Political Junkies Verses Sports Fans: Who Is More in Touch with Reality?
Last Friday, a day after President Biden’s disastrous debate performance, Nate Silver tweeted this which I’ve been thinking about a lot since:
The difference between sports fans and politics fans is that if you write a column saying the Jets should replace Zach Wilson as their quarterback, sports fans are like "yes, obviously, we want to win!" while politics fans are like "why do you hate the Jets, you loser!"
— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) June 28, 2024
I pay attention to both sports and politics, so I see all the time how people react to negative facts about the side they root for. Many people’s response to Silver’s tweet was that sports fans are not exactly rational either, and they have a point. Fans often overestimate how good the teams they root for are and get angry at others, especially people in sports media, for not agreeing with them on their team’s greatness. Fans will accuse others of hating their teams if their opinions aren’t completely positive. (There’s a great bit with baseball writer Buster Olney where someone collected screenshots of fans of all thirty MLB teams accusing Olney of hating their team.)
But I think Silver is at least directionally correct on this in that sports fans are, on average, more in touch with their side’s strengths and shortcomings, compared to someone who’s a partisan in politics. Three reasons for why I think sports fans are on average more objective: more sample size for sports fans to have educated opinions, opinions having the ability to affect outcomes in politics but not sports, and the presence of moralism in the us/them perspective in politics but not sports.
Compared to politics, there just are many more events in sports for fans to have an informed opinion. Games are happening every week if not more often. We see numbers that players put up. We see wins and losses. There’s some subjectivity to the numbers, and we can argue about how much any athlete contributes to their team’s wins and losses, but almost always the debates are within a reasonable range. People argued for years over who’s better, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. No one was suggesting Chad Pennington was better than both of them. Bears fans might have disagreed on whether to keep Justin Fields, but no one thought he was Patrick Mahomes.
In politics, however, there are very few real events where your opinions can be validated or disproved, so there’s much more room for delusion. The only real scoreboard is election results. In between, there are polls and public opinion, but many people have learned to act as if they’re not real. People tell themselves, no one answers the phones anymore. You can’t look at the top line, you have to look at the crosstabs (the crosstabs where my side looks good, not those other crosstabs.) Etc.
The Thursday debate was a rare political event in that we see massive numbers of people update their view on an important matter in real time. We might never see anything like this again. Things on the ground are happening quickly. There’s a chance that by the time you read this Biden will have already announced he’s stepping aside. We’re suddenly finding out from Biden allies that he’s been having episodes for months if not longer.
But before that, there was a lot of room for delusion when it comes to Biden’s condition. I have to admit that this was me. Before the debate, I agreed with many of the Biden talking points that he’s mostly fine, that his stutter doesn’t indicate mental decline, and the clips of him misspeaking were out of context. It was easy to tell myself that Biden was fine, especially when the likely replacement for Biden was vice president Kamala Harris, who I’m not a fan of. Of course it didn’t help that the people who saw him up close for months weren’t telling the public what was happening until now. In sports, you can’t hide the scoreboard from the audience.
There are other reasons why politics fans can be more delusional. In sports, fan opinion has no effect on who wins actual games. In politics, opinion shapes reality. People are turning away from Biden now because it’s very obvious now he’s no longer capable, but before that, it was a matter of debate. If you can persuade undecided voters that Biden’s fine, then they’ll be more likely to vote for him. When you need to lie to other people, often the first step is to lie to yourself. It’s much easier to argue that Biden’s fine to other people if you believe it yourself.
Then there’s the moral component to politics that’s not present in sports. Red Sox fans might call the Yankees the evil empire, but no one (well maybe a few people) thinks Yankees fans or players are actually evil. In politics, the other side doesn’t just disagree with you on the issues, there’s actually bad people who want bad things for our country. You can’t admit Trump had a better debate than Biden, because Trump is a liar and he wants to overthrow democracy and why are you helping him win anyway? What are you, a MAGA supporter? So you can’t admit that Trump won the debate because you can’t say that Trump is better than Biden at anything. If a sports fan keeps telling you their team are the real champions because they played better even though they lost, they would just get dismissed. In politics they’d have thousands cheering them on.
The Jets replace Zach Wilson a year ago because the results on the field were so obvious. We’ll see whether the Democrats have the courage to make an equally obvious move.
One thing that Fantasy Football taught me many years ago is that there are a lot of different levels that you can enjoy football on.
Level 1: “GO BRONCOS!!! WOOOOOOOOO”
This one is easy. Turn on the game.
Level 2: “John Elway is a really good Quarterback. He makes impossible passes.”
Level 3: “Mike Shanahan is a really good coach. He’s able to turn teams around.”
Level 4: “The Chemistry between players is strong… the QB works well with the Wide Receiver and the Tight End and the coach is able to put together plays where they all work together.”
Level 5: Stuff about Defensive Coordinators and Offensive Coordinators and coaching minutiae and knowing where the holes are in the team and hoping for a decent running back in the draft.
People who are level 1 and level 2 might have a lot of fun listening to the level 5 people arguing with the level 4 people on sports talk radio but the level 1s have the ability to love any individual game that the level 5s seem to have lost.
Level 1s might even question whether a Level 5 is even a fan of any given team anymore. All they seem to care about is stats and numbers and who even cares whether a defensive coordinator came directly from college ball or if they wandered through the AFC South before settling down with the Broncos. Who cares who the defensive coordinator is in the first place? Are you a football fan or are you a fan of coaching soap operas?
After Superbowl 50, I had a coworker come in who was ELATED. “We won!”, he laughed. I complained about Aqib Talib’s facemasking incident. I didn’t like the play. Soured the game for me. “Yeah, that was a bad play, I guess”, he said. “WOOOOOOOO!”Report
I had to stop playing fantasy football because it was utterly ruining my enjoyment of the games and sport as a whole. I have not regretted this decision one little bit.Report
For me, Fantasy Football taught me about the game. It went from being some weird chaotic thing to me being able to understand the difference between the stuff I previously didn’t know the names of versus other stuff I previously didn’t know the names of.
There was a real science to it!
I mentioned this to a guy I know who somehow balances being a #1 with being a #5. He told me “That’s why I always make sure that *ONE* of the guys on my team is a Bronco, even if it’s just the kicker. I never want to find myself in a situation where I don’t care about a Broncos play.”
My last job was filled with NFL fanatics. There were a lot of ex-military so there were a lot of people who grew up with different teams all sitting in the same lab and so the Seahawks guy and the Green Bay guy would bring up the Fail Mary to each other out of the blue.
I moved to my current job and the CEO was a HUGE football fan… just not the NFL. He’s a college football guy. I spent years learning how to talk football and, suddenly, my knowledge was all useless.
“College ball is about the *SYSTEM*, Jay”, he told me.
I tried to learn a little more about college ball but, man, I quickly learned that the NFL coaching dramas that made it through my bubble as an NFL fan were not merely a spice like I thought they were… they were the dang meal.
Well, Saban has retired now. I’m vaguely curious whether that changes everything everywhere or not.
Maybe we’ll find out that now that the single most dominant system in the game, once it loses its best player, has nothing but pale shadows waiting in the wings ready to demonstrate that someone like Donald Trump can swoop in and…
Wait.
What are we talking about?Report
Somewhere in there we have to acknowledge that online, professionally hosted, monetized fantasy football was just a placeholder for legalized gambling to come forth. Doing the old Yahoo! group fantasy leagues where you still got everyone together for a draft or whatever didn’t migrate to that, but the accusations that FF was a gateway drug to full blow gambling is not without merit. And I was for legalizing gambling on sports; at the same time we can be honest how it irrevocable changes fandom. The fastest way to got from your Tier 1 to Tier 5 fan is having money on the line.Report
Yeah, I’ve never played a pay Fantasy Football league but those guys always struck me as having a MUCH different relationship to it than I had.
