Going to the Dogs Over Anthony Fauci
This weekend saw a new controversy being touted by anti-Fauci brigade.
The White Coat Waste Project, the nonprofit organization that first pointed out that U.S. taxpayers were being used to fund the controversial Wuhan Institute of Virology, have now turned its sights on Anthony Fauci on another animal-testing-related matter — infecting dozens of beagles with disease-causing parasites to test an experimental drug on them.
House members, most of whom are Republicans, want Fauci to explain himself in response to allegations brought on by the White Coat Waste Project that involve drugging puppies.
According to the White Coat Waste Project, the Food and Drug Administration does not require drugs to be tested on dogs, so the group is asking why the need for such testing.
White Coat Waste claims that 44 beagle puppies were used in a Tunisia, North Africa, laboratory, and some of the dogs had their vocal cords removed, allegedly so scientists could work without incessant barking.
This has led to the usual outrage, memes and demands that Fauci be fired and arrested. So is there anything to this story?
Eh, sort of.
Most of the information being reported appears to be accurate. White Coat Waste uploaded the actual documents complete with references to the page numbers from which their information is drawn. While I can find no references supporting the headline that dogs were confined in cages to be “eaten alive” by parasites, there is a line item for cordectomies and directions that the dogs would be euthanized after the experiment was completed.
However…there is zero evidence that Fauci was involved in this research and none yet that he personally approved it. Having been on both sides of the grant process, it would be unusual for someone at his level to be directly involved in evaluating and approving research grants. To be fair, my experience is with NASA and NSF so maybe Fauci’s agency is different, but I doubt it. High-level approval generally applies to massive multi-billion-dollar programs, not small programs like this. To give you a sense of scale, Fauci’s NIAID awards about 4,000 grants every year.
There are many laws and regulations governing ethical research on living beings. But funding agencies don’t have the resources to monitor compliance; this duty is taken on by an Institutional Review Board (IRB, for human research subjects) or Institutional Animal Care and and Use Committee (IACUC, for animals). No grant will be funded without the approval of such agencies and failure of those agencies to enforce the rules can result in the loss of research funding (as well as potential civil or criminal liability).
This kind of animal experimentation is not unusual and experimentation on dogs specifically is not unusual. Every year, about 800,000 animals are experimented upon in the United States alone, including 60,000 or more dogs. Experiments on dogs, in fact, have a very long history. One of the most famous involved Joseph von Mering and Oskar Minkowski, who removed the pancreases of dogs to confirm that failure of the pancreas was responsible for diabetes.
The utility of research on dogs can be debated. While some scientists claim that computer models and human experiments can suffice, others are dubious about this and think animal experimentation is critical. Supporters of canine research would point out that, if the dogs weren’t being experimented upon, they’d just join the 400,000 dogs that are euthanized by shelters every year; opponents would argue that making them suffer on the way to euthanization just makes a bad situation worse. And they would also argue that the methods being used seem unusually cruel and unnecessary.
I’m not going to get into that debate. But I will point out that if suffering and euthanizing dogs is what worries you, this seems an odd place to start. It seems an especially odd place to start for a Right Wing that has spent decades ridiculing and mocking Animal Rights Activists.1 Over the last decade, over half a million dogs have been the subject of medical experimentation just within the United States. And the vast majority of those posting picture of puppies and demanding Fauci’s head didn’t say a single word. But now that they can link their nemesis — however vaguely — to a small experiment, they’re all about about animal rights and compassion? I welcome a vigorous debate on this subject but does anyone think their concern will last beyond the next new cycle?
A more relevant controversy that has gotten a bit more traction is whether or not Fauci lied when questioned by Senator Rand Paul on the NIH funding Gain-of-Function research:
The National Institutes of Health is now admitting to funding gain-of-function research on bats infected with coronaviruses at a lab in Wuhan, China despite repeated denials from Dr. Anthony Fauci that U.S. tax dollars were used on the funding.
