I am a Sufi.
Perhaps you will have heard of dervishes?
The students are NOT agitating for democracy. They want the regime to follow the rule of Islamic law in an Islamic republic.
George Bush made democracy a dirty word in MENA.
Well frankly I find James' sophisto snarkery about people dying for their rights just as unappealling as Reihan's tortured (heh) attempt at milking laffs out of anarchy evangelist and insane clown Glenn Beck's inspirational relationship with rightwing extremists.
we do claim to be a democracy? where?
I was paraphrasing Plato actually...something he said in The Republic. Here's what Mousavi says
If the large volume of cheating and vote rigging, which has set fire to the hays of people’s anger, is expressed as the evidence of fairness, the republican nature of the state will be killed and in practice, the ideology that Islam and Republicanism are incompatible will be proven.
You see...I still catch the whiff of Big-White-Bwana memetics here...the idea that the infinite superiority of Judeoxian "democracy" is what these small brown heathen muslim people really need....they just don't know it.
What people, most especially people on the right seem absolutely incapable of understanding is that Iran is a successful theocracy. The conflict is between two competingversions of al-Islam. Democracy simply doesn't enter into it.
Even if the the election is rerolled, and Mousavi becomes president, even if the Assembly of Experts installs Sayeed Montazeri in Khameneini's place, Iran will still be a theocracy.
It is simply not our business.
We are done meddling.
No Will.....anything that Obama says that can be percieved as support for the greens will harm them. The seems incapable of understanding that this an INTERNAL muslim conflict in a THEOCRACY. This is not a revolution against al-Islam, but a reform of al-Islam.
So any bullshytt statement that Obama supports the greens can be cast as anti-Islam. Islam is guarantee of the peoples rights in a theocracy.
The right has been pithed by years of islamophobic frothers that believe the cartoon construct of fundie-jihaadi Islam pimped by the axis of idiots-- Steyn, VDH, Malkin, etc.
What a bitter pill for the conservatives.
Free market capitalism revealed as survival of the greediest, our foreign policy exposed as a recruitment bonus for the jihaadi factory, prolife terrorists and neonazis embedded in the rightside.
You should fold your tents and fade away.......you are too stupid to survive.
Dont be a retard Will.
If Khameini and Nejad can stick the great satan onto Mousavi and the greens they are done. Obama is doing exactly the right thing.
Saying there was no difference in american policy between Najad and Mousavi was the greatest counter propaganda gift he could give the greens.
We aren't going to meddle anymore. tant pis for the neocons.
I am a technodroid Bob.
I would loathe that person.
I made a twitter account and DM'd a proxy id to someone distributing unblocked accounts to Iranian students. A lot of young american technodroids have done that.
If the citizens in NK had cells and knew how to use them, how long could the Hermit Kingdom stand?
No Jaybird....the chinese population is fungeable. They could whack 2500 students and wound 20,000 and get away with it.
They had spares.
And the chinese didn't have realtime cyber propaganda.....and they didn't have a state religion.
Khameini made it clear that there will be blood....that is very dangerous for him I think. The Assembly of Experts can remove Khameini. If he starts to slaughter Iranian citizens in the streets I think they will. That is going against Islam.
The army and the police may intervene to stop the militias.
I stayed up to watch the speech last speech last night......there were absolutely no women in the crowd of bussed in fundies.
I put the success of the greens at 75%.
The side without good looking protest babes can never win.
;)
More seriously, the side without mothers and daughters and wives cannot win in the long run. Women have invisible power.
Also the fundies complain they have no voice....they dont have cells or computers, they don't know how to use the interwebs or twitter.
They resent this......it is like conservatives complaigning about media bias.
Do you kno what is fascinating Jaybird?
The conflict in Iran right now is not about a "free westernized student culture" attempting to throw the oppressive yoke of al-Islam.....it is about two competing visions of Islam. Nejad's fundies are the near perfect analog of conservatives in the US (except for that Israel thingy)....they are rural, less educated, lowtech, fanatical promotors of "virtue", socially conservative. The Greens are the analog of US liberals-- socially progressive, technologized, educated, urban, young.
I wonder if most cultures segregate this way?
If we’re talking about your mores and traditions, we’re talking about superstitious crap that we outgrew more than a generation ago yet is kept around because the powerful find it a useful social tool with which to jerk around weaker stupider people who don’t know any better.
Teacher: Earth-That-Was could no longer sustain our numbers, we were so many. We found a new solar system, dozens of planets and hundreds of moons. Each one terraformed, a process taking decades, to support human life, to be new Earths. The Central Planets formed the Alliance. Ruled by an interplanetary parliament, the Alliance was a beacon of civilization. The savage outer planets were not so enlightened and refused Alliance control. The war was devastating, but the Alliance's victory over the Independents ensured a safer universe. And now everyone can enjoy the comfort and enlightenment of our civilization.
Young River: People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome.
And yes, for domestic policy too.
Get out of bedrooms and schools. Stop trying to impose your mores and traditions on culture.
You will fail anyways.
It is just a matter of time.
Chris_kun, you must admit that this is not the rebellion of westernized college students against Islamic authority.
This is the contest of two different visions of al-Islam.
And.....imho Qom will decide the outcome.
On “whatever you can come up with”
But what is your duty to these people?
I say.....let them burn.
On “Some Home Truths About the Latest Iranian Revolution”
I am a Sufi.
Perhaps you will have heard of dervishes?
The students are NOT agitating for democracy. They want the regime to follow the rule of Islamic law in an Islamic republic.
