Lying, misrepresentations, distortions, demagoguery, corruptions, etc are bad things in our discourse. And if in some circumstances such things seem unavoidable or necessary, they should never be entirely routinized.
Unfortunately in America things have deteriorated to the point where such things are foundational to the practice of contemporary liberalism. This is a bad thing, certainly for America as a whole, and maybe even for the libs as well.
Therefore, as the liberal Kelsey Piper argues, we should collectively repudiate those libs who have particularly corrupted our politics in the context of the last Presidential election, in the twitter thread mentioned below:
Kelsey is in particular talking about the President Biden's inner circle who were most responsible in promotion if the distortion that President Biden's mental strength was perfectly acceptable.
And certainly we should be faulting those people but in addition, I think we should also punish in the same way those who promoted the central distortions of the Biden era: inflation, transgenderism, and migrations, pundits and pols both.
In this way we can hope to end the sleazier practices of lib politics and return truth and honest discourse to prevalence in America.
I dunno, it seems pretty clear to me. I support the President retaliating against Perkins Coie for its misconduct against the best interest of America.
That said, I do want to elaborate a bit on the big-picture subject of the the thread, specifically a tweet-thread from a woman much more lib than me, to describe what meaningful accountability for Demos might look like.
x.com/KelseyTuoc/status/1898835873338425733
That, because the essence of the Demo message last cycle was to lie to the American people, that we should demonstrate a new sense of purpose as a party and to that end we should punish the individuals most clearly responsible.
It really is a meaningful act, unlike joining in on Al Green's clownshow which Radley Balko wants. The only thing wrong with it, as Kelsey describes it, is that her case is narrowed to Biden's cognitive decline (and she only mentions political figures).
If we extend her thread to the pundit class, as well as subject matter, ie, trans, Biden-era southern border migrations, and inflation, there's a lotta lotta libs and Demos who are culpable.
It would be very difficult for the Demos to actually execute on this, but somehow if they did, it would be a number of actions where collectively the Demos could hope to be a legitimate vessel of public trust instead of what they have been.
I personally am not holding out very much hope of this, but if a lib ever says there's nothing the Demos could do, just realize that he's wrong.
Well yeah. In America we have the Republican Party and the Democratic Party. The Republicans are not the Democrats and the Democrats are not the Republicans. The are not situated in the same place, and they don't have the same problems.
Libs want to believe the GOP isn't worthy of winning, or governing. Unfortunately for them, in reality that's not the GOP's problem. That's the Demos' problem, as we talked about above.
GOP's problem is about how we break the sclerosis of PMC-entitled governance while preserving the appearance and reality of normality of government, the economy, and culture.
Demos are finding it hard now to a significant extent because for them to address their issues given their situation would require them to really look hard at their situation and how they got there and it's just too painful for them.
I see why the choir would like them… but we’re trying to get people back. I’d give Koz a similar speech about how this isn’t about people who voted for Trump either.
Yeah yeah. And I'd tell you that trying to get people back is a bad thing to be about in the first place. I did tell you that in fact.
Trying to get people back is in the abstract a reasonable thing to want to do for a political party but we're not in the abstract. For the American Democratic Party in 2025, it's a misperception of its situation and an attempt to address a problem at the wrong level.
The problem of the Democratic Party is who they are, what their intentions are, want they want. Who the Demos are caused what what the Demos did (at the policy level) which caused what the Demos said (at the message level).
Trying to improve the circumstances of their situation at the message level without addressing who they are and what they did, that's not the solution to anything, _that_ is the problem.
A problem, I should note, that you correctly criticized them for:
The one thing I might incorporate from his suggestion might be a little contrition “okay, we got over our skis… we understand why we were a less attractive choice and we’ve changed. Here’s how.”
Going thru all the little tactics and all the little flaws of the Demos' message and persona
(and all of its successes for that matter) is a stupid exercise. This iteration of the Democratic Party is _supposed to lose_. It might be different for a different party.
Therefore, the challenge for the Democrats right now is how to be a different party that's worthy of winning, instead of how to be the same party just more electorally successful.
Yeah yeah yeah this is all bullsiht, at a fundamental level. This is more clear when you look at the Radley Balko link below together with Jaybird's comment to see the full panoramic sense of the failure of lib in America.
At this point in his career, Radley Balko is a certified grade A TDS mouth-foamer, and Jaybird is well, Jaybird. But in this case they share the same bad intention. That is, we should be inclined to create scenarios where Demos _lose_, not where they win. _That_ is in the best interest of America, and maybe at some level the best interest of Demos as well.
To strategize in favor of the Democratic Party now, is to empower libs' contemporary corruption: that the larger populace and voting base is reduced to be a target is libs' message manipulation, instead of the final authority of legitimacy that all factions must be accountable to.
But beyond that, this premise is simply objectively wrong as well. Ie, the idea that it's the libs who really have the real clue as to what's going on the Trump Administration whereas the actual voters are mindless NPCs, it's simply not true.
As it relates to trans, as it relates to southern border migrations, as it relates to inflation, Middle East, Biden's cognitive decline, Kamala's emptyheadedness, in each of these things in addition to being sovereign the voters were also just plain right and the libs were and are wrong.
Therefore, in order to imagine the legitimate rebirth of Democratic Party and the mainstream American leftism associated with it, libs should not be talking about what they should do or say in order to improve their standing in public opinion. Instead, they should be thinking about who they should _be_ in order to be a legitimate vessel of public trust.
And to that end, they need to have a real public accounting of all the distortions and misrepresentations they have been a part of, going back to at least one full Presidential cycle.
"I, as lib, misrepresented the extent of President Biden's fitness in office and I am sorry. As a consequence the voters fairly and accurately repudiated my representations and my candidate."
