April 11, 2025

85 thoughts on “Open Mic for the week of 7/17/2023”

  1. You’d really have to know your way around this site to find last week’s thread. How are a bunch of grown men supposed to keep arguing about Snow White?Report

    1. For the record: I do not see a single problem with a grown man saying “I’d like to see that new Snow White movie.”

      I also do not see a single problem with a grown man saying “I have no desire to see that new Snow White movie.”Report

        1. They’re intended to be throwaway posts with throwaway observations.

          If I find something that makes me say “THIS THING NEEDS AN ESSAY ALL BY ITSELF!”, I will throw something together (or just a link to the article with a handful of observations).

          But if it doesn’t even deserve that? Heck.

          We need a place for that sort of thing.Report

          1. I think Pinky’s point is that OpenMic should have a sidebar with, say, the last 4 weeks ready to click. Maybe replace ‘Hot Posts’ or Ten Second News 2.0 (which doesn’t seem to do anything).

            I’m holding off on Snow White until I know whether the Dwarves have proper Scottish accents or not.Report

    2. But to re-engage with the discourse (if only temporarily), I went to the IMDB page to see if there were any breadcrumbs.

      What I saw was that Dean Nolan is playing “Artisan 1” and Luisa Guerreiro is playing “Artisan 3”.

      So there is very much a reason that the movie is called “Snow White” and not “Snow White and the Seven Dwarves”.

      They probably knew that “Snow White and the Seven Artisans” would not move product.Report

      1. Indy 5 spoilers:

        Gurer jrer nyy xvaqf bs ehzbef gung Xnguyrra Xraarql jnf tbvat gb xvyy Vaql naq tvir gur ung gb Cubror Jnyyre-Oevqtr. Snaf cebgrfgrq. Qvfarl vafvfgrq gung gur ehzbef jrer hagehr, gura fcrag n sbeghar ba erfubbgf, naq abj gur zbivr unf Vaql trggvat fubg va gur frpbaq-ynfg fprar gura jnxvat hc va orq.Report

        2. I enjoyed the heck out of that movie and it certainly seemed like the intent was exactly what you spell out here. Frankly, I wish they had followed through.Report

      2. More Hollywood stuff – I’m suddenly seeing all the sophisticates declaring that Barbie is a work of genius. I also heard that Will Farrell is in it, playing a man. I’m going to guess a huge opening weekend, terrible word of mouth, just enough returns to call it a success, and three or four minor Oscars.

        I like Christopher Nolan but can’t bring myself to love him. Oppenheimer is three hours long, and that might be a tough sell for the audience. But it’ll last for a while in theaters.

        Cillian Murphy and Ryan Gosling are both treasures.Report

        1. The reviews of Barbie that I’ve seen say that it’s really funny and Ryan Gosling is *FREAKING* HILARIOUS and, well, hey. That should be good enough for me for streaming.

          Oppenheimer strikes me as a brilliant movie that I already know the high notes of. “But this movie not only gets into the whole issue of how they didn’t know whether the nuke test would destroy the world, but you also see Oppenheimer’s dong!”

          That is a selling point, but 3 hours (PLUS TRAILERS!) means that I’ll need to visit the restroom and drain the old Oppenheimer and, well. I am pretty sure that I can wait and catch it on the home theater.

          I wish them nothing but the best, though.

          They can’t advertise it due to the strike, I understand. It’s good for both flicks that they both have so much word of mouth.Report

  2. Most Jews in the United States do not keep kosher but Jewish events try to be kosher because at least a handful of people at any given Jewish event will be kosher to some extent. Kosher food vendors tend to be socially more conservative than most Americans Jews or at least don’t want to lose their kosher certification. This is now causing culture war issues. The Jewish Federation of New Jersey decided not to use a particular kosher baker because he refused to make a pride cake.

    https://twitter.com/jh_swanson/status/1680741557656322049?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1680741557656322049%7Ctwgr%5E53dd5bb7af775a376df20fbf5dec8fbf07886ddf%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdisqus.com%2Fembed%2Fcomments%2F%3Fbase%3Ddefaultf%3Dlawyersgunsmoneyblog-comt_i%3D13429820https3A2F2Fwww.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com2F3Fp3D134298t_u%3Dhttps3A2F2Fwww.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com2F20232F072Frasmussen-2t_e%3DRasmussent_d%3DRasmussen20-20Lawyers2C20Guns202620Moneyt_t%3DRasmussens_o%3Ddescversion%3D3c00c65811f2cec80a8903c739975872Report

    1. Was another kosher baker available?

      I mean, saying “oh, you don’t make pride cakes? I’m going somewhere else!” is one of those things that should be fine.