In a letter to Rep. James Comer, ranking member of the House Committee on Oversight and Reform, an NIH official admits that a “limited experiment” was conducted in order to test if “spike proteins from naturally occurring bat coronaviruses circulating in China were capable of binding to the human ACE2 receptor in a mouse model.”
The letter states that the laboratory mice infected with the modified bat virus “became sicker” than mice that were given the unmodified bat virus.
The official, Lawrence A. Tabak, accused the New York City-based nonprofit EcoHealth Alliance, who funneled funds to the Wuhan lab, of not being transparent about the work that was taking place.
Gain-of-function research involves extracting viruses from animals to artificially engineer in a laboratory to make them more transmissible and deadly to humans.
Paul and the Fauci Fanatics are naturally doing a victory lap over this. Some are even going so far as to claim this “proves” that the COVID-19 pandemic was engineered by Fauci. But the truth is much more hazy, as Dr. Angela Rasmussen explains:
This tweet is wrong as the letter below clearly states that this wasn’t GOF by the P3CO definition, which for NIH-funded work is the relevant standard.
But though this is politically motivated, the lack of transparency & failure to comply with NIH requirements is indefensible. https://t.co/i68O2Tq9e9
— Dr. Angela Rasmussen (@angie_rasmussen) October 21, 2021
To sum up her Twitter thread: Fauci is still technically right. Gain-of-function research has a very specific definition. This research was not designed to create strains that would be deadlier or more infectious. It was designed to see what would happen if a spike protein were changed. Stretching my limited knowledge here, this seems to come down to intent, whether or not you are trying to create a more dangerous strain. That having been said, once the results were in, Ecohealth and the Wuhan Institute should not have withheld this information from NIH. This may be a failure to comply with the requirements of the grants as well as unethical. So there is a scandal here; it’s just not what Rand Paul and his retinue of conspiracy-addled satellites are saying it is. Finally, the contention that this has anything to do with the COVID-19 pandemic is entirely spurious. The strain that was being worked on is extremely distant from the strain that exploded into the world almost two years ago.
I am in an odd and lonely place on Anthony Fauci. I am not in Camp Saint Fauci, a group that sees him as infallible and makes hagiographic documentaries about him. But neither am I in Camp Adolph Fauci, which sees him as some sort of demonic creator of our woes. He’s a scientist who has done a reasonable job in unusual circumstances, made some mistakes, enjoyed the spotlight and drawn an unreasonable amount of both praise and criticism. Fauci made a huge unforced error early on by misleading the public on masks. And I feel he has been too quick to cast personal attacks on him as “attacks on science”; he may have become the focal point for anti-science gibberish, but that doesn’t make him a living embodiment of science. But overall…I think he’s been…fine. Not great, not horrible, but fine.
It’s important to remember that Fauci has no actual power; he can only advise and comment. Despite his lack of power, he has, partly through his own words and actions, become the embodiment of the various debates over COVID-19 and the response thereto. He has therefore, like everything else about the pandemic, becomes another front in the Culture War. The more one side praises him, the more the other hates him. And vice versa.
My point here is not to debate Fauci’s success or failure in the pandemic; history will decide that. My point is that people who have been on these issues long before COVID have credibility when they lob criticisms at him or at the government agencies he is involved in. But the clamor among those who have been acting in bad faith from the very beginning crosses me as opportunistic and disingenuous. They don’t care about dog experiments or the origin of COVID-19; they care about Fauci. What they care about is someone who has come to represent everything they hate about the pandemic. It reminds me of one of the my favorite quotes from Eric Hoffer: “Mass movements can rise and spread without belief in a god, but never without a belief in a devil.” The COVID “skeptics” need a devil; Fauci is it. And whatever evidence they can muster to “prove” that he’s the devil is going to be mustered.
There’s a case to be made that Fauci should step back from the public stage because he’s become too much of a focal point for inchoate Right Wing rage about the pandemic. But I feel like that rage will just be redirected elsewhere if he retires from public life. Because ultimately, this isn’t even about him; this is about a tiny population of grifters who are determined to turn a global pandemic into yet another front in the Culture War. And if they have to suddenly discover a concern for animal rights or pretend to understand the complex details of grants administration or act like one man is directing the global response to the pandemic…well, that’s what they’re going to do. Because they can’t imagine not being angry about something. And the rage machine always needs more fuel.