George Bush made democracy a dirty word in MENA.
"
One more thought before I go clubbing.
George Bush made democracy a dirty word.
Discuss among yourselves.
On “whatever you can come up with”
Reihan here.
"
Well frankly I find James' sophisto snarkery about people dying for their rights just as unappealling as Reihan's tortured (heh) attempt at milking laffs out of anarchy evangelist and insane clown Glenn Beck's inspirational relationship with rightwing extremists.
On “Some Home Truths About the Latest Iranian Revolution”
we do claim to be a democracy? where?
I was paraphrasing Plato actually...something he said in The Republic.
Here's what Mousavi says
You see...I still catch the whiff of Big-White-Bwana memetics here...the idea that the infinite superiority of Judeoxian "democracy" is what these small brown
heathenmuslim people really need....they just don't know it."
Also Michael, Iran is an Islamic Republic.
A democracy is the perversion of a republic, right?
"
What people, most especially people on the right seem absolutely incapable of understanding is that Iran is a successful theocracy. The conflict is between two competingversions of al-Islam. Democracy simply doesn't enter into it.
Even if the the election is rerolled, and Mousavi becomes president, even if the Assembly of Experts installs Sayeed Montazeri in Khameneini's place, Iran will still be a theocracy.
It is simply not our business.
We are done meddling.
"
No. It is a perfectly STUPID approach. Do you have anything BUT stupid approaches anymore?
"
The right seems incapable......of many things.
"
No Will.....anything that Obama says that can be percieved as support for the greens will harm them. The seems incapable of understanding that this an INTERNAL muslim conflict in a THEOCRACY. This is not a revolution against al-Islam, but a reform of al-Islam.
So any bullshytt statement that Obama supports the greens can be cast as anti-Islam. Islam is guarantee of the peoples rights in a theocracy.
The right has been pithed by years of islamophobic frothers that believe the cartoon construct of fundie-jihaadi Islam pimped by the axis of idiots-- Steyn, VDH, Malkin, etc.
"
What a bitter pill for the conservatives.
Free market capitalism revealed as survival of the greediest, our foreign policy exposed as a recruitment bonus for the jihaadi factory, prolife terrorists and neonazis embedded in the rightside.
You should fold your tents and fade away.......you are too stupid to survive.
"
Dont be a retard Will.
If Khameini and Nejad can stick the great satan onto Mousavi and the greens they are done. Obama is doing exactly the right thing.
Saying there was no difference in american policy between Najad and Mousavi was the greatest counter propaganda gift he could give the greens.
We aren't going to meddle anymore.
tant pis for the neocons.
On “why I am not a neoconservative”
I am a technodroid Bob.
I would loathe that person.
I made a twitter account and DM'd a proxy id to someone distributing unblocked accounts to Iranian students. A lot of young american technodroids have done that.
If the citizens in NK had cells and knew how to use them, how long could the Hermit Kingdom stand?
On “The Iranian Reformers Have Won: Now Comes the Danger”
No Jaybird....the chinese population is fungeable. They could whack 2500 students and wound 20,000 and get away with it.
They had spares.
And the chinese didn't have realtime cyber propaganda.....and they didn't have a state religion.
Khameini made it clear that there will be blood....that is very dangerous for him I think. The Assembly of Experts can remove Khameini. If he starts to slaughter Iranian citizens in the streets I think they will. That is going against Islam.
The army and the police may intervene to stop the militias.
I stayed up to watch the speech last speech last night......there were absolutely no women in the crowd of bussed in fundies.
I put the success of the greens at 75%.
The side without good looking protest babes can never win.
;)
More seriously, the side without mothers and daughters and wives cannot win in the long run. Women have invisible power.
On “why I am not a neoconservative”
Also the fundies complain they have no voice....they dont have cells or computers, they don't know how to use the interwebs or twitter.
They resent this......it is like conservatives complaigning about media bias.
"
Do you kno what is fascinating Jaybird?
The conflict in Iran right now is not about a "free westernized student culture" attempting to throw the oppressive yoke of al-Islam.....it is about two competing visions of Islam. Nejad's fundies are the near perfect analog of conservatives in the US (except for that Israel thingy)....they are rural, less educated, lowtech, fanatical promotors of "virtue", socially conservative. The Greens are the analog of US liberals-- socially progressive, technologized, educated, urban, young.
I wonder if most cultures segregate this way?
"
If we’re talking about your mores and traditions, we’re talking about superstitious crap that we outgrew more than a generation ago yet is kept around because the powerful find it a useful social tool with which to jerk around
weakerstupider people who don’t know any better."
I said this before, but it is worth repeating.
And yes, for domestic policy too.
Get out of bedrooms and schools. Stop trying to impose your mores and traditions on culture.
You will fail anyways.
It is just a matter of time.
On “The Role of Shia Theology in The Revolt”
should I just give up?
not my way.
Qom will decide
"
i wish i could delete. sry.
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/18/world/middleeast/18clerics.html?_r=1&ref=world"<Qom will decide.
"
ugg
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/18/world/middleeast/18clerics.html?_r=1&ref=world<Qom will decide.
"
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/18/world/middleeast/18clerics.html?_r=1&ref=world<Qom will decide.</a.
"
Chris_kun, you must admit that this is not the rebellion of westernized college students against Islamic authority.
This is the contest of two different visions of al-Islam.
And.....imho Qom will decide the outcome.
"
Chris_kun, how about this analogy?
Green Revolution Islam is like MLK Christianity.
Jihaadi-fundie Islam is like KKK Christianity.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.