Multiple Wildfires Rip Through Los Angeles Amid Historic Winds

Andrew Donaldson

Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has been the Managing Editor of Ordinary Times since 2018, is a widely published opinion writer, and appears in media, radio, and occasionally as a talking head on TV. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter@four4thefire. Andrew is the host of Heard Tell podcast. Subscribe to Andrew'sHeard Tell Substack for free here:

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49 Responses

  1. Philip H
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    says:

    Aside from the very real danger to humans here, there’s another story that will get buried for months but is critical to how this plays out – the same major insurers who have dumped homeowners in Florida because if hurricane risks have also dumped California homeowners due to fire risk. That’s an economic disaster waiting to compound the wildfire damage.Report

    • North in reply to Philip H
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      says:

      If you can’t offer a policy at a price that people will buy and cover the losses, you don’t offer a policy. As in Florida, so in California.Report

      • Philip H in reply to North
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        says:

        They could do just that but it would result in a slight drop in year over year profits, which is what they see as their fiduciary responsibility. No just returning a profit, but returning maximum profit every quarter and thus every year. Because eventually if they follow the road they are on they won’t exist as an industry.Report

        • North in reply to Philip H
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          says:

          If by “do just that” you mean offer a policy that charges a premium that doesn’t cover their losses and pass those losses on to other customers in safer locales by way of higher premiums (and eventually get out competed by insurance companies that don’t and go out of business) or go out of business through rank insolvency. I… uh… kind of see why the insurance companies are electing to not “do just that”. They don’t have “subsidize people to live in flooding and forest fire prone locations” in their mandate nor do I think they should do so. Nor do I think should we do so.Report

  2. Jaybird
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    says:

    Remember when Texas had a horrible winter and Ted Cruz immediately got on a plane to Mexico?

    Mayor Bass is off in Ghana.Report

    • Philip H in reply to Jaybird
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      says:

      1) She was already out of the country as part of an official delegation of US officials attending the inauguration of Ghana’s President. Which means she didn’t flee the disaster as it was unfolding.

      2) She is apparently headed back and will be in LA shortly if she isn’t already.

      These things are not the same, and pointing them out as if they were looks trollish.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to Jaybird
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      says:

      Sky News peppered Mayor Bass as she returned to the US.

      Report

      • Jaybird in reply to Jaybird
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        says:

        Someone dug this one up:

        Report

      • Chris in reply to Jaybird
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        says:

        Had to cut the fire budget to fund the cops (who saw over $100 million added to their budget in the same budget cycle), because likely the same folks upset that she cut the fire budget have been screaming for more cops.

        You have two choices: live in a police state, or fund important city services. Pretty much everyone seems to be choosing the former these days. Los Angeles certainly did.Report

        • Jaybird in reply to Chris
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          says:

          That was the choice that California had in front of it?

          The only fungible money was between picking whether the money goes to the PD or the FD?

          Well, what did the FD do with the money in the last couple of years?Report

          • Chris in reply to Jaybird
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            says:

            They didn’t just cut the fire budget. The police require sacrifices from everyone.Report

            • Jaybird in reply to Chris
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              says:

              I heard that they took money from the high speed rail project. That’s why it’s not finished yet.Report

              • Jaybird in reply to Jaybird
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                says:

                More to the point, I think that even if the FD got the money instead of the PD, I don’t think that it would have used the money in a way that would have materially helped them deal with this fire.

                Sure, maybe they’d have hired a handful more people but how much of that budget would have gone to stuff like Community Outreach or Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion training?

                I imagine that the FD is not the department in charge of making sure that the hydrants are full of water.

                We can come up with some hypothetical things that the FD *MIGHT* have done with the money that could help with the problem today, but when we look at what the department actually did with the budget it actually had?

                I’m not seeing that more money would have helped, except possibly accidentally.Report

  3. North
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    says:

    Fruits of global warming and Cali’s decades of NIMBY housing policy. It’s gonna suck.Report

  4. Jaybird
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    says:

    Isaiah Taylor has a harrowing insight into one of the things that brought us here. In response to being asked if it’s true that California was sued to prevent controlled burning, he answers:

    Unfortunately yes. In 2007 the Sierra Club successfully sued the Forest Service to prevent them from creating a Categorical Exclusion (CE) to NEPA for controlled burns (the technical term is “fuel reduction”). The CE would have allowed the forest service to conduct burns without having to perform a full EIS (the median time for which is 3.5 years). See: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-9th-circuit/1175742.html

    John Muir project helped to claw back the full scope of Categorial Exclusions from the 2018 Omnibus Bill as well (though some easement did make it through).

    In 2021 the outgoing Trump BLM was served with the following notice of intent to sue by the Center for Biological Diversity for their fuel reduction plan in the Great Basin: https://biologicaldiversity.org/programs/public_lands/grazing/pdfs/Fuel-Breaks-Fuels-Reduction-NOI-Draft.pdf
    BLM backed away from the plan after the transition.

    These are specific cases, but the cumulative outcome is that CA state agencies don’t even try it because they know they’ll be sued.

    My thought was that the best time to have begun heading off this particular fire would have been in 2012.

    This is about something that was prevented from happening back in 2007.

    I’d be interested in hearing from one of our more environmentally-compassionate folks about whether this fire was greener than the controlled stuff would have been.Report

    • Slade the Leveller in reply to Jaybird
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      says:

      This was the outcome. The law triumphs over common sense, once again.

