Pete Rose and the Limitations of Hustle

Andrew Donaldson

Born and raised in West Virginia, Andrew has been the Managing Editor of Ordinary Times since 2018, is a widely published opinion writer, and appears in media, radio, and occasionally as a talking head on TV. He can usually be found misspelling/misusing words on Twitter@four4thefire. Andrew is the host of Heard Tell podcast. Subscribe to Andrew'sHeard Tell Substack for free here:

Related Post Roulette

13 Responses

  1. Burt Likko
    Ignored
    says:

    As a kid I thrilled to Rose chasing Ty Cobb, and held dread he’d do it against the Brewers. No, it was the Padres and it was so much fun. And then… Like you say in the OP. Distinguishing between Pete Rose the player and Pete Rose the man is hard. Just as it is when a talented artist behaves very badly, the art itself often feels tainted.

    I have faith it’ll happen one day, and a part of me will be not only thrilled but hopefully relieved when someone hits number 4,257. Who knows, maybe it’ll be Cincinatti’s current camera magnet, Elly de la Cruz. Wouldn’t that be something.Report

    • Slade the Leveller in reply to Burt Likko
      Ignored
      says:

      I remember more his chase of Dimaggio’s hit streak record in ’78. Maybe it is unbreakable.Report

      • CJColucci in reply to Slade the Leveller
        Ignored
        says:

        Stephen Jay Gould reports o what would need to be true for DiMaggio’s streak to be possible:

        There is one major exception, and absolutely only one—one sequence so many standard deviations above the expected distribution that it should not have occurred at all. Joe DiMaggio’s fifty-six–game hitting streak in 1941. The intuition of baseball aficionados has been vindicated. Purcell calculated that to make it likely (probability greater than 50 percent) that a run of even fifty games will occur once in the history of baseball up to now (and fifty-six is a lot more than fifty in this kind of league), baseball’s rosters would have to include either four lifetime .400 batters or fifty-two lifetime .350 batters over careers of one thousand games. In actuality, only three men have lifetime batting averages in excess of .350, and no one is anywhere near .400 (Ty Cobb at .367, Rogers Hornsby at .358, and Shoeless Joe Jackson at .356). DiMaggio’s streak is the most extraordinary thing that ever happened in American sports.Report

        • Slade the Leveller in reply to CJColucci
          Ignored
          says:

          Given the average major leaguer’s propensity for and indifference to striking out, I’d say Joltin’ Joe’s record is quite safe. Only 2 guys had 200 hits this season!Report

  2. CJColucci
    Ignored
    says:

    I have long advocated a wing in the Hall of Fame where athletically-deserving but morally questionable people should have black-bordered plaques: Shoeless Joe Jackson, Pete Rose, the known steroid users. (I remain morally certain that there are steroid users now in the Hall, based on the shape of their careers, though I make no accusations against specific persons without better evidence.)Report

  3. Greg in Ak
    Ignored
    says:

    Watched him as an opponent and then on my team the Phils. Also saw his spiritual successor Lenny Dykstra. There is a type of guy who has so much success in their 20-30’s that they never can learn a new way of being/living. So they end up going from hard nosed and always giving 120% to clunky man child who can barely hold life together overnight.Report

  4. Jaybird
    Ignored
    says:

    I hope that the lifetime ban is merely a lifetime ban.Report

  5. Philip H
    Ignored
    says:

    Pete Rose chose, over an dover, to cheat the sport he claimed to love for personal gain. He deserves every opprobrium he received. He does not deserve a spot in the Hall of Fame because he is not a man anyone should look up to.Report

  6. John Puccio
    Ignored
    says:

    This was really well done, Andrew. Our heroes are almost always complicated. Some more than others. Few more than Rose.

    As for the Rose/HoF Debate, I have about as much interest in that as I do the Vice Presidential Debate. Less than zero.

    If Pete wanted to be enshrined, he could have/would have been. Part of me thinks he preferred being banned. It was far more financially lucrative to him. He made it his career for almost 40 years.Report

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *