Musk vs Gore

Photo by Bob McNeelyWhite House Photograph Office, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Government spending is out of control. Debt is rising. Markets are spooked. Federal agencies are rife with dyfunction. In an effort to address this, the President puts together a task force to eliminate waste, fraud and abuse, downsize the federal government and make it serve the needs of Americans better.
Am I talking about DOGE? No, I’m jumping in the Wayback Machine and talking about the National Partnership for Reinventing Government (NPR), a program instituted by President Clinton and managed by Vice-President Al Gore. From wikipedia:
During its five years, it catalyzed significant changes in the way the federal government operates, including the elimination of over 100 programs, the elimination of over 250,000 federal jobs, the consolidation of over 800 agencies, and the transfer of institutional knowledge to contractors. NPR introduced the use of performance measurements and customer satisfaction surveys, and encouraged the use of technology including the Internet. NPR is recognized as a success and had a lasting impact according to government officials who worked on or were influenced by it under the Bill Clinton and George W. Bush administrations.
NPR put together an extremely effective process for streamlining government. Its initial proposals were developed after six months of intense consultation with almost every agency in the federal government. The cuts were implemented by a combination of internal department changes and Congressional legislation. The latter proved to be the limiting factor: Congress refused many of the recommended cuts to programs. Had they acted on more of NPR’s recommendations, the savings would have been even greater.
NPR was not the first organization designed to cut government waste. FDR has the Brownlow Committee; Truman had the Hoover Commission; Reagan had the Grace Commission. All of them managed to streamline government and cut spending although all fell well short of their goals thanks to Congress hedging on spending cuts.
I bring this up to demonstrate that the concept of President Musk’s DOGE is not novel. We’ve done this before and we’ve done it effectively. But the contrast between previous efforts to streamline the government and the goat rope that is DOGE could not be starker.
In contrast to NPR, DOGE is not working closely with each federal department to identify wasteful spending; instead it is dispatching a Scooby Doo gang of teenage hacker miscreants to pour through government data. As a result, it is firing critical personnel then having to hire them back, making false claims about programs because it can’t be bothered to get the details right and making insane claims of fraud that turn out not to be true:
Over the past few days, President Donald Trump and billionaire adviser Elon Musk have said on social media and in press briefings that people who are 100, 200 and even 300 years old are improperly getting benefits — a “HUGE problem,” Musk wrote, as his Department of Government Efficiency digs into federal agencies to root out waste, fraud and abuse.
…
Part of the confusion comes from Social Security’s software system based on the COBOL programming language, which has a lack of date type. This means that some entries with missing or incomplete birthdates will default to a reference point of more than 150 years ago. The news organization WIRED first reported on the use of COBOL programming language at the Social Security Administration.
…
A July 2023 Social Security OIG report states that “almost none of the numberholders discussed in the report currently receive SSA payments.” And, as of September 2015, the agency automatically stops payments to people who are older than 115 years old.
In short, nothing in this claim is remotely true and a two-minute phone call to someone within the Social Security Administration would have confirmed this. In fact, if Elon had bothered to look at his own data, he would have seen that just under 100,000 people over the age of 100 receive Social Security benefits. Which is pretty close to the estimated 101,000 centenarians currently living in the United States.
DOGE has also talked about going after Medicare and Medicaid fraud. This is, in fact, an area where tens of billions could be saved. The problem, as our own Em Carpenter pointed out, is that we already have agencies tasked with identifying Medicare and Medicaid fraud. They’re ignoring the Medicaid Fraud Control Units and thus throwing away massive amounts of real expertise.
That is the common thread in all this chaos: DOGE is making unforced errors because they are failing to consult with people who actually know how the government works. As Mike Masnick points out:
It’s worth noting that the US government already has established, professional watchdogs with actual expertise in tracking down waste, fraud, and abuse: the Inspectors General (whom Trump illegally removed upon taking office) and the Government Accountability Office. These are people who know how to follow the money, understand federal contracting rules, and can tell the difference between waste and, you know, normal government operations. (A distinction that seems to elude the DOGE crew.)