      “I cannot bring myself to believe that a Forest Service decision to cut brush and use controlled burns to reduce forest fire danger near urban areas is arbitrary and capricious.   And I cannot quite bring myself to believe that the categorical exclusion in this case, covering less than one half of one percent of federal land, will have a cumulative impact on our environment requiring years more research, analysis and report writing before we do anything to protect people from forest fires.   As a matter of common sense, cutting brush and using controlled burns on parcels no larger than 1,000 acres and 4,000 acres respectively seems most likely to have the cumulative impact of reducing the catastrophic effect of forest fires on people.

      Nevertheless, the government’s brief does not point us to anything in the record that supports my intuitive view.   The best I can find in the record is some scattered bits that were written after the categorical exclusion was made, saying that the categorical exclusion is not expected to contribute to adverse cumulative impacts on sensitive wildlife species.   The briefs and record control, and the government has made no serious attempt to show us why the categorical exclusion was not arbitrary and capricious or that it gave the required “hard look” at the categorical exclusion before promulgating it.   A judge’s duty is to decide the case based on the law and the record, not his personal policy preference.   I am therefore compelled to concur.”Report

      • DensityDuck in reply to Slade the Leveller
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        says:

        A preview of Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo, in that courts are less likely to say that the government agency is Inherently Right And Correct because it’s The Government, that they actually have to do the work.

        Also interesting, from the “caselaw” linked resource, part III-B: “The Service erred by conducting the data call as a post-hoc rationale for its predetermined decision to promulgate the Fuels CE…”

        Which seems a bit of “sauce for the goose” here, because my experience with regulatory review submissions is the same thing from the other side; once you’ve submitted something for regulatory review, that submission is what gets reviewed, and you’re not allowed to introduce new information or corrections except where requested by the reviewer. So if your submission lacks some key safety analysis and is denied on that basis, you have to start over again, you don’t get to say “oh well we actually did that analysis and here’s the result so it’s okay now right?”

        And, y’know. It seems like the court’s criticism is “you did a crappy job of your paperwork because you figured it would be rubber-stamped, and we don’t consider that appropriate; do better”. Which is not prima facie a bad attitude to take about this stuff. And yeah, the Sierra Club probably did not have as its goal the assurance of rigorous review and planning, but if the Forest Service had done more than vague handwaving the court likely would have approved the plan.Report

    • Damon in reply to Jaybird
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      says:

      I also seem to recall a new article on the state utility DEFERING miniatous on powerlines and instead giving it to shareholders, which, when those lines sag / fail start fires. Not sure if that issue was resolved or if it’s still being battled in the courts.Report

  5. Burt Likko
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    says:

    A grim read and zero comfort to people who have been displaced, but Mike Davis’s Ecology of Fear from the dark ages of 1998 predicted exactly this and offers good insight into how fuel to power these fires accumulates and how the pressure of land development wins out over knowledgeable stewardship of the land.Report

  6. Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    This is one of the things that needs to be fixed.

    It strikes me as trivially true that the environmental harms that come from a controlled burn are smaller than the environmental harms that come from a wildfire.

    Report

  7. Saul Degraw
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    says:

    Trump has decided in infinite predictability to use the fires to launch against NewsomReport

    • Jaybird in reply to Saul Degraw
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      says:

      Can I attack the mayor?

      The Mayor is a Democrat, so… no.

      Can I attack the Governor?

      The Governor is a Democrat, so… no.

      Can I attack the State Government?

      The State Government is overwhelmingly Democrats, so… no.

      Can I attack the President of the US?

      The President of the US is a Democrat, so… no.

      What about the President-elect?

      *DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*DING*Report

      • Saul Degraw in reply to Jaybird
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        says:

        Unfortunately no one has convinced you that your trolling is not quite as clever or convincing as you think it isReport

        • Jaybird in reply to Saul Degraw
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          says:

          How transparent do you think attempting to make these LA fires about Donald Trump is?

          I am pretty sure that you think that partisan dems will nod their heads.
          I am pretty sure that you think that partisan repubs will sputter in outrage.

          What I can’t wrap my head around is that your take is that swings will agree that it’s about Trump rather than about the people who actually have their hands on the steering wheel at the moment the Palisades burned down.

          Do you really think that they’ll agree with you?

          Because I don’t think they will. I think they’ll ask “how in the hell is this about Trump?”Report

  8. Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    Stuff that seems to be coming out now:

    No new reservoirs have been built in California for the last ten years.
    The fire hydrants in many parts of LA are dry. There’s no water to fight the fires there.
    The LAFD made a big deal out of diversity pushes in the last year or so.
    The LA Fire Chief cut the Fire Department budget last year by about 17 Million bucks.
    There are a handful of people out there, including both Trump and Joe Rogan, warning California that they’re doing a horrible job when it comes to fire prevention.
    Interviews with leadership on the ground are pretty much awful. It’s not like there’s a whole lot you can do to make things better, but there are a handful of things you can do to definitely make things worse and they’re nailing the latter.

    This is a catastrophic failure, top to bottom.Report

    • Michael Cain in reply to Jaybird
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      says:

      No new reservoirs have been built in California for the last ten years.

      A dam does no good if there’s no water available to store in it. Like all of the western states, California’s water is rather grossly oversubscribed.

      There are two dam projects underway in northern Colorado. One will raise an existing dam, the other will build an entirely new dam. Both will take many years to fill once built because the only water that can be used is “surplus”, available only in very wet years.Report

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