Well, you can’t make an omelet.
In any case, Fauci has admitted at least once to lying in order to serve the greater good. While I’ve got no problem with lying for the greater good, it comes with a cost of me not knowing whether to trust what he’s saying right now. Is he saying it because it is true? Is it saying it because it serves the greater good? I don’t know.
Maybe that’s not a problem. “You don’t have to know why, just do what you’re told!” is one of those things I grew up with, after all.
But I absolutely understand why people don’t trust him after he admitted lying. I guess I understand why people still trust him to be serving the greater good. But I kinda think that the greater good would be best served by him stepping aside and disappearing again. And he’s not doing that.Report
“While I’ve got no problem with lying for the greater good”
Well, I do. Cause in my industry, which doesn’t impact the health of millions of people, there’s a federal law that prohibits lying to the gov’t. That law flows down to company policies too, so employees tell the truth. if we are less than 100% certain, and we most always are, we couch our words in non absolutes, using phrases like “our current understanding of the situation is…” and such.
Fauci could have said something similar, in fact, most medical professionals I’ve every run into are very much NOT making comments of 100% certainty, so “f” Fauci for lying. I’ll never trust a word out of his month again. He had the option to speak with more ambiguity, he choose not to.Report
(they already had myocarditis, people are only finding it because they’re screening apparently-healthy patients.)Report
Say it with me – correlation (two things occurring together) doesn’t imply causation.
You know what’s MORE likely then COVID-induced myocarditis ( if the 1 in 100,000 figure below is correct)?
Being struck by lightening in a lifetime spanning 80 years – 1 in 15,300
Finding a 4 leaf clover – 1 in 10,000
Getting audited by the IRS – 1 in 220
Getting food poisoning – 1 in 6
Dying in a car crash – 1 in 107
Dying in a hurricane – 1 in 62,288
Your home burning down – 1 in 3000
Being killed by falling furniture – 1 in 5,508
Dying by bee stings – 1 in 59,507
Chance of dying in a mass shooting – 1 in 11,125
Perspective is a beautiful thing . . . as are probability and statistics.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782900Report
“s it stands, the number of young men they are permanently maiming is large (see the myocarditis stats)”
One, no it’s not. First, those myocardia stats are about 5 in one million, and of those, the vast majority will see no permanent damage. Most won’t even notice there was a problem, the bulk heal up within a week or two.
Second, myocardia is ALSO triggered by viral infections — because the reason vaccines can occasionally cause myocardia isn’t because the vaccines due it, it’s because your immune system overreacts to what it thinks is an infection and it’s this over-reaction that causes temporary swelling of the heart lining.
It’s risk with any vaccine, and a risk with any viral illness. Fortunately, as noted, very few people get it at ALL, and of those, very few of those have any issues after a few weeks.
All of which I’m fairly certain you know, but you decided to just….lie about it.Report
I think whatever purpose Fauci served as the official policy face of this has long passed. On one hand I think he had no favors done for him by the Trump admin’s incoherence in the early days of the pandemic. On the other he absolutely made his own decisions about messaging, up to and including lying and being wilfully misleading. The guy is obviously ambitious and has a very high opinion of himself, and it shows. My suspicion is that no thought was put into his elevation to spokesman. He simply was there and had the right title and credentials. Hopefully they think a little bit harder in who his successor in that role should be.Report
You know that Fauci was one of the guys in charge during the AIDS crisis?
It’s weird how the same names keep popping up, no matter the outcomes of what happened last time.Report
Bureaucracies implement the plans already on file with the people already retained.Report
Not only in charge, but said some pretty nasty things about AIDS victims too (IIRC).
I’m sure he’s walked those statements back since then, but the fact that he made such statements would make me hesitant to put him in a position to make public statements.Report
The stuff I’m finding that he said about AIDS was speculation over whether it could be transmitted casually (like, just housemates living together rather than via sexual contact or blood transfer).
