Two Great Cases: Of Wheat, Weed, and Wickard
I
During the Great Depression, Congress determined that international supply and domestic demand for wheat and wheat products were subject to perilous fluctuations, creating instability for a bedrock food product needed to feed impoverished Americans. It therefore passed the Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1938 and delegated regulation of wheat production to the Department of Agriculture. That agency, under the leadership of FDR’s Secretary of Agriculture Claude Wickard, set quotas for production of wheat based on a per-acre basis. The purpose of the law was to stabilize the national market price for wheat. In order to do that, only so much wheat per acre of land could be grown.
Roscoe Filburn of central Ohio had a farm inherited from his mother, of 95 acres. Most of the land was devoted to raising poultry and dairy cows. Under the New Deal allotment, up to 11.1 acres of that land could be used to cultivate winter wheat. But Filburn planted roughly 23 acres of winter wheat. This yielded a total of 239 bushels of wheat in excess of the quota. He used most of the wheat to feed his family and his livestock, and reserved some for the next year’s planting. But there was still wheat left over, which Filburn wished to sell. For his trouble, he was given a fine of $117.11, and more importantly the local officials withheld Filburn’s marketing card, which meant that he could not sell any of the crop.
He refused to pay the fine and sued for relief from it and for issuance of his marketing card. In Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942), Filburn argued that because he did not exceed his quota of wheat sales, he did not introduce an unlawful amount of wheat into interstate commerce. The wheat he fed his family, fed his livestock, and reserved for planting was both trivial in amount when viewed from the Federal government’s perspective, and more importantly never entered the stream of commerce either within Ohio or within the larger national market for wheat. It was therefore a purely local activity, he argued, beyond the reach of the Federal government to control or regulate.
The Supreme Court ruled against him and in favor of the government. While it was true that this physical wheat was never offered for sale and instead was consumed directly by Filburn, the fact that Filburn didn’t have to go to market himself to buy wheat meant that, however infinitesimally, demand for wheat was reduced. What if everyone did that? That could tangibly reduce demand for wheat, which would reduce its price, which in turn would reduce its supply, inducing a wheat shortage. The whole point of the law was to stabilize the price so that there would be reliable amount of wheat for everyone to consume. Therefore, even though Filburn consumed the wheat himself, that consumption was regulable within the scope of Congress’ power to “regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes.”
The immediate practical result was that Filburn had to pay the fine. The wheat itself had long since been consumed in one form or another. In a few years, the price stabilization scheme was scrapped and farmers on Filburn’s scale went to an antecedent form of today’s cooperative-sale-and-crop-insurance scheme, which sometimes serves farmers quite well but doesn’t provide complete isolation from business risks.
But the long-term result was that Wickard v. Filburn gradually grew to stand for the legal proposition that the Commerce power of Congress is effectively limitless. Since even small, seemingly purely local decisions to not enter the market, if aggregated, have an effect on interstate commerce, scholars concluded that there simply was no thing that Congress could not legislate on, regulate, or effectively, prohibit, if only it took a few moments to indicate the effect of that thing upon interstate commerce.
Roscoe Filburn himself never really spoke of the case again, and as the case grew in legal prominence, he began using a different form of his family name, “Filbrun.” After his death, his own grandson reported surprise at learning of Roscoe Filburn’s involvement with one of the most far-reaching legal decisions of the twentieth century.
II
The Federal Controlled Substances Act (CSA) was an attempt by Congress in 1970 to restate and re-organize a complex assortment of various laws regulating various ingestible substances with a variety of effects on the human body. After the 1970 reform of the laws regulating and criminalizing substances, Congress created the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) in 1973 as a separate law enforcement agency under the purview of the United States Department of Justice.
Since that time, the DEA has been the agency which has engaged in primary (though not exclusive) enforcement of the CSA. As a Department of Justice agency, the DEA is ultimately controlled by the President and, directly reporting to the President, the Attorney General.
Generally speaking, it organizes a large number of described stimulants, depressants, hallucinogens, and other narcotics into a five-tiered schedule, with various levels of criminalization and ability of medical practitioners to prescribe. One commenter has offered a series of examples to illustrate how the scheduling works:
- Schedule 1: High potential for addiction and abuse; no recognized medical uses. Examples include ecstasy, LSD, and heroin. Marijuana is also considered a Schedule 1 drug, despite studies finding it to have medical uses.