      (I kinda wish that more people would do that sort of thing instead of suing the bakers in order to make one.)Report

      1. That’s what the Jewish Federation did, they went to another baker. It is the kosher baker or really the Right that is complaining about the decision to take their decisions elsewhere.Report

        1. Wait, so is the Kosher baker complaining? That guy should know better.

          As for “the right”, let’s look at the article at jns.org and…

          While all those concerned understand that the baker has the law on his side, synagogues and even the local Jewish Federation seem prepared to ostracize him for his choice. By placing the bakery under a modern version of the traditional herem—a ban essentially separating an individual from the Jewish community—the Jewish Federation of Greater MetroWest NJ was making an important statement about its concept of what is and what isn’t consistent with the values of the Jewish community.

          Well, they absolutely should be free to shop elsewhere but I think that putting the baker under a herem is a step too far.

          Today is the first time I’ve ever seen the word “herem”, though.Report

            1. Oh, I’m familiar with the concept of “shunning” and I betcha that “herem” shares an etymology with “haram”.

              So, like, it’s not a foreign concept.

              I’ve just never seen the word before.

              And if they’re casting these guys out of the community, that does kinda strike me as “too far”.

              But, hey. You don’t make 6000 years’ worth of omelets without breaking a few eggs.Report

              1. House rules are up to those who play the game. To outsiders, it may be play stupid games, win stupid prizes, and they may be right about that, but insiders don’t have to care in a country with freedom of religion.Report

              2. Well, I hesitate to make sweeping generalizations about any ethnic group but Cishet White Guys.

                That said, giving this guy the old Spinoza treatment strikes me as something that Spinoza himself didn’t deserve.

                But I also think that they should try a bacon cheeseburger every once in a while and see what life is like over here where the food is good and, well, they’re still over there with two sets of plates.

                Who has the time?Report

          3. So i was curious about this and read a few more articles, and my takeaway is that Lee’s gloss and the JNS article are at the opposite extremes and neither is trustworthy. I see a community that’s sincerely wrestling with how to balance acceptance of diversity in thought & values with acceptance of diversity in sexual orientation — while there are a few extreme voices on either side, overall it seems that these are people who largely know each other and want to avoid a major rift. Having this story get picked up and used in the larger culture wars will probably not help that process.Report

    2. This really shouldn’t be any surprise.

      Those of us in the dominant group understand that Americans/ White people/ Christians/ Cis-Het are complex and have a multitude of different factions and classes and divisions but somehow the “food & festival” outlook is surprised when other nationalities and races and ethnic groups also are every bit as diverse.Report

      1. At least in the United States, there is a tendency to simply things and put it as a fight between Good Non-White People on one hand and Evil White people on another hand. Lots of people do this including what would be called the chattering classes in Europe, activists, etc. Jews are somewhat of a complicated case because Americans see Jews as white, so you get some presumption of a capability to be evil that they wouldn’t do for other minorities.Report

        1. Lee, I want to be gentle about this since it’s clear you care a lot about how Jews are perceived generally. But you really should consider that rejecting the kind of thinking you regularly lament on this subject doesn’t require you to become a Republican. There is a long liberal tradition of viewing people as individuals and understanding that no group is a monolith. In fact shut off the internet for a while and you will find those sentiments are pretty wide spread. It seems like this would be a better approach than repeatedly being upset about where Jews fall into some childish social justice hierarchy that itself doesn’t hold up very well.Report

          1. Living in San Francisco probably isn’t a huge help.

            I mean, if there are cities where the weird parts of SoJus social media leaks out into The Real World, San Francisco is one of them.

            Dude probably feels like a conservative just walking around and overhearing conversations in line.Report

          2. The social justice hierarchies might not hold up well but they are effecting real world policy or at least seem to be kind of doing so. You just need enough people to believe in them and be willing to act on this.Report

  3. Key California Assembly committee blocks bill to make child trafficking a ‘serious felony’

    https://www.kcra.com/article/california-assembly-public-safety-committee-blocks-bill-child-trafficking/44510634#

    “SACRAMENTO, Calif. —
    California lawmakers in the Assembly Public Safety Committee on Tuesday blocked a measure that would have classified human trafficking of a minor as a serious felony under state law, an effort that attempted to keep repeat offenders behind bars and make them ineligible to be released from prison early.”Report

    1. “Opponents of the measure, including the Ella Baker Center, have said the state already has laws in place to keep traffickers in prison for a significant amount of time. The Assembly Public Safety Committee Chairman, Assemblyman Reggie Jones-Sawyer, D-Los Angeles, said in Tuesday’s hearing more prison time would not address the root of the problem.