Wash your hands!Report
I don’t recall what he said about AIDS victims. I will say it’s worth reading How to Survive a Plague by David French, which is about how people with HIV lobbied for better drugs and ran up against the federal government’s unwillingness to sufficiently fund research and Fauci’s obstinance about any drugs he felt weren’t sufficiently tested. The book goes into how activism actually changed the relationship between patients and the medical establishment and how drugs get approved. It’s been a while since I read it, though, so it’s better to get the book.Report
I think the cautionary tale we learn from CDC and Fauci is similar to the cautionary tale we learned from the DoD and Afghanistan: fundamentally our institutions are about distributing money… we want to believe that they are doing it according to expertise; but expertise is what puts you in charge of the money granting machine… it doesn’t necessarily mean you are executing the ostensible core capabilities well.
In fact, it is possible that our institutions have forgotten what their core competencies are supposed to be… what with all the money that needs distributing.Report
Support the Troops!Report
Our best intelligence suggests that the virus couldn’t possibly come from anything related to the WIV or our grant money as determined by our grant recipients.
Oh, here’s the 2019 report indicating that some of our research funds were used *NOT* for Gain of Function but for ‘accidentally’ changing the spike protein on a coronavirus that is definitely not related to ‘the’ bat virus… and, what’s that? The 2019 report wasn’t filed until 2021? Well, mistakes were made. But not any mistakes that might impede future funding.Report
These two posts today, Burt’s on the anti-vax lunatics and this one about the smear campaign against Fauci, prompt the question- Where is this coming from and why now?
Only a few years ago anti-vax madness was a fringe of both political parties and barely worth considering.
Now its formed the core belief of the political party which is poised to take power in 2024.
What changed? Why did the Republican leadership embrace anti-vax with such gusto?
Rather than swat the individual flies of the unending Gish Gallop of anti-vax nonsense, its more enlightening to look at the bigger picture of what happened and where this is going.Report
Fauci has used his influence to push several “noble lies” beyond the masks. From ‘two weeks to flatten the curve’ to steadily ‘nudging’ the threshold of heard immunity, to his participation in the Lancet letter denouncing the lab leak theory and the aforementioned role in GOF research. So it’s no surprise that half the country doesn’t trust him.
But just like Andrew Cuomo who was ultimately done in for being a grabby old creep, Fauci will eventually go because of the dead puppies.Report
“flatten the curve” was never about reducing the overall number of cases, it was about reducing the frequency so that instead of an indigestible peak there’d be a series of manageable pulses. And that is in fact what happened.
“Fauci will eventually go because of the dead puppies.”
Americans will set a man on fire then kick his still-living charred body out of the way to give a puppy a piece of cheese.Report
“Two Weeks to Flatten The Curve” was also used as justification for harsh lockdowns that extended far beyond the curve being flattened, hence the public perception that “Two Weeks” was misleading. It wasn’t going to be a short term sacrifice and “they” knew that at the time and “they” felt the noble “fib”was necessary. People notice when you keep moving the goalposts.Report
Fci needs to be replaced by someone who’s an expert in both immunology and public relations, will never misstep, and even the MAGAs will respect and admire. In the meantime, drink your bleach, shine bright lights up all your cavities, and eat your ivermectin.Report
You are 100% correct.
The #1 rule of public relations is DON’T LIE.Report
(looks at four years of articles about “Trump’s Administration Does Something Horrible” and “Trump White House Plans To Do Something Awful” and “Trump Sells Kittens To Toaster-Struedel Companies”)
yeah, sure does seem odd that people would focus on the head of a bureaucracy as the avatar of that bureaucracy’s actions and declare them responsible for everything the organization does. can’t imagine why that would happen.Report
“this is about a tiny population of grifters who are determined to turn a global pandemic into yet another front in the Culture War.”
it’s amusing that you put it this way, as though “I am morally superior because I wear a mask and social-distance” was never an attitude that anyone anywhere ever espousedReport
Also, it’s okay for people on our side to not mask at important events (even though the help must mask).