- Schedule 2: High potential for addiction and abuse; limited recognized medical uses under strict controls. Examples include cocaine and methamphetamine. Cocaine and meth’s presence in a lower schedule may surprise some; however, they have widely-accepted and recognized medicinal uses. Cocaine is a remarkably effective anesthetic, amphetamines have been used as stimulants for nearly a century, including, both amusingly and frighteningly, by Adolf Hitler during World War II.
- Schedule 3: Intermediate potential for abuse or addiction if abused; recognized medical uses under doctor’s supervision. Examples include anabolic steroids, ketamine, testosterone.
- Schedule 4: Moderate potential for abuse or addiction; recognized medical uses under tightly-regulated medical prescription. Examples include Ambien, Xanax, and Valium.
- Schedule 5: Low potential for abuse or addiction; recognized medical uses under general medical prescription. Examples include Lyrica and cough suppressants.
It is marijuana and its medicinal uses which concerns us today. Since the late 1930’s Congress has regulated the production, distribution, sale, and consumption of marijuana, first through the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937, which imposed a punitive tax on the substance so as to render it effectively unavailable legally anywhere in the United States. The Marihuana Tax Act was struck down as unconstitutional in the case of Leary v. United States, 395 U.S. 6 (1969), which held that when Timothy Leary attempted to enter the United States by car from Mexico, he would have been required to declare the presence of marijuana so as to pay the tax, which also would have required him to admit possessing it, which was a crime, and therefore compelled self-incrimination in violation of the Fifth Amendment. A unanimous Supreme Court struck the Marihuana Tax Act as unconstitutional. The holding in Leary was one of the precipitate political causes behind the passage of the CSA.
III
In 1996, the voters of the State of California passed what was then known as Proposition 215, the Compassionate Use Act of 1996. Among other things, Prop. 215 decriminalized the cultivation, distribution, and consumption of marijuana contingent upon the issuance of a medical prescription for its use and registration of the consumer as a medical user of marijuana. In the author’s experience, a large number of Californians proved able to readily obtain a prescription from a physician. A cottage industry arose for doctors who associated with marijuana dispensaries, some of whom diagnosed hundreds of patients, assembly-line style, with conditions such as “stress” and “intermittent loss of appetite” and thus justified prescription. However, users frequently failed to complete the registration process to get a medical marijuana card, resulting in their inability to subsequently claim immunity from prosecution for possession and use.
Angel McClary Raich was at the relevant times of the story a resident of Oakland, California. She suffered (and to this day still suffers from) a very complex constellation of medical and psychological issues including an inoperable brain tumor, paralysis-inducing scoliosis, PTSD tracing back to childhood sexual molestation, endometriosis, degeneration of her right rotator cuff, asthma, and an inability to maintain a healthy body weight. Under doctors’ advice, she began to incorporate marijuana use in her treatment regimen in 1997. There were other plaintiffs in the case as well, two of whom were listed as “Does” to protect their anonymity, and a third who was named but after the resolution of the litigation has shunned public life completely. It is challenging to imagine a plaintiff with a more sympathetic set of facts than Ms. Raich.
Her then-husband, Robert Raich, was one of the authors of Prop. 215, and served as one of the principal litigators in her case against the Federal government. That case came after DEA agents raided the home of one of Ms. Raich’s co-plaintiffs and destroyed the marijuana plants she cultivated; causing Angel Raich to fear DEA seizure of her own supply of cannabis products.
Raich, likely working with her husband, tapped into a network of libertarian-leaning think tank lawyers who believed that here, at last, was a meaningful way to punch a hole in the holding of Wickard v. Filburn as well as to accomplish what they saw as a significant public policy and individual freedom gain: knocking over a hurdle on the road to the legalization of marijuana.
IV
The basic claim was that the Controlled Substances Act exceeded the reach of the Commerce Clause, as applied to medicinal marijuana cultivated and given away on a volunteer basis. The difference between Raich’s situation and Filburn’s was that here, Congress had eliminated the market for marijuana entirely, and therefore no legal interstate commerce in marijuana was possible. In other words, there was no market in which Raich’s behavior might cumulate and alter. They were careful to indicate that they did not challenge the Controlled Substances Act in its entirely, only its application to the noncommercial, medicinal use to which Raich put it, which had the benefit of complying with state law.
