26 thoughts on “Welcome to the Quagmire

    1. Yeah, I haven’t seen any yet.

      Funniest I saw was John Podheretz owning the maximalist Neo-Con a**hole blogger mantle saying, ‘WTF’

      I mean, you can steelman Tariffs and argue whether he’s using his threat to get real or fake concessions… but so far I haven’t seen anyone steelman the fallback position…

      … just pictures of Suzie Wiles losing her mind.

      But, I’m sure there are people working on retconning a plan as we speak.Report

      1. Here’s my *guess* at how they might reframe it.

        US becomes a third-party (perhaps with other parties) guarantor of a ‘population exchange’ plan where the US commits XX(X) $Bs for relocation, resettlement and rebuild. Gaza become a multi-party re-development zone with, say, Saudis, Qatar, Egypt, etc.

        Evan that would be a WTF proposal – especially if you announced it without the Saudis, Qatari, Egyptians, etc. already on-board — which they aren’t.

        So, yeah, interesting to see how this morphs.

        Possibly we frame it as the Steel Dock recovery act… and just never leave. 🙂Report

      2. There are a handful of fallback plans that make sense to me…

        1. Ethnic Cleansing and give Gaza to Israel. “From the River to the Sea! Well, the sea part is now covered.”

        I mean, hey. Sometimes you’ve got a really unpleasant religious minority in your midst and the best solution long-term is to get rid of them.

        2. Okay, you can stay… but, seriously, this is the last of the last chances. Calm the hell down, quit shooting rockets, and, for God’s sake, quit shooting your critics in the middle of the damned street.

        3. Oh, you don’t like *MY* solution? Come up with your own that won’t make me say “yeah, I prefer waterfront real estate to this” and will continue to not make me say that.

        But each of those involves other people acting in their own perceived best interest and so I can’t imagine that anyone in the region will do that of their own volition.Report

        1. I mean Egypt and Jordan really really really won’t take the Gazan population in voluntarily. Jordan already suffered one regime threatening event due to Palestinian populations in their midst and Egypt is not exactly a stable government either to say nothing of how the Jordanians and Egyptian populations would absolutely hate it.

          I don’t think this is something Trump could cajole or browbeat either state into doing. It’d be like offering someone escalating dollar amounts to slit their own throat- there’s not really a dollar amount that would do it.

          I mean, the only scheme I could see potentially working is the Israeli’s just start scooping up Gazans and ship them into Syria- the Syrian state is so nascent, weak and unstable they probably couldn’t stop them. It’d be expensive, difficult, a humanitarian fiasco and morally abhorrent but logistically I suppose in theory they could do it.Report

          1. I think the most the US could “give” (not sure what else to call it) is to officially tell Israel they have a totally free hand and no matter what they do, no matter how bad it is, there will be no repercussions from the US, no matter what anyone else in the region does or has to say about it.

            Maybe that’s what this message really is. ‘Kill them all or drive them out, do whatever you want, we don’t care.’Report

            1. Isn’t that currently the case, unless you count pro forma statements from Biden about how bad Israel’s behavior was that were roundly ignored by everyone?Report

              1. Probably not. Whatever was said in public the Israeli’s have had enough uncertainty about where the Americans limits were to be cautious about a lot of things. Even under Trumps previous term Trumps grasp of foreign policy was tenuous enough, and enough old GOP hands were around enough that the Israeli’s weren’t certain if they had a blank slate.Report

          2. Oh, yeah. I know it’s always weird to think about how people in other parts of the world have long memories, but, apparently, Jordan and Egypt both have long memories.

            Maybe we could explain to Jordan that Hamas has nothing to do with the PLO.Report

              1. Well they’d say “We agree, which is why we don’t want em.” Hamas had absolutely nothing to do with the Jordanian civil war. Hamas wasn’t founded until 1987 and the Jordanian civil war was in 1970.Report

    2. Well the neocons mostly have been (rightfully) driven from the GOP due to Bush’s adventures in the middle east. I am utterly delighted at the irony that Trump, who made his bones eviscerating Bush and the neocons fish ups, is talking about prancing off down the exact same path.

      Trump must REALLY believe that Bibi held off on resolving the Gazan conflict to help out Trumps election chances* if he’s grateful enough to even talk about doing something like this. Then again he did just talk to Bibi so that could simply be who is pulling his strings at the moment.

      I do not, however, see how Trump could pull off going into Gaza without congressional buy in. It’d be expensive as fish.

      *I’m agnostic on whether Bibi actually did but I do believe that Bibi is easily wily enough to suggest as much in private to Trump and that Trump is a big enough idiot to believe it.Report

  1. Even Trump’s team seems to be dismayed by this announcement. His chief of staff went bug-eyed at the press conference. This is most likely Trump prattling but this is Trump so he might be dumb enough to attempt and it gives a lot of people who really hate Israel another reason to make wild accusations, so everybody is going made about it despite it making no sense.

    First, where would Israel send the Palestinians? Second, even if they could ethnically cleanse Gaza, why would they hand it over to the United States? During the early days of the Israel-Hamas War, Pro-Palestinian Westerners were arguing that there are going to be at least a million dead Palestinians at the end of it unless Israel is stopped right now. That did not happen. It did not even come close to happening but the people who made these accusations aren’t retracting because being rhetorically correct is more important than being factually correct and they really just want to hate Israel.Report

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *