Sunday Morning! “Napoleon” by Ridley Scott

Rufus F.

Rufus is a likeable curmudgeon. He has a PhD in History, sang for a decade in a punk band, and recently moved to NYC after nearly two decades in Canada. He wrote the book "The Paris Bureau" from Dio Press (2021).

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36 Responses

  1. Napoleon was a major character in Woody Allen’s 1975 film Love and Death.Report

  2. LeeEsq says:

    Josephine was six years older than Napoleon but the actress playing her is much younger than Joaquin Phoenix.Report

  3. InMD says:

    As exciting as this film sounds conceptually, as soon as I saw the casting of Phoenix, I knew I’d be unable to stomach it. I also think Ridley Scott is well into the waning of his powers as a director when it comes to the story telling component. His returns to the Alien universe have been pretty uninspired and while I thought the Last Duel had its moments it went in a pretty trite direction in the end. I’m sure the spectacle is great but with all the whiffs it seems pretty clear his best films have all already been made.

    As for me I watched the new David Fincher movie on Netflix the Killer. I found it kind of stale. Definitely watchable for the length and keeping it well below 2 hours was the right call but it felt like something where you already knew all the tricks. It also wasn’t helped by a plot that felt derivative of various other movies (mainly the Bourne and Taken series).

    I also saw X which was better, and more entertaining. It was also pretty derivative but felt like it exceeded the sum of its parts with good acting, being kind of fun, and somehow making a horny, murderous geriatric couple strangely sympathetic, but not too sympathetic.Report

    • Rufus F. in reply to InMD says:

      That’s interesting because you’re a little wary of Napoleon for the reasons I hit on, and I’m a little wary of the Killer for the reasons you mentioned. That said, I’ll probably end up watching it anyway.Report

      • InMD in reply to Rufus F. says:

        The craft is as solid as anything he’s done and whenever you do get to the Killer it won’t seem like a complete waste of time or anything. But it’s also obvious that no one involved is challenging themselves, and as well executed as the film is you’ll feel like you’ve already seen it 100 times. Or at least that’s how it left me.Report

        • Marchmaine in reply to InMD says:

          I got so bored I turned it off as it was building to the final thing. Struck me as a made for TV movie.Report

          • InMD in reply to Marchmaine says:

            Due to the unreasonably early wake up calls in my house changing course for anything other than going to bed is not an option. Basically if I go through all of the trouble to go back downstairs, pour myself a glass of whatever, and start a movie after 9 PM, I am committed to seeing it through.Report

        • John Puccio in reply to InMD says:

          Agree. It was part, Kill Bill without the pulp and action. Part Grosse Pointe Blank without the charm and funny.

          I did enjoy the The Smiths soundtrack gimmick.Report

  4. LeeEsq says:

    Napoleon is a hard figure for 21st century audiences to get. He is supposed to be a conquering general and dictator that you find at least sympathetic in some respects because he attacked the Ancien Regime and modernized. The last conquering general people can feel for. It’s a bit hard for many 21st century people to cheer for an Emperor though.Report

  5. Jaybird says:

    One of the stories I heard from a guy who heard from his grandfather about a story from *HIS* grandfather, was how people were still talking about Napoleon in a way that, on the surface, was critical but, underneath, was awestruck.

    The line that I remember hearing in the story was the guy’s great-great grandfather allegedly said “I wish I could have fought for him”. Like, this at the end of a story half-mocking the stories about how how he rode through his great-great-grandfather’s town decades and decades before. This guy on horseback in full regalia, how absurd… I wish I could have fought for him.

    I’ve heard a lot about, as you say, “emo Napo”. It seems to be a deliberate rebuke to the stories that people have heard third-or-fourth-or-fifth hand.

    I don’t know if I want to see it.Report

    • Rufus F. in reply to Jaybird says:

      Yeah, I think they definitely meant to undercut his propaganda a bit. I’d almost suggest waiting for the 4 hour cut because I’d imagine they cut out a lot of the history and kept in all the tortured love material for this version. But, again, the battles play very well on a large screen.Report

      • Pinky in reply to Rufus F. says:

        You said to wait for the 4 hour cut and I thought you meant a trimmed-down version.Report

        • Rufus F. in reply to Pinky says:

          There’s a lot to cover in his life regardless of what you decide to focus on. I think the Spielberg series, which is apparently based on Kubrick’s ideas for a film, is going to run 9 hours. Admittedly, it’s a lot easier to get people to watch 9 one-hour episodes at home than 4 hours in a theatre.Report

  6. Marchmaine says:

    Tell me there aren’t daddy issues as the primary motivator.