It’s okay. They’re outside in a tent. It’s for an important cause. The help is getting paid a *LOT*.Report
This is an example of what Burt was saying, that because someone doesn’t like The Other Team, they suddenly discover a distaste for smugness or elitism or medical testing or whatever, and therefore they develop a need to oppose vaccines or masks.
To test this, just follow the logic.
“Liberals are smugly wearing masks or smugly not wearing masks while the help does.”
Therefore…what? What logically follows, regarding masks?
They never say, because their desired conclusion doesn’t follow from the premise.Report
You’re right that most of the time people aren’t wearing a mask at you.
Thing is…sometimes they are.Report
Therefore…what? What logically follows, regarding masks?
Is it important to wear them?
Or is it optional?
Under what circumstances is it optional?
If the answer to that question is “you just hate people who believe in science”, then let me say that I still don’t know what logically follows, regarding masks, except that Our Betters seem to be operating under the assumption that they are not required for themselves.
And, let’s face it, if there’s anything that will make me feel safer taking my mask off, it’s the people telling me how awful this disease is deciding that it’s *FINALLY* safe enough to unmask.
Did you get your booster yet?Report
This is the desired end goal, to take a simple health practice like masking and turn it into something complex and unknowable, subjective and of personal choice.
The goal can’t be reached with declarative sentences (e.g. “masks don’t work”) so instead the strategy is just to throw dust clouds of confusion.
Should a surgeon wash his hands before operating? Who knows, it’s terribly complex, the data is unclear and besides doctors perform terribly cruel experiments on puppies.Report
Its frightening how you just “sounded” like Trump.Report
Many people are saying…Report
The confusion comes from establishing a bunch of rules like “wear an N95 mask” and then noticing that our leaders are not only not wearing N95 masks, but they’re not wearing masks at all!
If the rulemakers are not following the rules, they are the ones throwing dust clouds.
And the fact that I, an N95 mask-wearer, am accused of throwing confusion around instead of the leadership that is not wearing masks is an additional bit of confusion being added.
Did you get your booster yet?Report
Are you’re saying I should *stop* wearing by bedazzled lycra mask?
If virtue signaling while looking fabulous is wrong, I don’t want to be right!Report
Scientists did a study and errything about masks and covered t-shirt masks (single and dual layer) and N95 masks. Dual layer were ever-so-slightly better than not masking. Single layer were, they were surprised to find, worse than nothing.
People keep saying “mask up!” and not “wear an N95 mask!”
But you can get t-shirt masks that match your outfit. N95 masks are much less likely to look fashionable.
But if the goal is not “protection” but “communication”, well, t-shirt masks may even do a better job than those bland N95s.Report
Agree, they should be either mandating N95 respirators (they are technically not masks) or just forget about face coverings.
Your CVS mask does nothing but wear it for the entirety of this transatlantic flight anyway.Report
See we already covered this extensively and here you go repeating the same falsehoods.
Factually incorrect nonsense, easily understood by a careful reading of your very own link.
You keep trotting out the “it’s so confusing” stuff but it’s not true.
Masks work except for a tiny set of special circumstances which rarely occur. You know this, but pretend not to.
This once again what Burt and Saul and others keep speaking to, that this is not good faith ignorance, or caution or hesitancy.
At this point it can only be explained as a deliberate attempt at sowing disinformation.Report
A careful reading of my very own link said that single layer masks were worse than nothing, double-layer masks were “meh”, and the masks that worked were N95.
They did a scientific study and everything.
(Wait, does this mean that you read the scientific study? And came to a conclusion based on it?!?!? Does that mean that we can ask you about scientific studies now?)Report
And yet early on, it was recognized that a multi-layer homemade mask where the middle layer was from one of those blue shop towels — non-woven — was almost an N95 mask. A pain to breath through, but no more than the N95 mask I’m wearing almost 18 months later.
