28 thoughts on “Dems…er, Strike That, GOP In Disarray, Or Something

  1. I dunno. People still think Pelosi is a master political manipulator and she got railroaded by fractious party members into impeachment proceedings that she knew weren’t going to go anywhere.Report

    1. So she did impeachment proceedings and got Don in the history books as the first President to be Impeached (and not removed) twice. Was there some big cost downside to throwing the meat to her fractious party members that a master manipulator would have spent capital and effort to avoid? I suppose one could argue it energized the right and kept the Dems from expanding their majority in the house but that feels like a reach to me.Report

        1. Heh yeah, impeaching a president for cheating on his wife is aces but impeaching a president for using foreign aid to dragoon another nation into helping his reelection campaign or impeaching a president for encouraging a violent invasion of the capitol to obstruct the transfer of power? That’s just divisive.Report

          1. As I said, it wasn’t the only divisive thing that ever happened. I still think that the Clinton impeachment was the right thing to do and could have gone either way. I don’t think that either Trump impeachment met either of those conditions. If it matters, Clinton did actually cheat on his wife, lie about it in court, et cetera, and Trump didn’t do the things he was accused of.

            ETA: I should say that Trump did some of the things he was accused of, because there were a lot of particulars, but I don’t see how the specifics can rightly add up to any impeachable offense, or added up to the overall charges against him. I should have been clearer.Report

            1. He didn’t whip up a mob to rampage through the Capitol in an attempt to disrupt a constitutional process? I didn’t get the point of impeachment 1 but he absolutely did what he was accused of in 2. A chunk of Republicans conceded that, even if not enough to convict in the Senate.Report

              1. No, of course not. He whipped up a crowd and did nothing, just like he did the five previous years. With Trump, you don’t have to look for an ulterior motive for pointing the spotlight at himself. And you know, if he’d wanted to prevent the electoral count, there are a lot of things a sitting president could do that would have been far uglier. He woke up that morning with zero plan, and no one has ever demonstrated anything different.Report

              2. When I did my stint in criminal defense the most notable part was the incredible lack of planning, self-evidently terrible judgment, and total lack of foresight the average defendant had. Yet people are still deemed to intend the natural results of their actions. If I’m being asked to grant leniency to the president I need more than the possibility that he was too dumb to understand what he was doing. And even if it is the case I’d say that’s exactly the kind of thing impeachment is for.Report

              3. You’re lying about me. I don’t know if I should make a “keep your lies straight” joke, say that you don’t understand conservatives, or tell you that you’re doing a bad job representing Christianity, so consider this all three.Report

              4. If there had been dozens of attempts to storm the Capitol, sure. If there’d been dozens of Trump speeches that erupted in mass destruction, sure. This had never happened before.Report

      1. “So she did impeachment proceedings and got Don in the history books as the first President to be Impeached (and not removed) twice. ”

        you think the important part is “impeached…twice”

        but I think maaaaaaaybe the important part is “(and not removed) twice”Report

        1. Important? That’s for history to decide. I’ll say simply that it’s not nothing (though, obviously, not as much as if either of the impeachments had resulted in removal).

          You still haven’t identified identified how said impeachments were errors or failures of Pelosi’ manipulative political acumen though.Report

          1. I wouldn’t have done the first. The facts have always been convoluted and the politics of it were bad.

            Second there was just no choice and it was clearly the right thing.Report

          2. If they tried to impeach The Worst President Ever(tm) twice and they couldn’t make either time stick, it suggests that maybe impeachment is not a particularly meaningful check on Presidential behavior, and “being impeached” is something US Presidents should just expect to happen once or twice from now on.Report

            1. They did, and their party members dutifully voted for both impeachment and removal. That sufficient Republicans did not remove, despite issuing basically no coherent defense at all except “Despite testimony and evidence we don’t believe he’s guilty and no we have no evidence to show he’s innocent” says more about the GOP than the Dems.

              Still absent, of course, is how impeachment proved an error. You’ve demonstrated that they didn’t remove Trump, but you haven’t demonstrated how impeaching was somehow worse than not impeaching for what he’d done.Report

  2. Meanwhile they can’t decide on Paul Gossar, poster and defender of fake execution videos. A man whose own brother and sister call a psychopathReport

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