DOGE seems determined to ignore these existing competent oversight bodies, perhaps because their methodical, fact-based approach doesn’t generate enough social media buzz with which to fluff Musk’s ego.
The many agencies that try to stamp out fraud could use a helping hand. DOGE could be bringing in new innovative tools to make their jobs easier and more effective. Instead, it is trying to reinvent the wheel with popsicle sticks and getting basic details wrong. And because they don’t know what they are doing, normal government expenditures start to look like fraud.
Even on the rare occasions DOGE gets the details right, they are still usually wrong. DOGE often conflates “things Elon doesn’t like” with “waste” and cuts it, causing chaos. It went after USAID with a sledgehammer, causing immense suffering for USAID workers abruptly abandoned in foreign countries. Just to cite one area of need, they closed PEPFAR clinics, causing thousands of babies to be needlessly born with HIV infections that could have been prevented.
How exactly is this serving the taxpayer?
Moreover, many of the savings they are claiming are illusory. Because DOGE is bypassing Congress and running roughshod over federal employment laws, there has been an explosion of lawsuits.1 Fighting these lawsuits costs money and DOGE is unlikely to win all or even most of them. So some of these “spending cuts” are going to be reversed.2
All in all, DOGE is claiming to have saved the taxpayers $55 billion, which would be a nice chunk of change.3 But one of the lessons the Trump people have learned is that when you lie to the American people, you don’t actually need a veneer of plausibility to your lie. Just make something up out of whole cloth and let the commentariat do the rest.
DOGE’s actual savings, assuming they even exist, are closer to $8 billion, with much of that likely to vanish. Only $16 billion is actually itemized and $8 billion of that is because a contract was erroneously listed as “billion” instead of “million”. Even then, there are shenanigans such as counting contracts that have already ended as “savings”.
Even if that $55 billion number plucked from the ether were real, it can be contrasted against the Republican budget plan which includes $400 billion in new spending, $4.5 trillion in tax cuts and, to balance it out I guess, $1 trillion in cuts to Medicaid and SNAP.
Party of fiscal responsibility!
DOGE is such a disaster, I have come around to belief that cutting government spending isn’t its actual purpose. Consider:
- DOGE is granting Musk unprecedented access to personal, business and financial information. This information is worth billions.
- DOGE has heavily targeted agencies with which Musks’s businesses are having ongoing legal fights.
- While it may not be cutting spending, it has a propaganda firehose through Twitter to make exaggerated claims of success, claims that are being dutifully echoed by Right Wing grifters.
- Almost all the “waste” it is identifying are MAGA bete noires: foreign aid, public health, science, “DEI”, CFPB, etc.
In short, nothing I’m seeing strikes me as a serious effort to cut government spending. If that were the case, DOGE would have gone silent for six months, pulled in experts from every field, learned from the existing watchdogs and then presented Congress with a massive list of programs to cut. It would have done what NPR did, only with a new suite of sophisticated tools.
Instead, we have a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. Big splashy tweets to convince the public that DOGE is saving massive amounts of money while Elon and his droogs make off with a king’s ransom worth of financial data. And … that seems to be what the MAGA base want. So I expect it to be touted as a success for the next four years despite its manifest failure.
- The legal firestorm may be intended. Many within this Administration, including Christian Nationalist OMB director Vought, think the President should be able to ignore Congress on spending and simply “impound” money he doesn’t want to spend. The precedent of Clinton v. New York is pretty clear on this but SCOTUS has been willing to contort the law, the Constitution and their own precedent to service Trump, so who knows how that will go.
- What Elon is doing reminds me of another Clinton-era commission — Hillary Clinton’s healthcare task force. Its doings were kept in such secrecy that the public didn’t even know who was on it. Many lawsuits and Congressional hearings later, it presented a healthcare reform plan that crashed and burned faster than the Chiefs’ offensive line. It was such a fiasco that I know people who think it was deliberately botched to delay healthcare reform for over a decade.
- Although they absurdly talking about issuing checks to the taxpayers for several thousand dollars for this savings which (a) is bad math; and (b) defeats the supposed purpose of reducing the deficit.
Almost all the “waste” it is identifying are MAGA bete noires: foreign aid, public health, science, “DEI”, CFPB, etc.
The DEI thing is where the teeth are going to be and every attempt on the part of the various departments to route around it are going to result in DOGE defenders pointing out how important this actually was.
There have been a number of times where the Diversity Department was quickly renamed in the middle of the night to “Wellness” or some crap like that and various hall monitors have cheerfully posted screenshots saying “they’re trying to pull a fast one!”
There was a lot of overreach and a lot of stupid things that were said and done on the record.
And that overreach has resulted in the pendulum swinging back.
One other thing that I’ve seen a handful of times is the complaint that the probationary people are getting fired and it’s not just the people who have been there two and a half weeks, it’s the people who have recently gotten promoted because they did a good job.
“The people who are doing a good job are the people you should *WANT* to keep!” is something I’ve heard more than once.
Well… the people who are doing a bad job are impossible to fire.
Personally, I think that the bad job people should be fired but…Report
No one is impossible to fire in the federal system. It happens routinely even if the numbers are small. Like everything g else it’s a process and as long as it’s followed it’s actually pretty effective. It just takes time and business people refuse to take time.Report
This is actual gibberish.
DEI programs make up almost _no_ amount of the budget, and a huge chunk of it is just normal HR stuff that has to be done anyway.
The reason that it is ‘important’ that they are being cut is that the cutting of it is accompanied by _overtly bigoted decisions_. It is, to use a word, ‘signalling’, and the thing is it singalling is that ‘white straight men are back in charge’.
Ah, clever plan, if you don’t actually link to anything, no one will point out how getting you’re your news from liars on Facebook.
…you’re okay with people who are doing a good job and who just got promoted being fired.
I guess that’s how your sentence is supposed to end?Report
Let me rephrase it, then.
Cutting out the DEI stuff is the stuff that will make the most noise. There will be various departments that will try to route around it by hiding that it was the DEI office the week prior.
For example, here’s an article from The Denver Post: University of Colorado renames DEI office to ‘Office of Collaboration’
This will get the DOGE fans to say “see how important it was that we get rid of this? Look at how sneaky they are!”
From the article I linked to above:
Some say that The Denver Post is a Nazi newspaper for Nazis. Other call it “Commie fishwrap”.
I can only link to it and ask you to decide for yourself if it is Facebook quality or higher.
I guess that’s how your sentence is supposed to end?
“Something needs to be done. This is something.”Report
We in a discussion about Musk slashing the Federal government. Why are you talking about the University of Colorado, and why are you using the University of Colorado as an example of a department?
Anyway, no, that’s not an attempt to ‘hide’. As far as I know, this is the only part of anything Trump has done that applies to colleges:
Sec. 5. Other Actions. Within 120 days of this order, the Attorney General and the Secretary of Education shall jointly issue guidance to all State and local educational agencies that receive Federal funds, as well as all institutions of higher education that receive Federal grants or participate in the Federal student loan assistance program under Title IV of the Higher Education Act, 20 U.S.C. 1070 et seq., regarding the measures and practices required to comply with Students for Fair Admissions, Inc. v. President and Fellows of Harvard College, 600 U.S. 181 (2023).
Those guidelines do not appear to have been issued yet.
This college has apparently decided that the Department of Education will likely have a problem with the name, at minimum, so has preemptively changed it.
Why do you think this is an attempt to ‘hide’?
Do you think the college should assume the guidelines are going to be ‘anything that every had the name DEI’ should be removed? That the University of Colorado should just preemptively dismantle the entire department? That seems somewhat stupid.
Weren’t you one of the people complaining the Air Force, having been ordered to shut down their DEI training, removed a video of the Tuskegee Airmen that was shown in it, despite that clearly being part of the DEI training and covered by the order? You complained this was ‘mandatory compliance’.