For me, Fantasy Football was a way to make football legible. For them, it was about demonstrating mastery. It was the ultimate “put your money where your mouth is” thing.
It wasn’t just “first place gets two-thirds of the pot, second gets almost a third, third place gets his buy-in back” thing. The loser had to do a dare. Hold a sign that said something like “I suck at Fantasy Football” at the corner of a busy intersection or something like that.
Now, *I* think that it’s more fun to watch football and see the handiwork of the coach in a successful running play than to just yell “GO TEE OH!”
But the “GO TEE OH!” people seem to be able to feel it in a way that I can’t.
Is betting a way to feel like you care in a way that you used to? If so… man, they need to make that crap illegal again. Fast.Report
We have the data that answers that question: Meaningless NFL games are keeping their ratings all the way to the end, even blowouts, because the gamblers have to watch to the end. Folks are invested and won’t turn it off.Report
Fantasy football provides the same kind of incentive. Even in a one sided game that is competitively over garbage time points still matter. It also creates a reason to watch games you might otherwise skip. I think your comment above gets to the heart of it, which is just that officially legalized gambling is the next logical step from fantasy football, at least for those that want to take it.Report
I’ve often had similar thoughts of sports convo analogies for some of the discussions here. Here’s one I’ve been sitting on for a while: imagine you and your buddies are watching the game on Sunday afternoon, and at the end of the 3rd quarter your team is down by a TD and is facing a 3rd & 7 on their on 40. And you say “for the love of god, put the ball in the air, don’t get cute and try to run it!”, and your buddy says “yeah but that’s what they’ll be expecting”, and you get into a little argument about whether they should run or pass. But the decision the actual coach is making goes way beyond “run or pass” — he’s got dozens of plays in the playbook with a bunch of variations, and he’s managing a crap-ton of info about his personnel, the opponent’s personnel, his and their tendencies for the whole season, what worked well in practice, what his eyes-in-the-sky is telling him, etc.
You can have a great time arguing “run or pass” or even get really worked up about it, and maybe when they try a draw and get 3 yards and have to punt, you yell “fire the coach!” at the TV, but it’s all for fun and has practically nothing to do with reality.Report
I think Nate Silver, in that tweet, has demonstrated that he has zero experience with or knowledge of college football fandom. In every college football fanbase, there are sycophantic fans and homer media who will interpret any criticism of the head coach/program as bad faith. “He’s not a real Michigan Man,” etc.
I would suggest that if he wants to see the crazy in sports fans in the United States (South American and Euro soccer take the prize), he needs to spend some time around college football. In the name of their team, college football fans do shit like poison trees on the rival’s campus, assault people, make up false stories about a coach having an affair to get the guy fired so they can hire another guy, stalk high school recruits, …. The list goes on and on. And that’s not even touching what the programs themselves do in the name of protecting the coach/team/program. Penn State literally covered up systematized child rape to protect Joe Pa. Baylor covered up multiple rapes to protect their team.Report
A Republican Strategist concern trolled Democrats yesterday in the Times on why they should dump Biden. I’m inclined to think Democrats should do the opposite of whatever Republicans troll.Report
Donald Trump Wants Joe Biden to Stay in the Race:
Report
No, don’t fall for it – he’s just trying to trick the Democrats into switching!Report
Liberals aren’t good at trolling because as I mentioned elsewhere, our politics aren’t motivated by spite or the desire to inflict pain on the other side.
Queer people aren’t out there talking about why straights should be forbidden to marry, pro-choice people aren’t drafting platforms of forced abortions, and civil rights people aren’t writing books about why white people have lower IQs.
When the tiki torch Na.zis chant “Jews will not replace us!” the liberals don’t respond with “Hell yeah, Jews should totally replace Gentiles!”
The two camps aren’t symmetrical, and we shouldn’t be.Report
These are good points. Nate’s observation is certainly not new (see eg this comic) but I think you’ve captured why that sort of thinking is so much less apt to survive for long in sports world.Report