As expected, they lost in the initial level, the U.S. District Court, which found that it was unlikely Raich would succeed on the merits of her claim. But to some surprise, the Ninth Circuit, by a split decision of 2-1, agreed with the argument, finding that “the intrastate, noncommercial cultivation and possession of cannabis for personal medical purposes” in compliance with Prop. 215, was distinct from the illicit drug market addressed by the CSA. So it was with a certain optimism that Raich and her team approached the Supreme Court in the autumn of 2004. In June of the next year, they got their result.
Placing particular weight upon Wickard, a 6-3 majority of the Supreme Court reversed the Ninth Circuit, ruling for the government and against Raich. The majority opinion by Justice John Paul Stevens noted:
We need not determine whether respondents’ activities, taken in the aggregate, substantially affect interstate commerce in fact, but only whether a “rational basis” exists for so concluding. … . Given the enforcement difficulties that attend distinguishing between marijuana cultivated locally and marijuana grown elsewhere, … and concerns about diversion into illicit channels, we have no difficulty concluding that Congress had a rational basis for believing that failure to regulate the intrastate manufacture and possession of marijuana would leave a gaping hole in the CSA. Thus, as in Wickard, when it enacted comprehensive legislation to regulate the interstate market in a fungible commodity, Congress was acting well within its authority to “make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper” to “regulate Commerce … among the several States.” … That the regulation ensnares some purely intrastate activity is of no moment. As we have done many times before, we refuse to excise individual components of that larger scheme. Gonzales v. Raich, 545 U.S. 1, 22 (2005) (cleaned up).
In other words: we the Court are not going to decide whether Congress is required to carve out so-called purely local activities from the scope of a sweeping prohibition of the substance. Congress has power to regulate marijuana generally because in some instances, marijuana is a substance in the flow of commerce. The criminalized nature of that commerce does not change the fact that the activity is economic, “there is an established, and lucrative, interstate market” for marijuana. Congress has power to regulate; here, Congress has chosen prohibition.
The majority was unmoved by the seeming appropriateness of medicinal use in Raich: the CSA, after all, regulates a variety of substances that it contemplates will be used medicinally. Also unpersuasive was the compliance with state law as a means of defining a limitation, the issue was simply one of whether or not Congress had the power to regulate (and thus in some cases prohibit) a substance, which it has.
So, from the “separate and distinct” class of activities identified by the Court of Appeals … , we are left with “the intrastate, noncommercial cultivation, possession and use of marijuana.” Thus the case for the exemption comes down to the claim that a locally cultivated product that is used domestically rather than sold on the open market is not subject to federal regulation. Given the findings in the CSA and the undisputed magnitude of the commercial market for marijuana, our decisions in Wickard v. Filburn and the later cases endorsing its reasoning foreclose that claim. Gonzales, supra, at 33.
It’s worth noting that the dissent was written by Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, in which she was joined by Chief Justice Rehnquist and Justice Clarence Thomas. The dissenters indicated that to them, the case fell beyond the outer limits of commerce clause authority because the kind of use in question here would not affect the interstate market for marijuana, and therefore would have no substantial effect on that market. Extending the commerce clause here, they argued, would grant Congress effectively the same police power to legislate on anything and everything that is exercised by a state. Interestingly, O’Connor wrote that she disapproved of medical marijuana: “If I were a California citizen, I would not have voted for the medical marijuana ballot initiative; if I were a California legislator I would not have supported the Compassionate Use Act.” Gonzales, supra, at 57 (O’Connor, J., dissenting). But she believed that the Constitution left room for California to experiment with this proposal nevertheless.
Justice Thomas wrote a separate dissent, indicating that he questioned the basic premise of the Wickard case, as he found that Ms. Raich used “marijuana that has never been bought or sold, that has never crossed state lines, and that has had no demonstrable effect on the national market for marijuana,” id. (Thomas, J., dissenting), and therefore was, in his opinion, beyond Congress’ power to regulate. He mediated at great length about the Necessary and Proper Clause, and found that Congress’ attempt to regulate intrastate, local use of a project would not thwart Congress’ legitimate objective of attempting to halt interstate and international trafficking in the stuff.
But the majority upheld application of the CSA, and Raich was left where she started: at risk of arrest and imprisonment for possessing and using the only substance she had ever found that afforded her relief from the symptoms of a complex and pitiable series of grave ailments.