This is the same as the people who leave their nose outside the mask — no inconveniences for them, no matter the consequences. My wife is suffering progressive dementia. I bust my butt to make “Use the nasal steroids so you don’t have chronic rhinitis symptoms and can wear the mask” work. I have zero f*cks left to give for people who say they can’t breath through a mask and haven’t worked through “Why not?”Report
I’ve been going to Safeway semi-regularly since I got vaccinated and, through the summer, didn’t wear a mask and then, starting in August again, I was informed that I would be masking in public again.
Since then, we’ve gone from about half of the people in Safeway being maskless (not counting employees) in September, to, the last time I went, 90% of the people in Safeway being maskless (not counting employees).
I am continually frustrated that I am being defected against in our iterated game.
Not only by people down here at my level (which, I mean, I kinda expect that).
But by our betters. I wish that they would set an example for me to follow, rather than one that I am exceeding.Report
First, that’s not what it said. You’re leaving out the parts about friability and why that’s important.
Second, this is why I keep mocking the “I did my own research” thing because like many people, you read a scholarly paper outside your field of expertise, failed to really grasp what it was saying, and yet used the sciency jargon it contained to spread a virus of misinformation.
Look, this is not an insult. You, like every person on this blog is a well educated highly informed and intelligent person.
But no one here is an expert in epidemiology or public health. And an hour of Googling or Facebook searching doesn’t make you one.
When your research has you concluding that the experts are wrong, your first instinct should be “I must have missed something” not “Hur hur those experts are wrong”.
And your second instinct should be “I should probably check with people who really know”, not “How fast can I spread these micro droplets of misinformation “.
Until you can say forthrightly “Masks greatly reduce the transmission of the virus in almost all cases”, you’re just spreading nonsense.Report
” this is why I keep mocking the “I did my own research” thing because like many people, you read a scholarly paper outside your field of expertise, failed to really grasp what it was saying, ”
(this is the part where you tell us, sir)
(this isn’t twitter)
(you can write a comment as long as you like)
“your second instinct should be “I should probably check with people who really know”…”
do you have another study to suggest, one that was done by the people who ~really~ ~know~, because this would be a great place to drop itReport
Here’s from the CDC.
Does the CDC have recommendations on the types of masks? YES THEY DO!
Hold your mask up to the light. If you can see light through it, then it is not CDC approved. They specifically recommend wearing a disposable mask underneath a suitable cloth mask. You know, if you can’t get an N95.
I don’t know if this counts as disinformation, though.Report
You and I both wouldn’t understand it if I did, any more than I would understand an astronomy paper by Michael Siegel, or an engineering paper by Oscar Gordon.
We don’t know the difference between a good paper and bullshit paper which is why autodidactism is a game of fools.
The experts in the field say that mask wearing works. They also say that washing our hands works, and that condoms prevent the spread of HIV, the earth revolves around the sun and that smoking leads to lung cancer.
How many of those things did you independently research and study and form your own conclusions for, as opposed to just trusting the experts?
Why is it always just that one thing, where people become suddenly and inexplicably distrusting of experts, while remaining wholly credulous about everything else?Report
I read a scholarly paper and it said that some masks did not work and other masks worked.
My argument is, and remains, you shouldn’t merely say “mask up”. Because some masks don’t work.
My research did not have me conclude that the experts were wrong, my research concluded that they were right and them being right meant that, here, let me copy and paste this:
It’s weird that you interpret that as me saying “masks don’t work”.
You should be interpreting it as me saying “some masks don’t work, some other masks do work, wear the ones that do.”Report
According to your linked study, in almost all contexts masks work. In a very small set of unusual circumstances, they don’t.
So yeah, saying “mask up” does work because the vast majority of masks are of the kind that work, even if meh.
We started this thread by you asking :
“Is it important to wear them?”
Well you yourself answered yes.
So why continue to ask this, as if there is some vigorous debate?
At various points along the way you’ve tossed out red herrings like that the elites weren’t wearing masks, or that they falsely claimed that N95 masks were ineffective, but those were just distractions because you can’t form a logical path to a conclusion with them.