      Despite his opposition, Jones-Sawyer promised to work with Grove to work on the legislation.

      “I think there is a lane we can get to, you and I have not discussed this one on one,” Jones-Sawyer told Grove in the hearing. “I get where you’re coming from.”

      Report

    1. Well if they get to uppity Roberts could send in the US Marshals. Which would make it twice in 100 years that federal law enforcement has gone to Alabama to enforce equality.Report

  9. I heard about a study a few years back on NPR that had a lot more explanatory power than this. The comparison was to how diseases spread. This? This reads like someone deliberately trying to avoid a conclusion.

    Report

    1. DEI has been getting the chop chop across the corporate world for quite some time now. Contrary to the rights fulminations it’s not some ascendant successor ideology to liberalism- it’s just a fad. What is worthy in it will become part of liberalism and the larger part that’s dross will be discarded. Corporate wise there just isn’t enough market boost to be worth paying for those largely performative positions any more if there ever was.Report

  11. Flordia to teach that slavery was no different than an unpaid internship: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/07/19/florida-black-history-standards/

    “The Florida State Board of Education approved new rules Wednesday for how Black history will be taught in public schools that critics are decrying as a “step backward.”

    The updated standards say students should learn that enslaved people “developed skills” that “could be applied for their personal benefit,” and that in teaching about mob violence against Black residents instructors should note “acts of violence perpetrated against and by African Americans.”

    “These standards are a disservice to Florida’s students and are a big step backward for a state that has required teaching African American history since 1994,” the Florida Education Association (FEA), the state’s largest teachers union, said in a statement.

    The standards are the latest development in an ongoing debate in Florida over how Black history should be taught in school. Earlier this year, the education board rejected a new Advanced Placement high school course on African American studies, arguing it lacked “educational value,” igniting protests and outrage.”Report

    1. Sometimes I think the idea that there will be two tracks of education — one of them unremittingly critical, one of them bowdlerized by the privileged — is the worst thing about what the culture wars are doing to our country, by sowing the seeds of a complete intellectual disconnect between the people of our futures. We simply aren’t going to be able to talk to each other if half of us grew up thinking that slavery was the equivalent of working some unpaid hours to gain experience, skills, and networking opportunities.

      Other times I think that no, the worst thing is how DYSTOPIAN the bowdlerized education track is. The critical educational track at least is based on verifiable historical facts and contains an implication that we should try to do better, and really can only be faulted for its unambiguity about the violent, exploitative behavior of Our Awful Ancestors.

      In any event, this latest bit from Florida? Naught save tears will result from it.Report

      1. The thing about the situation is that critiques of blue state education often involve a lot of creative and selective nut picking but the red states seem increasingly reactionary and wanting to turn back the clock as much as possible. In the year 2023, we should not be debating the merits of slavery.Report

          1. Speaking for myself- whatever measure you wish.

            The crippling weakness of critiques of liberal education is the inability for anyone to demonstrate a superior outcome, whether it is at the primary, secondary, or higher ed level.

            There is no conservative version of universal primary and secondary education. It just doesn’t exist, anywhere and no one has even proposed such a thing.

            There is no conservative version of higher education that isn’t a joke.

            So measure it any way you like.Report

            1. This is an area where I think U.S. conservatism is potentially and outlier and hampered because of the fundiegelical aspect that breaks out into hives about what science has to say about their concept of religion especially evolution. I know people who grew up in quasi-authoritarian or soft authoritarian states and then moved here as adults or for college. As far as I can tell, the majority of education they had in their home countries was STEM, STEM, and more STEM.

              Part of this is for the same reasons a lot of U.S. politicians push STEM because the powers that be see STEM as a money-maker for the country. However, another part is that I think that the powers that be think teaching the arts and humanities creates free-thinkers and that is dangerous for the state. But the U.S. reactionaries get buggy on evolution and other parts of science and go against those too.Report

              3. As a rejoinder to “I think that the powers that be think teaching the arts and humanities creates free-thinkers and that is dangerous for the state”?