V
To this day, Wickard v. Filburn represents what many scholars recognize as the high water mark of the scope of Congress’ power to regulate economic activity under the Commerce Clause, a mark from which there has been subsidence exactly twice in American history since, both relating to criminal laws. The first, U.S. v. Lopez, 415 U.S. 459 (1995), saw the Supreme Court strike down the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990, because the mere possession of a handgun within a specified distance of a school involved neither the channels of interstate commerce, the instrumentalities or things within the stream of interstate commerce, or activities that might substantially affect or relate to interstate commerce. The second, U.S. v. Morrison, 529 U.S. 598 (2000), saw the Supreme Court strike down the Federal Violence Against Women Act of 1994, which provided for a civil right of action in Federal courts for victims of domestic violence to sue their attackers, holding that despite Congressional findings of fact that domestic violence caused over $5 billion a year in health care costs, domestic violence crimes were while abhorrent, not “economic” in nature whatsoever.
Both Lopez and Morrison were 5-4 cases with majority opinions authored by Chief Justice William Rehnquist; in no case before or since has Congress’ commerce power been found to exceed its Constitutional limits. (But see Solid Waste Agency of Northern Cook County (SWANCC) v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, 531 U.S. 159 (2001), limiting the “migratory bird rule” formerly in use the by Army Corps of Engineers to extend jurisdiction to enforce section 404 the Clean Water Act into bodies of water that did not empty into navigable rivers or lakes, a rationale with parallels to Wickard’s aggregation-of-commerce rule. Chief Justice Rehnquist also wrote the majority opinion in SWANCC. Those cases were relied upon by the Ninth Circuit’s ruling in Raich’s favor, and distinguished from Raich’s case by the Supreme Court.) The Lopez case attempts to offer something of a principled test, but it’s worth noting that the only thing that the laws in Lopez and Morrison have in common are the attempt to prevent and address crimes of violence; they should not be read as “pro-violence” cases but rather to indicate the Court’s decision that violence is a local matter, rather than a national issue.
VI
Roscoe Filburn died in 1987. According to his grandson Gerald Spurgeon, Filburn never talked about the Wickard case, saying, “No, he wasn’t talkative…He was a farmer.” As near as I can tell, Filburn’s farm has since been developed mostly into tract homes in Trotwood, Ohio, a suburb of the city of Dayton; all that remains of his farm is the farmhouse itself, now used as a residence. A residential street about a quarter of a mile away from the house is named Filbrun Lane in honor; almost none of the land appears to be in use for agriculture today.
Angel Raich was an active marijuana legalization and medical use advocate through early 2013. In late 2012, she was diagnosed with radiation necrosis affecting the portions of her brain near her tumor. Also with the assistance of counsel, she co-filed an amicus brief in the case of Department of Health & Human Services v. Florida, a challenge to the individual mandate segment of the PPACA, arguing that the individual mandate exceeded the fair scope of the Commerce Clause. This legal theory was not formally resolved; the Supreme Court found that the individual mandate was a proper exercise of Congress’ power to impose taxes.
She and Robert Raich divorced several years ago; Robert Raich continues to practice law focusing on the issue of marijuana regulation. She now goes by the name Angel Galvez-Raich but has not been publicly active since her diagnosis took a turn for the worse in 2013. After the loss of the Gonzalez case, Raich’s co-plaintiffs (two of whom, who worked at the Oakland dispensary the two named plaintiffs used remained anonymous to the public) chose to withdraw from the public view, and their fates are not readily researchable.
Want to start the comments here by publicly thanking Burt for writing this. Not only because it is a great piece, but he had already offered to pinch-hit in Em’s usual Wednesday legal slot this week, and with the death of her sister last night made the timing a blessing. Thank you, Burt.Report
Second this.Report
I’m sure I speak for the entire OT community when I extend condolences and best wishes to Em and her family.Report
It is spectacular to see you writing here Burt.Report
I hadn’t heard about Em’s sister before reading this. I’m really sorry to hear it. I wish her the best.Report
“amphetamines have been used as stimulants for nearly a century, including, both amusingly and frighteningly, by Adolf Hitler during World War II.”