But here, you’re complaining about a university, _which has not been given guidelines yet_, tries to get ahead of the guidelines in the vaguest way (It seems clear the term ‘DEI’ is a problem, at minimum.), and you have decided that this is ‘hiding’ something.
What you think the University of Colorado should have done at this point in time?Report
We in a discussion about Musk slashing the Federal government. Why are you talking about the University of Colorado, and why are you using the University of Colorado as an example of a department?
I thought it was broad enough to cover such things as “spending” but if you insist, I’ll limit future examples in this thread to stuff that has a .gov or .mil website.
This college has apparently decided that the Department of Education will likely have a problem with the name, at minimum, so has preemptively changed it.
Why do you think this is an attempt to ‘hide’?
If you don’t like the word “hide”, how’s “rebrand”?
Back in the early oughts, my managed services job was bought and sold and renamed a buncha times and I had to get up and go into a room and fill out paperwork multiple times but when the paperwork was done I’d get a new badge and go back to the same desk and do the same job as I did the day before.
In the same way, the exact same job being done by the DEI Office now being done by the Whole Employee Office would be an example of what I’m talking about.
Do you understand the phenomenon I’m talking about here?
What you think the University of Colorado should have done at this point in time?
Oh, I’m not paid well enough to come up with game plans for universities.
Hell, renaming the department and getting rid of the troublesome office nameplate and replacing it with a nameplate with different letters on it is probably the best play. “Maybe Trump will get impeached and we can just keep on keeping on and, let’s face it, DEI was getting to be a kind of thought-terminating cliché anyway so it’s for the best.”Report
You, now:
You, starting the thread:
You see that word ‘DOGE’ right there?
DOGE is the thing that exists in the Federal government that is going around doing things to the Federal government.
It is not an executive order telling the Department of Education to issue guidelines that have not actually been issued yet, and it certainly is not universities prepping for what they think it might be.
What is this conversation _even about_? What is the point you think you are making?
Yes, universities will stop using words like ‘diversity’ and ‘equity’ and ‘inclusion’, as Republicans have decided to war a word against them.
They are going to use other words that mean those things, like ‘collaboration’ means what was meant by ‘inclusion’, and ‘fairness’ means what was meant by ‘equity’.
As for diversity, I’m going to suggest they can just move to ‘intergration’, so as to make it clear what is actually being criticized, and the Trump administration can take the pro-segregation position.Report
If my experience of the cafeteria is any indication, it ain’t just the Trumpsters that are pro-segregation.Report
“What is this conversation _even about_? What is the point you think you are making?”
That all the various Really Rotten Things will be reverted as soon as someone finds out about them, except for DEI stuff which is all that Trump voters really cared about anyway?
That hardly seems like a controversial take or something that should trigger you.Report
DavidTC: …it is accompanied by _overtly bigoted decisions_…
It says a lot about the current debate that I can’t tell if “bigoted” means “treating people unequally” or if “bigoted” means “insisting on treating people equally”.
That last would mean, “no anti-whiteness training”. DEI has the rep of promoting the idea that whites are responsible for inequality because they’re white, inequality needs to be measured by outcomes, and whites need to shut up and accept the opinion of minorities on reality.Report
They just fired the only female four-star Naval Admiral, Lisa Franchetti, who, incidentally, was the only female officer at that level in the entire armed forces.
There was absolutely no attempt to even _give_ a justification for that one. Literally none.
With firing the head of the Coast Guard, Linda Fagan, they could at least claim she hadn’t cleaned up and fixed the scandal of her predeceaser fast enough, although there was no real evidence she wasn’t exactly that. And could make vague handwaves at ‘DEI’, although as the scandal was ‘A massive rape and hazing culture that was covered up’, I think doing things to stop ‘sexual harassment’ and treat sexual misconduct seriously seemed warranted as a response to that! But whatever.