                It’s a direct response pointing out that the whole “teaching the arts and humanities” thing ain’t exactly happening either in places that are unsullied with Republicans filibustering the PTA meetings.Report

              4. No, that’s factually untrue.

                The “teaching the arts and humanities” thing IS happening in places that are unsullied with Republicans filibustering the PTA meetings.
                Make a list of the very best schools in American, public or private, and you will find schools where open inquiry and tolerance is encouraged.

                By contrast, are there any conservative colleges which aren’t a joke?Report

              5. Wait, we’re leaping from “high schools that don’t have a single proficient student” to “conservative colleges”?

                I’m not sure we’re comparing apples to oranges.

                But what would be the measure we want to use for “best schools in America”?

                Most students that have demonstrated proficiency?
                Most students that are Ivy League Legacies?Report

              6. As I said to Pinky, by any measure you wish.

                Conservatism is becoming a lot like Communism where they prefer theory to empirical reality, because the theory just can’t “deliver the goods” of peace, prosperity, and freedom.

                Conservative states and localities in America aren’t more peaceful or law abiding, they aren’t more prosperous, and their schools aren’t better.

                And you know this, so you have to keep whattabout-this-one-school.Report

              8. The humanities can create free-thinkers. The arts, it’s 50/50. The critical theory and ethnic studies programs prevent free-thinking. They impose a structure that can’t be challenged without calling your own morals into question, can’t develop in response to data because it’s experience-based, and can’t develop in response to anything else because it’s experiences-from-the-teacher’s-narrow-perspective-based.Report

              9. At this point I think it’s clear that those latter are make work jobs for stupid faculty and make degree programs for subpar students.Report

              10. Eh, that goes more to motivation than I’d like to. I’m thinking primarily about the crowding-out effect. A person who likes literature might not think of going to a school with a real classics program. It’s hard to see classics rebounding as long as critical studies exist.Report

              11. Secular authoritarians can just focus on math and science in education plus vocational stuff for the masses. American authoritarians tend to be a lot more religious or ideological. They want Americans to believe in their cosmology and don’t like egg heads that much, so they can’t do the lets focus on practical education that other authoritarian countries can.Report

              12. “American authoritarians tend to be a lot more religious or ideological.”

                Heh. Do you think that Albania borders China? Or that history began in 1993?Report

              13. Two thoughts to consider.

                In practice, the people at the top of theocracies tend to behave like the people at the top of secular authoritarian systems. They want the luxuries and comfort that power enables. They always seem to keep a supply of engineers and supporting disciplines on hand.

                In practice, secular authoritarians tend to keep rather tight controls on who gets to study/practice math and engineering at upper levels. As Oscar Gordon and I used to note, engineers running around loose and unhappy are dangerous. The Soviet Union had plenty of keepers for their top engineers.Report

    2. “I have been trying to work out how best to illustrate the sheer scale of Harris’s falsehood, and I’ve come to the conclusion that the only way to achieve it is to list in one place all the relevant parts of the course about which she is complaining. So, below, I have copied and pasted every single reference to slavery, slaves, abolitionism, civil rights, and African Americans that is in the document.”

      https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/kamala-harris-is-brazenly-lying-about-floridas-slavery-curriculum/Report

      1. Harris’ statement is of course ridiculously misleading, but because one of the 150 bullets did sort of match what she’s saying, if you pull it out of the long list and squint a little, it’s overstatement to say that she’s “lying” — it falls more into the “technically not demonstrably 100% false” area, kind of like what Scott Alexander said about media “lies”. Just enough of a tiny scrap of truth for the partisans to find a way to defend her statement.Report

        1. Yeah, I wouldn’t call it a lie either. It was neither factually correct nor intended to illuminate, but it also wasn’t a complete fabrication. It was demagogic exaggeration. The best thing you could call it is a work of fiction based on a true story.Report

    1. Yes. They do. People commit crimes and, if they’re caught, prosecutors usually prosecute them. Especially Jewish Space DAs, who love prosecuting hate crimes.Report

      1. Oh?

        Robinson was arraigned on August 3, 2021, on 8 charges including attempted assault. However, these charges were dismissed on January 3, 2023.

        …

        Robinson was again arraigned, but these charges were also dismissed on January 3, 2023.

        Report

    2. Some on the ground local context:

      The Consul General was attacked at Park Avenue and Oak Street. This is only a few blocks from my office. There are two notable things right at that corner.