People have pointed out that amphetamine use was fairly widespread in the German army before and in the early parts of World War II, meaning that the reason the Blitzkrieg was able to advance so quickly was that the soldiers were all ripped to the absolute tits on meth, and the reason they weren’t as effective later was that the chemical factories had changed from meth to synthetic oil…Report
Huh. Isn’t that History Channel history? Other countries managed fast advances with nazi meth. We, the brits and russians all had rapid advances only contained by supply problems throughout the war.Report
I think amphetamines were issued to troops by all belligerents during WWII. The Germans’ use gets more attention (I wonder why…)Report
I have no knowledge that amphetamines were used to make soldiers go farther or faster in the field. It’s my understanding that they were used by people in leadership positions, pilots, and guards, with the goal of increasing their attention, mental focus, and ability to stay awake. Which I’m sure meth does, at the expense of physical dependence upon continued substance intake, diminishment of impulse control, heightened irritability and emotional volatility, and eventual deterioration of various bodily tissues.
It’s the idea of wartime leaders suffering the loss of ability to formulate and implement rational judgments which I find most frightening.Report
When you read about the original case of Wickard, you see what was going through the minds of the judges: “if X, then Y! And Y is absurd. Plus, FDR will pack the court. Therefore ~X.”
And now we’re in this weird place where we’re seeing that if ~X, then ~W. If ~W, then ~V. And ~V sure looks as absurd as heck to me. Well, if Prohibition was absurd, anyway.
And I’m looking at Y again and seeing that it’s not *THAT* absurd, all things considered.Report
The “Y” in Wickard (Yckard?) makes more sense when agriculture using domestic hand labor is still a big part of the nation’s GDP. The modern equivalent would be, I dunno, a law saying that companies which provide the ability for people to communicate with each other aren’t legally liable if the communication is of illegal material or for an illegal purpose.Report
Maybe so, but he wasn’t feeding the wheat to his domestic hands. Well, horses were hands, I guess.
But “I made some wheat, I fed it to my horses, it’s not interstate commerce” is, on its face, a true set of statements. And arguing that it’s interstate commerce because it *IMPACTS* interstate commerce makes me wonder if Two People In A Life Partnership engaging in one of the many acts of love is interstate commerce because it arguably impacts sex workers.
Which would be absurd.Report
Ask Mr. Caminetti about that.Report
That involved travel across state lines.
A slim reed but a reed it is.Report
Software. My cartogram software is interstate commerce, even if I’m the only one who uses it, because I use that instead of buying a license for ArcGIS or some other commercial package. Same for all of the open-source tools that went into it: Perl, gcc, the GD library, Mark Newman’s density-equalizing code, PROJ map projection software, POV-Ray, ffmpeg, and no doubt some others I’m forgetting. All interstate commerce under Wickard, as I understand it, because there are commercial equivalents.
Presumably Congress could make such software illegal tomorrow.Report
And suddenly I see a path forward for Congress to limit the ability to print guns at home (or anything, for that matter).Report
They can have my laser-jet when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!Report
The printer was made in China. The plastic “ink” was made in China. The firmware was made in China. The software and databases were made in India. The template for goblin warriors was made by a hobbyist in Canada.
How in the heck would your printing of little goblin warriors for your tabletop game *NOT* be interstate commerce?Report
“Alexa, download that new 3d printable gun spec.”
“Sorry, Dave, I’m afraid I just can’t do that. It violates your EULA terms of use.”Report
This may not be an undesirable end state, all things considered.Report
One of the things with printing guns at home relates to domestic violence and people on parole. People with domestic violence restraining orders against them often aren’t allowed to have guns or paroled felons. If you can print guns at home that makes it easier for people on the dangerous side to make a gun while microwaving pizza rolls.Report
Which is part of the argument against trying to control the object. At some point, you just have to accept that you can’t cover every possible way for a person to commit harmReport
Presumably if you did all the math in your head, it would also impact the interstate commerce in software to do the math for you.
Once products that automate thought are an article of interstate commerce, the act of thinking is interstate commerce regulable by the federal government.Report
One other thing to keep in mind here is that there’s an actual war happening, and nobody wanted to have a court precedent for Doing Things That Let You Avoid Paying Taxes.Report
Nice piece Burt.
Personally, I’ve never seen any relevance to the medical use angle here. The ninth circuit finding reads to me as “the intrastate, noncommercial cultivation and possession of cannabis for personal
medicalpurposes.” If that’s the case one may as well insert milk, eggs, coca-cola, and machine guns.If medical use is important, then who decides what is a medical use? Well before FDR, the SCOTUS had affirmed the federal government’s power under the Pure Food and Drug Act to regulate drugs and adulterated foods in interstate commerce. Em Carpenter wrote a summary last year of the 1916 Coca-Cola decision in which the SCOTUS held that the addition of too much caffeine rendered the drink dangerous. The thread that would be pulled if the federal government’s decisions about public health and safety are not presumptively determinative will undo either a small or large sweater. Which is why I think the issue regarding any item intended for personal use, and not in interstate commerce, eggs and all, cholesterol good or bad.Report
Great article, Burt! At some point, we’re going to have to reign in the commerce clause. Using the Court’s “this is the house that jack built” logic, you can basically extend federal power to anything in existence, as the solicitor general himself admitted in the Lopez arguments.Report
Someone explain to me why prohibition required a constitutional amendment but no other “ban” of drugs didn’t….Report
The answer is that nobody believed Prohibition required an amendment. They wanted an amendment. The number of people who used drugs was a lot lower. There were all ready a blanket of state and local dry laws that made getting alcohol very hard throughout most of the United States by the time Prohibition passed. The Drys wanted a Constitutional amendment to get rid of the few Wet strongholds and because they thought it would make Prohibition permanent. They didn’t believe that Prohibition required an amendment. They wanted a constitutional amendment because it is harder to repeal than an ordinary law.Report
Yeah, constitutions can be amended to cement policy preferences on future generations. I think that’s mostly the case here, alcohol laws waned and waxed for generations, depending on whether Democrats or Whigs/Republicans gained power, even if alcohol wasn’t the primary issue in the election. Getting the issue Constitutionalized was a means of taking this off the table, if your side won.
But there was also a SCOTUS decision in 1890 (Leisy v. Hardin), which applied the dormant commerce clause to prevent Iowa from enforcing its dry laws against beer shipped from Illinois. The Court held that Iowa couldn’t regulate interstate commerce, so to be a dry state, it could only do so via a uniform national law, which was passed and essentially delegated to Iowa the police powers Iowa thought it already had. This nationalized issues, particularly as some thought that delegation back to the states wasn’t an exercise in uniformity, and others thought that the federal law was a good start.Report
I think the Wets and Drys were evenly split between the two parties. Both had wet and dry factions. The Anti-Saloon League supported a Democratic candidate for governor in the early 1900s because the popular Republican governor, Myron T. Herrick, refused to support dry laws. It was only after Prohibition passed did it get associated more with Republicans than Democrats.
It should be noted that excise taxes on alcohol were the largest source of federal revenue before the Income Tax amendment passed in 1913. Even if individual politicians supported prohibition, the federal government itself had a vested interest in keeping alcohol legally on a national level at least until they got an alternative revenue stream.Report
There were all ready a blanket of state and local dry laws that made getting alcohol very hard throughout most of the United States by the time Prohibition passed.
Hold on a second. The constitution was an obstacle to federal prohibition, not state and local prohibition. Was there a federal prohibition law prior to the 18th Amendment? The Volstead Act wasn’t passed until several months after ratification.Report
I don’t think the Constitution was an obstacle to federal prohibition. The interstate and international trade in alcohol could have been easily stopped under the most conservative readings of the Commerce Clause. As Justice Holmes pointed out in his dissent in Hammer v. Dagenhert. The Drys sought an amendment for stategic purposes rather than legal purposes. They wanted the strongest ban possible. That required a constitutional amendment.Report
The Drys already got alcohol banned on federal property like army bases before the Volstead Act by the way. The failure to pass anything like the Volstead Act before Prohibition wasn’t due to constitutional limitations. It was because they didn’t have the votes in Congress or the President on their side. It was political limitation.Report
Congress already had power to regulate federal property. Furthermore, I don’t see how they could have passed an amendment without having enough votes to pass a law enforcing nationwide prohibition. The amendment passed 65 to 20, which would have been enough to override a presidential veto of a regular bill. They had the votes to ban alcohol nationwide right then, but they waited two years for ratification first.
Everything you’re saying is 100% consistent with Congress wanting to enact prohibition earlier, but recognizing that they didn’t have the authority to do so without a constitutional amendment.Report
The Congressional vote count is the same for a Constitutional Amendment and for overriding a Presidential veto. The former also requires approval of two-thirds of state legislatures, which was accomplished in about a year.