Rinse, lather, repeat.
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Hmm ok, let me try again.
Lying, misrepresentations, distortions, demagoguery, corruptions, etc are bad things in our discourse. And if in some circumstances such things seem unavoidable or necessary, they should never be entirely routinized.
Unfortunately in America things have deteriorated to the point where such things are foundational to the practice of contemporary liberalism. This is a bad thing, certainly for America as a whole, and maybe even for the libs as well.
Therefore, as the liberal Kelsey Piper argues, we should collectively repudiate those libs who have particularly corrupted our politics in the context of the last Presidential election, in the twitter thread mentioned below:
https://x.com/KelseyTuoc/status/1898835873338425733
Kelsey is in particular talking about the President Biden's inner circle who were most responsible in promotion if the distortion that President Biden's mental strength was perfectly acceptable.
And certainly we should be faulting those people but in addition, I think we should also punish in the same way those who promoted the central distortions of the Biden era: inflation, transgenderism, and migrations, pundits and pols both.
In this way we can hope to end the sleazier practices of lib politics and return truth and honest discourse to prevalence in America.
I dunno, it seems pretty clear to me. I support the President retaliating against Perkins Coie for its misconduct against the best interest of America.
That said, I do want to elaborate a bit on the big-picture subject of the the thread, specifically a tweet-thread from a woman much more lib than me, to describe what meaningful accountability for Demos might look like.
x.com/KelseyTuoc/status/1898835873338425733
That, because the essence of the Demo message last cycle was to lie to the American people, that we should demonstrate a new sense of purpose as a party and to that end we should punish the individuals most clearly responsible.
It really is a meaningful act, unlike joining in on Al Green's clownshow which Radley Balko wants. The only thing wrong with it, as Kelsey describes it, is that her case is narrowed to Biden's cognitive decline (and she only mentions political figures).
If we extend her thread to the pundit class, as well as subject matter, ie, trans, Biden-era southern border migrations, and inflation, there's a lotta lotta libs and Demos who are culpable.
It would be very difficult for the Demos to actually execute on this, but somehow if they did, it would be a number of actions where collectively the Demos could hope to be a legitimate vessel of public trust instead of what they have been.
I personally am not holding out very much hope of this, but if a lib ever says there's nothing the Demos could do, just realize that he's wrong.
Me
Well yeah. In America we have the Republican Party and the Democratic Party. The Republicans are not the Democrats and the Democrats are not the Republicans. The are not situated in the same place, and they don't have the same problems.
Libs want to believe the GOP isn't worthy of winning, or governing. Unfortunately for them, in reality that's not the GOP's problem. That's the Demos' problem, as we talked about above.
GOP's problem is about how we break the sclerosis of PMC-entitled governance while preserving the appearance and reality of normality of government, the economy, and culture.
Demos are finding it hard now to a significant extent because for them to address their issues given their situation would require them to really look hard at their situation and how they got there and it's just too painful for them.
Yeah yeah. And I'd tell you that trying to get people back is a bad thing to be about in the first place. I did tell you that in fact.
Trying to get people back is in the abstract a reasonable thing to want to do for a political party but we're not in the abstract. For the American Democratic Party in 2025, it's a misperception of its situation and an attempt to address a problem at the wrong level.
The problem of the Democratic Party is who they are, what their intentions are, want they want. Who the Demos are caused what what the Demos did (at the policy level) which caused what the Demos said (at the message level).
Trying to improve the circumstances of their situation at the message level without addressing who they are and what they did, that's not the solution to anything, _that_ is the problem.
A problem, I should note, that you correctly criticized them for:
Going thru all the little tactics and all the little flaws of the Demos' message and persona
(and all of its successes for that matter) is a stupid exercise. This iteration of the Democratic Party is _supposed to lose_. It might be different for a different party.
Therefore, the challenge for the Democrats right now is how to be a different party that's worthy of winning, instead of how to be the same party just more electorally successful.
Yeah yeah yeah this is all bullsiht, at a fundamental level. This is more clear when you look at the Radley Balko link below together with Jaybird's comment to see the full panoramic sense of the failure of lib in America.
At this point in his career, Radley Balko is a certified grade A TDS mouth-foamer, and Jaybird is well, Jaybird. But in this case they share the same bad intention. That is, we should be inclined to create scenarios where Demos _lose_, not where they win. _That_ is in the best interest of America, and maybe at some level the best interest of Demos as well.
To strategize in favor of the Democratic Party now, is to empower libs' contemporary corruption: that the larger populace and voting base is reduced to be a target is libs' message manipulation, instead of the final authority of legitimacy that all factions must be accountable to.
But beyond that, this premise is simply objectively wrong as well. Ie, the idea that it's the libs who really have the real clue as to what's going on the Trump Administration whereas the actual voters are mindless NPCs, it's simply not true.
As it relates to trans, as it relates to southern border migrations, as it relates to inflation, Middle East, Biden's cognitive decline, Kamala's emptyheadedness, in each of these things in addition to being sovereign the voters were also just plain right and the libs were and are wrong.
Therefore, in order to imagine the legitimate rebirth of Democratic Party and the mainstream American leftism associated with it, libs should not be talking about what they should do or say in order to improve their standing in public opinion. Instead, they should be thinking about who they should _be_ in order to be a legitimate vessel of public trust.
And to that end, they need to have a real public accounting of all the distortions and misrepresentations they have been a part of, going back to at least one full Presidential cycle.
"I, as lib, misrepresented the extent of President Biden's fitness in office and I am sorry. As a consequence the voters fairly and accurately repudiated my representations and my candidate."
Rinse, lather, repeat.