      On the southwest corner of that block is the Multnomah County Behavioral Health Center, which was only recently built and opened* to provide mental health services for the unhoused. As a result, this building attracts the people who have some of the hardest mental illness in the region; these are the people I sometimes comment about “shouting at lampposts.” These folks are the ones who really do shout at lampposts, no joke.

      On the northwest corner of that intersection is a very small park that backs up to an alley which was a well-known spot for purchasing recreational narcotics from an unregulated street dealer. They’d hang out in the alley next to this bodega which in turn was next to the oldest strip club in the city. The City convinced the strip club to relocate a few blocks away, sent in the cops to chase out all the dealers, and cleaned the plaza up. Now there are about eight food carts and the park is suitable for regular folks to find a picnic table and enjoy their lunches there. Once in a while a busker shows up and plays music. A converted London double-decker bus offers beer, wine, and canned cocktails if you’re so inclined. It’s become quite pleasant there since the City cleaned up “Bodega Alley.”

      I often go to this cluster of food carts for lunch. I’m willing to bet the Consul General was doing exactly that too; it’s the likeliest reason a visiting dignitary would be in that exact spot. And I have a moment’s pause considering that — because were any of you to come to visit Portland, I’d have not hesitated to recommend that you go to this, my local lunch spot, patronize whichever one of the carts looked best to you, and enjoy a lunch in the park. Never mind the odd houseless folks, they’re mostly harmless.

      As it turns out, I may need to put a bit more emphasis on the “mostly” in that statement.

      Oh, and per the article, the suspect was arrested in the nearby “U.S. Bancorp Building.” No one calls it that. Everyone calls it “Big Pink.” Yes, we know. That’s part of the joke.

      * … And then closed and re-opened but that’s a WHOLE different story.Report

            1. I think he’s good at his job.

              I also think that he’s getting a lot of pushback from the police and old-school lifers at the DA’s office, because he’s a “progressive prosecutor.” Which means in practice that he directs his staff attorneys to search for non-carcereal sentences for “morals” crimes or offenses that aren’t violent or property crimes. He also directs his staff attorneys to take defendants’ rights seriously while going about their jobs. How well those instructions are followed is kind of an open question about which my criminal defense colleagues are skeptical.

              For instance, the defendant in this case was previously charged wit assault on a different man, but those charges were dismissed. They were originally filed as misdemeanors. But in the indictment for the assault on Consul General Yushioka, they’re back, and this time as felonies. (Turns out there’s a separate criminal charge for strangulation, which is something I first learned out when I was Today Years Old.)

              And lest I throw gasoline onto fires burning elsewhere, the defendant here is listed on official records as female, but the arrest report contains a line “Dresses like a boy, identifies as a male, slim build, short hair style.” So in addition to being African-American in the clutches of the Portland Police Bureau, there’s that too. Delightful.Report

  13. You know the thing how every 4 years one of the Republicans running for President picks a rock song to be the theme of their campaign and the rock band that made the song releases a statement saying “WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE CANDIDATE THEY ARE USING OUR SONG WITHOUT OUR EXPRESS PERMISSION”?

    Report

    1. I assume this is about drone warfare. Anyway, she did not tell Obama to take the song off the list. She just petitioned the former government with a complaint. I think she is being hazy and inchoate but whatever. What is your point Jaybird? Are you upset that people are accusing a country song of advocating for lynching?Report

    2. Hey, I kind of dig Obama’s playlist! You all may know Michael Kiwanuka’s song from Big Little Lies (which is really good) but all his stuff is soulful like that. And if you haven’t heart The War and Treaty before, now is a good time to start. Great voices. Saw ’em last year at the Portland Waterfront Blues Festival and was blown away. Tremendous.Report

Comments are closed.

Related Stories

Abundance, Up To A Point

From Freddie de Boer: Abundance, Up To A Point

OT Editors April 10, 2025 11

AOC and Hakeem Jeffries both call for ending government insider trading

Jaybird April 10, 2025
960px-Il_cratere_del_Vulcano_-_panoramio.jpg

Open Mic for the Week of 4/7/2025

Jaybird April 7, 2025 127

You may have missed

2025-04-11 TDoRS C5103 (04.15.17)

War!

Clare Briggs April 11, 2025
SHH

Golf and War Will Not Mix

Clare Briggs April 10, 2025
Oliver St. John Gogarty

POETS Day! The Admirable Oliver St. John Gogarty

Ben Sears April 10, 2025
Trump is losing the Trade War

Why Trump is Losing the Trade War

David Thornton April 10, 2025 2