They are not the same vote though. Voting to send a Constitutional Amendment is not a dispositive vote, but a vote that can minimized as letting the country decide. But more importantly, an Amendment cannot be repealed except by two-thirds of the same bodies, so it has much more permanence. (The minimalization of the vote’s effect, coupled with a maximal outcome might be seen as contradictory, and maybe they are but individual Congressmen can choose their own rationales independently)Report
Two-thirds of the state legislatures to call a convention to propose amendments. Three-quarters of the state legislatures to ratify amendments, even those proposed by a convention. Don’t suppose we’re likely to see a test case, but post Arizona v. Arizona initiative states can presumably ratify an amendment by initiative without the elected legislature doing a thing.Report
Oops, you’re right. Three-quarters of the states needed to ratify. Admittedly some of this is post hoc analysis, but getting 36 states to ratify in 13 months is pretty incredible given states have their own process and calendar issues. In fact, 8 more states ratified within weeks of meeting the goal, so this makes it seem like an amendment was easier to get approval among the states than in Congress.Report
Congress seldom sends out an amendment unless it is already quite popular. The Senate finally approved the 17th when the call for a convention needed only a single additional state.
State legislative session “season” is traditionally from January to May/June. The 17th was submitted to the states in mid-May, 1912. Three states ratified it by the end of June, 1912. Then nothing until the 1913 “season”, when 33 more ratified it between Jan 15 and Apr 8.
The 26th was submitted on March 23 — still relatively early in the “season” — and ratified in a bit over three months.Report
…but getting 36 states to ratify in 13 months is pretty incredible…
Ignoring the initial set of amendments submitted to the states, nine of 16 were ratified in less than a year. Five of those nine before the 18th, four after. Amendments that get to the ratification stage are pretty darned “ripe”.Report
Wouldn’t the rise of internet commerce lead to a Wickard type concept over the last 20 years. Maybe wheat wasn’t interstate commerce back then. But every single object known to humanity if on sale on amazon or etsy or one those places now. Isn’t everything interstate commerce now. Also see credit cards which are by their nature interstate and international.Report
Interstate commerce is a characteristic of specific transactions, not goods. The fact that a good is sometimes sold across state lines does not magically imbue all instances of that good with interstate commerciality. Only the specific transactions across state lines are interstate commerce.Report
But aren’t pretty much all the transactions of web businesses inherently interstate. It seems like having a simple purchase be with a credit card in one state with a business incorporated in another state fulfilled in 1 or more states and shipped to a different state is pretty interstatey.Report
Greg, the Supreme Court ruled that California plants grown in California soil with California seeds and watered using California water that were then *GIVEN*, not sold, to Angel Raich in California counted as “Interstate Commerce”.Report
Yeah, that doesn’t really address the point i’m asking about.Report
I would think that the point you’re asking about is completely and totally subsumed by the point that I pointed out.
Let me demonstrate:
Greg, could you name three things that are *NOT* Interstate Commerce (according to the standards that the Supreme Court appear to have set as legal precedent)?
Keep in mind, Wickard established that growing a tomato in your back yard and giving it to your spouse on a salad that you grew in your back yard was interstate commerce and CJ points out above that making the bouncy-bouncy is interstate commerce.
What isn’t?
And then we can get back to whether using your credit card to buy something from Amazon might be.Report
Well assuming i have point it’s that everything is interstate commerce now. If we didn’t have a wickard way back then we probably would have got something like it in the last couple decades. Maybe wickard was brought about time travelers from now setting up a legal framework in the past.Report
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you’re talking to jaybird like he’s spinning crazy stupid theories about bullshit things that nobody would ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever actually do
he’s talking about legal interpretations that actually exist
the fact that you don’t know about these things doesn’t mean they don’t exist
“but those things sound stupid!” yes! you are right! you are absolutely right!Report
I know about those things. I’m asking about the current internet commerce/ credit card model. It seems to me that all that is interstate commerce and nobody is really addressing my question.Report
Wildly speculating – of Wickard didn’t exist, and interstate commerce actually were treated as commerce across state lines – there would exist today a greater range of options for strictly intrastate commerce.
More businesses with a web presence would accept orders by postal mail from in-state customers. Intrastate payment methods such as state-specific credit cards would exist. Etc. Because there would be some benefit to them.Report
But would that happen. I can’t see many businesses wanting to operate an envelope and actual paper as opposed to a neat clean always perfectly functions internet/app ( well mostly perfectly functioning) I think some state, hi Delaware, will always craft their laws to become home to credit cards which gets back to using a financial instrument based in a tiny mid Atlantic coast state seems to make everything interstate commerce.Report
odd thought: what if national-level businesses were, in fact, enabled by Wickard, in the sense that if the Federal Government could assert that its authority stretched even to private activity then there was no reason to not be that way?
That is, if everything I do is subject to Federal regulations, then there’s no added cost to me offering my products for sale nationwide; I already have to comply with Federal Government rules, so I’m not having to increase my costs in order to sell things to other states.
On the other hand, if there’s Federal rules that I don’t have to comply with so long as I stay in the state, then there is a cost to getting bigger, and I might not be able to pay it (sort of like a craft brewery or cottage-license baker trying to grow beyond a certain amount of sales.)Report
everything is interstate commerce now
Yes.
This includes growing a tomato in your back yard and eating it.
This includes having sex with your wife.
And, if asked for a single example of something that is *NOT* interstate commerce, we cannot come up with a single example.
This is absurd.Report
Exactly, under the logic of Wickard, the only reason X is not currently regulated by the federal government is because the federal government has not seen fit to enact regulation of X.
This is the problem with expansive definitions of government power, at some point, government is going to use it in a manner that someone finds irksome at best, and a rank injustice at worst.
Wickard is a decision that needs fixing, and the court, right or left, seem uninterested in fixing it.Report
It’s worse than that. We don’t have a populace that believes that there’s anything wrong with this state of affairs.
Whenever I recommend something like Federalism For Real This Time, you wouldn’t believe the strange bedfellows that show up to explain to me that Trump *SHOULD* have the power he’s wielding.Report
Again you aren’t answering the question i raised about Amazon, credit cards and internet commerce.Report
I could easily see how someone in Colorado, buying a product from someone in Texas, using a credit card from Delaware, using a product from the internet using a company with its main bank of servers in Washington, would count as Interstate Commerce, yes.
I mean, in a debate, I’d much rather be on the side arguing that it was than on the side arguing that it wasn’t.
Which brings me back to the question:
Is a farmer growing wheat in his own fields and feeding it to his own horses Interstate Commerce?Report
Well that is my point. Regardless ( or irrgardless if you are a barbarian) of 90 years ago things changed with the internet to the point where almost everything is interstatey. In some ways wickard is irrelevant given the present.Report
You use the word “irrelevant” where I would use the phrase “established precedent”.Report
You think i’m talking mostly about Wickard when i talking about now. I’m not asking about precedent. I’m talking about our current enviro, not grinding my gears on wickard. I’m not getting into the legal bits just offering an observation about the current economy.Report
Unfortunately, the present exists as it does because it is built upon the foundation of the past.Report
SMH….yeah i watch Dr Who, i know how time works.Report
Then the claim that we don’t have to take Wickard into account for how stuff is now because, probably, the same stuff would have happened is, at best, an extraordinary claim and the burden of proof for this claim is on you. You don’t just get to assume it.
Wickard, for example, was mentioned during Gonzales v. Raich.
We can’t pretend Wickard doesn’t matter anymore.Report
Dragonfrog addressed this particular point above.
And did a really good job, might I add.Report
If the interstate commerce power allows everything to be regulated, explain Sebelius, the Obamacare case.Report
“Judicial Activism”.Report
IANAL, so the usual caveats apply… Wickard says producing and consuming a thing for which there is an interstate market — wheat — is participation and can be regulated. Sebelius says that neither producing nor consuming a thing — medical insurance — is not participation, so can’t be regulated on Commerce Clause grounds.
My suspicion is that Wickard arose, as others have mentioned, due to a combination of special circumstances — the Great Depression, WWII, and a federal government that still depended on “command and control” regulatory strategies. The last one is important. Today we (attempt to) stabilize wheat prices by paying farmers to take land out of production, with payments set to an implicit desired wheat price. Assuming the market is indeed a distributed optimization algorithm, the amount of land in production should yield a market price equal to the implicit price in the payments. Idle-land payments put us back in another part of Sebelius — Congress can spend its money on whatever it chooses.Report
Sebelius is not a Commerce Clause case. It is an interpretation of the Religious Freedom and Restoration Act.Report