But Admiral Franchetti had _absolutely_ nothing like that. She has made no large policy changes whatsoever in the year and an half she’s be in place. There’s no ‘DEI’ to point at, there’s nothing. There’s no possible objections whatsoever. She’s a solidly competent administrator and military who worked her way up the ranks. She doesn’t seem to be out of her depth. She’s exactly the sort of person the military should be lead by in peacetime, and her combat record seems competent too.
And, again, to repeat, they didn’t give a reason. There is no stated reason for removing her. Probably because they didn’t want to give their real objection, which Hegseth has stated in his book, in that he thinks she was confirmed for ‘optics’ instead of ‘skill’.
There is, again, no evidence of this, there’s no complaint about her actual command, and this what bigotry actually looks like…both these example.
You get minorities and women held to standards that white men are not, like how Fagan has not immediate magically erased something the previous Coast Guard Commandant did and was not even _fired_ over. And when there’s literally _nothing_ they can point to about Franchetti, who seems just a very competent person who has done nothing wrong and in fact, not really done much at all except keep things running, like she’s supposed to, and pretty much everyone seems happy with her, it’s just sort a ‘Oh, she must be a diversity hire and I will remove her’.
And to be clear, they are not ‘lying’. That’s not how bigotry works. They honestly believe that. They’re just bigots who assume that anyone who isn’t a white man couldn’t have earned their position.Report
NPR says that Trump fired six four-star level people. The other five were dudes.
While I absolutely agree that Franchetti should have been treated differently because she’s a woman, unfortunately Biden codified the 28th Amendment.Report
See, that’s an actual story worth pursuing, not the part about a woman being one of them… but 6 out of approximately 30+ top ranking Generals? That’s a bad precedent for an a-political military because it isn’t tied to any particular incident or failure and implies a sort of litmus test.
But that’s the story: is there a litmus test? what exactly is it? why those 6? and what new 6 take their places?
Now, it’s possible (in theory) that the top flag officers are in need of a thorough dusting… Biden, after all, held none accountable for the Afghanistan operational cf… but my priors would start with a litmus test and require evidence that Trump is acting for the good of the services. But that’s just me.
It’s true that the President is CiC and civilian deference ought only go so far; but it is also true that pure political advancement will corrode the officer corps very quickly. And, well, a very politicized military is indeed something worth guarding against.
But the focus on women and poc? That’s precisely the bad resistance that we need to avoid.Report
Three of the six fired were the JAG lawyers that are supposed to advise the actual heads of the services. (Who are not the Joint Chiefs, to be clear. The chain of command does not go through the Joint Chiefs.)
It’s been explicitly stated by Hegseth that he was worried those lawyers would be ‘roadblocks’ to what he wanted to do with the military, that the current ones might not ‘give sound constitutional advice’, and how they wouldn’t be ‘well-suited’ to give recommendations when the military gets lawful order.
All this stuff about how there are plans to use the military in ways that the lawyers might disagree with is being said _really_ out in the open by him, BTW. Those are things said by him, directly, in public, to the media. This is incredibly worrying, there’s almost no possible conclusion but that he is talking about using the military against US citizens, and it’s really absurd no one is talking about it.Report
Pour encourager les autres.Report
Did you…not read that?
One of the other people was the only Black officer in the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Really doesn’t undercut the ‘bigot’ concept there.
Three of them were the three top lawyers for the services, which feels like less bigotry and more ‘The lawyers will not agree with what I am trying to do’. Which is literally the justification Hegseth gave, that he ‘didn’t think they were “well-suited” to provide recommendations when lawful orders are given.’, and lots of stuff like that.
Firing _all_ top lawyers so they will not try to advise the military on what orders are lawful is not relevant to removing _specific_ individuals from their post elsewhere. (It is, however, pretty relevant WRT our slide in fascism.)
So that leaves us with exactly one white man: General James C. Slife, vice chief of staff of the Air Force.
He probably was fired for supposedly giving women special treatment in the Air Force’s elite special tactics field. This is actual nonsense, he called for an investigation _into_ that, but is as what he was smeared with: https://www.vox.com/donald-trump/401174/trump-fired-generals
So, to be clear here, we have Brown, who is supposedly doing DEI stuff, and Slife, who is supposedly helping one specific woman although he isn’t. Okay, there’s a very, VERY thin justification for removing them, even if the second is a lie and the first is just the general ‘encouraging Black people and women into the military’ that is 80% of what ‘DEI’ is there.