And at the very end, you arrive at “well, in a vary small set of rare circumstances, its possible that wearing a mask is counterproductive”.
Yet again, what logically follows?
Just wear a better mask, that’s what follows. In every single case, the logical conclusion is “Wear A Damn Mask”.
There is no logical path that concludes with “masks are unnecessary”.Report
Chip, you say “masks” and I make distinctions between different kinds of masks.
You know, like they do on the CDC page.
Do you *NOT* make distinctions between types of masks?
You should check in with the experts.
They make distinctions between types of masks.
There is no logical path that concludes with “masks are unnecessary”.
This is why I argue for stuff like N95 masks and get upset when Our Betters appear unmasked in situations where they ought to be wearing masks.Report
Interesting to come back to this one six months later.Report
But don’t most people recognize that wearing a t-shirt mask is like saying “good morning” to co-workers you don’t actually know? Not a “show” as a display of virtue, but a “show” as in we all know we have to wait a few more months before they drop these nonsense regulations. I don’t want to spray anyone if I cough, but we’re all probably going to get some variant of this thing anyway.
I guess I don’t know the answer to this. There may be a lot more delusion than I realize. The fact that we’re masking children shows that we’re not particularly connected to reality. The large number of people who’ve dropped out of the workforce is another indicator.Report
It has reached a point where it is orthogonal to the need to map to reality. If it does, it does so coincidentally.Report
I don’t know whether to laugh at you or metaphorically punch you.
1) In many places they are no longer masking kids. 2) Until the CDC agrees with the FDA (probably next week) kids had no other line of defense, especially in places where vaccination remains low and thus community transmissibility remains high.
What? You’re defending the masking of kids while saying they’re not longer doing it? Shouldn’t you be angry that jurisdictions are discontinuing it, if you think it has a benefit? If not, then why did you say that kids have no other line of defense?Report
If there is any lesson in Fauci it’s that knowing science, being an administrator and offering policy advice are a very different skill set from being an effective science communicator. Certainly to communicate you need to know your stuff so any spokes weasel can’t do it. But just anybody can’t clearly comm what to do and why.Report
Agreed completely. Scientists are, by and large, terrible science communicators to the public. And I have no doubt Facui’s comms staff were and still are apoplectic about some of his answers. Sadly science graduate programs didn’t train for anything except peer reviewed publication until well into the 2000’s. You can now get graduate degrees in science communications . . . .Report
Related, this podcast:
Why is academic writing so bad?Report
Dr Fauci is not just a good communicator, he’s an excellent one. By any measure, scientist, bureaucrat, politician or otherwise.
The majority of his career has been spent doing hight profile, high stakes public engagement. He did not rise to the level he has achieved by not being an incredibly effective communicator. This isn’t some researcher that has been hiding in lab for the past 40 years.
The problem isn’t that he doesn’t stay on message, the problem is the messaging is constantly changing.Report
But if he were a good communicator, he would have made it clear that the science is always progressing, and that the virus, treatments, et cetera are always changing. “Here’s the best we understand right now” versus “if we all do this I think we may be going back to normal by July 4th”.Report
Politicians crave certainty. They want to know – RIGHT NOW – how their decisions will play out. They don’t like anything less, and will eviscerate anyone who is being cautious as a waffler. Plus, as a senior bureaucrat, Dr. Fauci was most certainly getting major talking points from a White House that wanted to minimize the threat. He was dealing with those contrary pulls in the midst of both a generational pandemic and science in real time. And many many times he said “here’s what the science says now” to a bunch of politicians who didn’t things to change so they could MAKE A DECISION and move on.Report
But that sort of goes to my point. That’s not a communications issue. That was the messaging that I can only assume was agreed to by Fauci and other public policy people.
The sum total of the inconsistencies in those messages is the issue. That is what undermines their ability to persuade a large portion of the public.
