11 thoughts on “Has Trump Already Lost the Trade War?

  1. He has always been a bully. And Bullies are mostly bluff and bluster. He doesn’t care about Americans. Too bad he has to come back to office for people to be reminded of this.Report

    1. Intriguing follow-up to that with a very #cyberpunkfuture touch: Chinese farmers were using drones to spread swine flu to other farmers’ herds, literally killing off the competition. This was discovered when airliners started having navigation trouble when flying over farmland; the pig herders were using jammers to interfere with this drone-spreading activity, and the jammers were affecting the airplanes’ radios.

      https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3042991/china-flight-systems-jammed-pig-farms-african-swine-feverReport

  2. I’m of two minds on the subject.

    The optimistic take is that Trump is a known value now and his counterparties know that some symbolic gestures and lots of talking up Trump may be sufficient to buy him off.

    The pessimistic take is that Trump did actually launch trade wars before and this time he has far less latitude for fishing up. Inflation was just recently tamped back down – if he launches a trade war it could go to pot enormously quickly. Perhaps it’ll go so bad that it’ll convince congress to rescind the executives unilateral authority to enact tariffs.Report

    1. Yea I try not to be overly optimistic about this. Some stupid things are going to happen, it’s just a question of how stupid and when.

      At the same time you get the sense that some deferential ring kissing can defang Trump, at least a little. That was how I interpreted the recent interactions with Macron. While I hesitate to compare personal experience to high stakes international negotiations I have dealt with people like Trump in my 15 odd years of handling commercial contracting. You go into a room or onto a call and some blow hard chews you out for 15 minutes. You make a tactical decision to either respond in kind or to listen patiently. Most of the time the end product is well within routine parameters, in spite of all the theatrics. I have occasionally put on the scary voice and played the role myself.Report

      1. While a lot of Trump’s domestic supporters want him to do the things he says he will do – particularly on immigration – they also see his bluster as primarily designed to trigger the Libs, which is an outcome they view as almost as important.Report

        1. I think the most important thing for the average conservative voter is that their leaders are seen as being contemptuous towards the right people. Few of them read the fine print or follow up on actual outcomes. Which to be clear isn’t intended to be a charitable reading, but rather a cynical one. At the end of the day most Americans of all stripes DGAF about anything beyond the superficial.

          I do think reporting on some of these things would be better if more journalists had time in the private sector, seeing what things are actually like. Not because the private sector is somehow inherently better but because you deal with different kinds of people and personalities than in the upper tiers of government, prestige NGOs, and academic world. It doesn’t make people like Trump any less dangerous but it may add some perspective when you see there are jackasses like this all over the place.Report

      2. He also had an interaction with Mexico that followed along the same lines:
        Trump- I’mma gonna tarriff unless you cut off immigration and fentanyl lines to the US.
        Sheinbaum- Ok, we’ll cut off immigration and fentanyl Mr. President. *does nothing*
        Trump- Great conversation with Mexican President, trade war is off!

        But, of course, when talk means nothing then it isn’t predictive of actions so who the fish knows what’ll actually happen.Report

        1. Yea my above comment notwithstanding you get the sense that a whisper in the ear at the right (or wrong) moment can have him tearing up the previous arrangement or getting fixated on something else crazy. Which is also similar to the worst C suite execs I’ve interacted with.Report

  3. First, the error. The USMCA is not being renegotiated or part of this tariff threat. The ones for Canada and Mexico is all about them controlling the flow of illegal drugs, especially fentanyl, and illegal immigrants.

    Next, as noted while Canada oil is 60% of US imports of oil (please note the term imports, Canada makes up only 24% of US refinery throughput), it is 97% of Canada’s exports and will hurt them much more were those exports to the US dry up as the US importers of oil switch to cheaper places. This is what the people here seem unable to understand. Just because something from one source increases that source’s cost, does not mean purchasers will pay that increase. Purchasers will scramble for cheaper alternatives.

    A very basic example:
    Widgets have three sources
    Canada for 100
    EMEA for 105
    US for 110

    US imposes a 25% tariff on Canada widgets. US purchasers are not going to spend 125 on Canada widgets. Instead they will purchase as much as they can from the EMEA and US. This raises their cost around 5-10%. Not great and they are ‘paying’ for the tariffs because of this increase, but not the full tariff amount nor for the actual tariff.

    On the other side, did you scratch you head at the comment “Even so, the Chinese government said this week that it would be willing to go deeper into debt to weather the tariff war”? Wait if the US people were paying for these tariffs, why would China go into debt?

    Lets replace China above with Canada from my example, Canada widget sellers scramble to sell their widgets in other markets since the US is not buying. But it is unlikely they can offset the full loss of the US market (the US bought 97% of all Canadian widgets). They have a large supply of widgets sitting in warehouses and they are in financial trouble. The Canadian government bails them out with government money so they do not go under as the Canadian widget makers sell into the US at a loss (say 80-85, with the cost of a Canadian widget being 90), but not as much of a loss if they sat on the widgets.

    Of course Canada adds tariffs back and this process repeats in the opposite direction.

    Now how much pain will it take for one side or the other to blink on the reasons for the tariffs?Report

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