Which then leaves Franchetti. Who is not, in any manner at all, have alleged to do _anything_ even vaguely DEI related at all. There just is nothing there.
Her crime appears to have been that she _is_ a woman, and thus Hegseth, as he has claimed claimed repeated on podcasts, feels she does not deserve the position, despite not offering the tiniest bit of support to that claim.
That is bigotry. That is how bigotry works. You just talk about the vague _vibes_ of how someone isn’t as good as other people don’t deserve their position.Report
From my perspective, I do think that there should have been a lot more transparency in the firings. Hell, even something like Hegseth saying “I went out to lunch with each one of these guys and these six and I agreed that they’d be happier at Raytheon.”
But hearing that it’s merely bigotry is much better than the worry that it was fascism.Report
Hegseth has been incredibly transparent about why he fired the top JAG lawyers. He thinks they will get in the way of what he wants to do with the military. It’s not some secret, he keeps saying it.
I admit he’s not super clear about what those things he’s planning on doing are, but it’s something involving questions around the constitution and lawful orders.
Hey, do you know that Trump had to be talked out of ordering the military to fire on protestors during BLM? He was talked out of it by the Secretary of Defense.
https://www.axios.com/2022/05/02/mark-esper-book-trump-protesters
I mention this for no reason whatsoever.
You do understand that fascism requires bigotry, right? Part of what distinguishes fascism from other forms of authoritarianism is the division of society into in-groups and out-groups and the scapegoating of the out-groups.
But anyway, while firing various specific Joint Chiefs was ‘mere’ bigotry, firing the top JAG lawyers wasn’t. It was to make sure that the Secretary of Defense would not be ‘blocked’ from doing some unspecified stuff where apparently there were going to be questions about the legality and even constitutionality of orders.Report
Re the first footnote… Justice Sotomayor has regularly remarked in public that the primary reason for the rapid drop in SCOTUS’s public approval polling is the number of precedents the conservative block is overturning. I figure the Impoundment Control Act is toast.Report
If your prediction comes true, it’ll be interesting to see what constitutional basis SCOTUS can come up with for ruling it unconstitutional.Report
Seems like, if that happens, originalism will be toast right along with it and considering that originalism has been the banner of pretty much all right wing judicial philosophy for my entire adult life (or longer) that’ll be something the right will miss pretty fiercely when the worm turns again. Unless, of course, they honestly think they can rig it so they never lose an election again.Report
You assume that blatant philosophical inconsistency and shame have more force than they do. The self-proclaimed originalists rarely do originalism in any rigorous or consistent way. Indeed, they rarely do it at all. They, like almost everyone else, are cafeteria originalists. The only potentially interesting question is whether they are cynics or merely believe their own press clippings.Report
I’m probably not assuming a lot but I think liberals and even centrists would be on very solid ground to contemptuously laugh and disregard every person to the right who ever mentions originalism again if SCOTUS just does the equivalent of ripping off the mask and cackling “you fools, it wasn’t principle, it was just will to power all along!”Report
Citing your sources, we have $71.8 billion dollars of improper payments from the SSA alone. That’s “waste” if not fraud. Yes, it turns out we do actually have people who are paid government workers, who do catalog this.
Let’s say Musk manages to cut that to a third of what it currently is? That’s about $50 billion dollars saved.
Fifty Billion Dollars.
That’s a lot more than the $200 million dollars that Treasury thinks they can squeeze out of SSA by going over “Payments to Dead People.”
But, seriously, we have a lot of waste that can be cleaned up.
SSA is just one program. And, again, citing your sources, one that isn’t actually “high error rate.”Report
So far DOGE’s response to that fact is to fire 7000 workers and consolidate offices. Doesn’t seem like he’s after ending improper payments.Report