    I was re-watching ‘Bridge Over the River Kwai’ recently, and it hit me that the primary drama centers on Colonel Nicholson’s refusal over his and his officers’ to engage in manual labor as justification for committing not just himself but his officers to suffer torture. The film was made in 1957 from a book published in 1952 describing events in 1942, which is to say it isn’t really history but a fictitious reenactment of a fictitious event where the audience shares exactly the same moral end ethical code.

    65 years later, as an historical artifact? It’s starting to feel alien.

    So here’s where I point out that movies have as a primary objective to conform the material to their audience’s framework… either to make us feel good, or feel bad, or feel conflicted. But the subject of every movie is us. Which is why a ‘good’ historical movie about Napoleon would feel weirdly alien in almost every respect and should dislocate ourselves as the subjects. And I’m just not sure that there’s a single person enmeshed in the practical and artistic constraints of movie making who could now (or ever) make such a thing.Report

    • InMD in reply to Marchmaine says:

      I’m sure someone in France could do it, just not in a way that also proves successful as an international blockbuster.Report

      • Marchmaine in reply to InMD says:

        Maybe? But I suspect it would be unpacking slightly different baggage. But yes, the financial restraints and artistic challenges of ‘understanding’ Napoleon (or any historical figure) weigh heavily against success.Report

  7. Saul Degraw says:

    I thought Napoleon was supposed to be very charismatic and dynamic. I wonder why they are doing neurodivergent Napoleon.Report

    • Jaybird in reply to Saul Degraw says:

      It’s not about Napoleon. It’s about the people the movie is (intended to be) for.Report

    • Rufus F. in reply to Saul Degraw says:

      That’s the thing. I’ve read a lot of accounts of the man and, regardless of how we feel about him, he was *beloved* by his soldiers and the general populace. Certainly, he was also hated by plenty of writers, but even with someone like Madame de Staël, who was probably his greatest enemy, there was a grudging admission that he was a charmer.Report

      • LeeEsq in reply to Rufus F. says:

        I was getting at this above with the problem of Napoleon as the last Conqueror you can root for. A lot of moderns in the 21st century West are really going to be struggling with the idea that you had this guy wage wars of conquest across Europe, overthrow a republic, declare himself Emperor, and be loved by tens of millions of ordinary people for it. The great dictators of the 20th century and their cults of personality sort of turned off a lot of people towards this, it goes against the current fashion for bottom up radical change on the Left, and seems to close to validating the authoritarian strongmen even though none of the current ones are Napoleon by a long shot.Report

        • Rufus F. in reply to LeeEsq says:

          Right, yeah, I don’t think they wanted him to be too sympathetic. Even him being unlucky in love was cast more as comedic. The interesting thing is he really was one of the only rulers of that era to actually rise from the ranks of ordinary people. They don’t really get into how that happened; only that he was insecure as a result.Report

  8. This part amazes me for several reasons:

    The Allies exiled Napoleon to Elba [near his birthplace of Corsica]. They gave him sovereignty over the island and allowed him to retain the title of Emperor. In the first few months on Elba he created a small navy and army, developed the iron mines, oversaw the construction of new roads, issued decrees on modern agricultural methods, and overhauled the island’s legal and educational system.

    They didn’t punish him for all the death and devastation he’d caused. Instead they gave him a pleasant, familiar island to be ruler of, and he took that job seriously. Of course, the second time he had to be exiled, things were quite different.Report

    • InMD in reply to Mike Schilling says:

      We have all known people in life who have something about them, where no matter how badly they screw up everyone wants to forgive them. This is why the casting of Phoenix is so baffling. Has he ever been charming in anything?

      I’m sure the studios would never go for it but it almost would have been better if they had cast a comedian who wanted to take a dramatic turn.Report

    • Yeah, the second time, they apparently slowly poisoned him, which maybe they should have done the first time.

      I remember being struck that they French conquered Malta quite easily (I mean, they were basically fighting against medieval knights) but the night before setting foot on land, Napoleon decided to spend sitting up all night writing the island a very detailed constitution.
      He was not lacking for energy.Report

    • DensityDuck in reply to Mike Schilling says:

      They probably figured that if they gave him something productive to do, he’d do that instead of trying to conquer Europe.

      And, y’know, it worked! …until he ran out of things to do.Report