces. If TX is OK with a lower standard to prove fraud, then other states can be as well. What a fun world we will live in if every election winds up in various courts for months at a time.Report

      • Mike Schilling in reply to Pinky says:

        This allows e.g. technical errors (or “errors”) in the rules for mail-in ballots to invalidate elections. Which was exactly what Texas’s federal lawsuit was about.Report

    • Philip H in reply to Oscar Gordon says:

      When it serves their own power seeking interests – sure. When it actually serves the public interest – not so much.Report

    • It was Texas that sued in federal court to overturn the elections in four other states (though 18 other state attorneys general filed motions of support, so the rot isn’t contained), so that ship has sailed.Report

      • JS in reply to Mike Schilling says:

        Hilariously, Texas was doing so because it claimed “judge-ordered changes to election law” violated the Constitution.

        Texas, in which the State GOP had about two dozen active lawsuits prior to the election trying to force changes in election law because county election officials were doing things they didn’t like.Report

  3. LF4 and LF7 — The legacy of Trump is that Republicans no longer even claim to believe in objective truth.Report

    • Chip Daniels in reply to Mike Schilling says:

      I think this is about right.

      He demonstrated that the veil of respectability that Bush and Romney wore was unnecessary, and even a hindrance.
      All the soft coded language, the performative displays of respect for laws and norms and objective truth…all that could safely be dropped and the raw authoritarian id of white grievance be exposed and naked and the base would go wild.Report

      • Marchmaine in reply to Chip Daniels says:

        I’m nodding along to: “the performative displays of respect for laws and norms and objective truth…all that could safely be dropped”

        and then I get to: “the raw authoritarian id of white grievance be exposed and naked and the base would go wild.”

        And I just see 4 more years.Report

  4. LF3 — Why assume that a Trump administration action that reduced immigration levels for non-whites.was unintended?Report

  5. Pinky says:

    LF3 – On what basis can we treat Hong Kong as a separate country? I understand the benefits of doing so, but how do we get there intellectually?Report

    • Brent F in reply to Pinky says:

      I understand they used to treat them as a seperate country for good reasons an stopped this year also for good reasons.

      I don’t think it follows that they should revert to the old mechanisms under the circumstances, that calls for a new way to favour Hong Kongers.Report

  6. Kazzy says:

    “But we should not stop there: immigration law should put American values in the forefront.”

    What does this actually mean? We favor immigrants from non-socialist countries over those from socialist countries? What if folks from China want to immigrate here to escape socialism?

    Or do we want to apply some sort of value-based litmus test to immigrant, to ensure they have sufficiently American values? How would that work in practice? Wouldn’t country of origin be irrelevant than?Report

    • Chip Daniels in reply to Kazzy says:

      The entire history of America from 1619 onward is a neverending struggle to determine this very question: What are the values that America stands for?
      How many of the people who reside in America are actually Americans, versus something lesser?
      Whose lives matter, and whose lives don’t?Report

    • Mike Schilling in reply to Kazzy says:

      If you go to the OP, you’ll see that his specific proposal is to make it easier for people from communist countries to immigrate, because his idea of American values includes helping the oppressed.

      Note that the Bulwark is explicitly never-Trump, so their values are not those of the GOP as a whole.Report