Let’s put it this way, if you were on Fauci’s comms team, you have a lot easier job than if you worked for a lunatic like Trump or a cognitively declining Biden. The “circle backs” to “clarify” what they said/say deserves serious hazard pay.Report
Politicians are inconsistent all the time and yet manage to persuade all sorts of people. Its never considered a sin when they do it so I’m not sure why its a sin for Dr. Fauci – who again was and still is trying to balance complex intersections between science, policy, politics, economics and communications.Report
I agree that some of the inconsistencies are due to evolving understanding of the virus, how it is transmitted, the efficacy of X, Y, Z, etc. And if that was the only thing we were talking about, there would still be be people who who are dead set against what he says – mainly because they just don’t want to continue living this way. Let’s call them the deeply cynical. But when you add the documented “noble lies” that are told because the public can’t handle the truth (there are several) – he has admitted trying to ‘nudge’ people by fibbing this or that – throw in vaccines (there will not be mandates), suspending the J&J jab, ignoring natural immunity – and then add in the big ticket items like the orchestrated dismissal of the lab leak theory and the role his agency plays in gain-of-function research (that’s not *really* gain of function…) — it really should not be a surprise to see that half the country doesn’t trust him anymore. Those are not communications issues, per se. Those are all choices, some worse than others, but they add up.
Anyway, that’s my take. I could be wrong, I often am…Report
I’m saying that many (most?) of those inconsistencies reflect the developing science and situation. But if he’s failed to convey that instability, that’s a miscommunication on his part.Report
Sorry, I think I replied to you to Philip above. I guess I’d add a point here to Philip. I think most people would hold public health policy experts to a much higher standard than a politician. It’s assumed they are all liars. That’s why they run attack ads. Easier to tear someone else down than elevate yourself.
In terms of persuasion – I totally agree that they have been a failure. I concede persuasion IS an element of effective communications. People will say they did everything they could and anyone not on board is just a nutjob. But they didn’t. Education efforts have been preachy and tone deaf. Blaming Fox News or Red State governors. Once everything became political, heels were dug in. The public health leaders should have done a better job of staying above the fray, but the did not. If they were actually interested in being persuasive, they would have tried harder and been more transparent.Report
Imagine if he had gone in front of the cameras and told the truth. “N95 masks are probably useful, but we lack adequate stockpiles even for the front line people. The supply chain for PPE runs through China and will almost certainly be cut. The national stockpile of ventilators is useless because we haven’t paid for the ongoing regular maintenance on them. Testing will be inadequate to keep track of what’s happening for months because the CDC screwed up.” How’s he supposed to close that? “Pray that we haven’t run up against the worst case, as contagious as measles and lethal as smallpox”?Report
The first rule of public relations is never knowingly lie. It always come back to bit you.Report
I know what would have happened had he done that. His resignation letter would have been on his desk waiting for his signature when he got back.Report
If you’re locking down society and enforcing the strictest of strict social distancing policies where you’re not suppose to leave your house, why do you need to lie? You can’t say, we need N95 respirators for our medical staffs for whom it provides *some* protection? I mean, do you really think whatever they said to deter the public from buying N95s made any difference? I don’t.
Meanwhile supply ramped up pretty quickly and lying about it only hurt credibility, which has had a much more lasting effect.Report
NIH never issued any stay at home orders. Hell the federal government never did that. States did that, usually on the advice of a number of sources, some federal and some state. And got pilloried for it, or have you managed to forget the storming of the Michigan state capitol?
The Trump White House’s number one message to agencies at the time was don’t panic the markets. I am reasonably certain that talking point was in there precisely to keep from panicking the markets, whether it would have or not.Report
Whoever issued the lockdowns and where in Spring 2020 is largely irrelevant since I’m not aware of many places in the the U.S. you could do much of anything once the virus got going. The vast majority of the public was doing exactly what Dr Fauci recommended. The decisions he made in the early months are not the reason for his unpopularity with half the country today. The mask reversal was just the first of the “inconsistencies” that garner more attention because his emails indicate he advised personal connections not to bother wearing a mask. Honestly, that is more problematic for him than the “noble lie” of saving respirators for front line workers. If you are a person who hates wearing a mask, it’s a hard thing not remember.Report